TheChimp Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Fewell didn't choose Fitzpatrick over Old Footsteps because he thought he had more SKILLS than Trent.
freeagentqb Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Look at the difference in OL play when Rob Johnson was behind center vs when Flutie was QB. I recall the line looking terrible with RJ giving up multiple sacks per game. Flutie enters and the sack total went down dramatically. So a good QB helps the OL and vice-versa....
Cynical Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Your comments are good, and I hope I can answer them.Actually, "never learned to adapt" is almost as strong as headstrong as "ruined him". Actually, in his rookie year, the start of the 2008 season, and even the first 2 games this year, it looked like he was adapting pretty well. OK, the adaptation wasn't complete, but he was already ahead of JP and Todd Collins.[1] By "ruining him", I mean that following the concussion, he was coached (or not coached) and/or was allowed to play with a debilitating injury such that his performance declined and would be difficult or impossible to restore his ability.[2] If the negative posters want to toss him away, they've essentially said that TE went from a solid roster spot to useless to the team. That sounds like ruined to me. No one seems to want to explain why he went from promising to inept.[3] I don't believe his record shows that he can't adapt. My theory is he's been put in a position where he can't succeed, nor advance. This is also true of Fitzpatrick. Despite a few early successes. His performance isn't much better. And yes, he checks down often, too.[4] 1.) You yourself admit the adaptation was NOT complete. End of story. Everything else is irrelevant. Just because he was ahead of JP and Todd Collins still does not PROVE Trent Edwards is a starting quality QB. 2.) Pure speculation. Medical experts are divided whether PCS even exists. The ones who do think it exists admit it is hard to diagnose, and there is more than one theory as to what causes it. Trent Edwards may or may not have it, but you are discussing from the position he does suffer from it without any proof that he actually does. 3.) Simple. The reason he went from promising to inept is because he never fully adapted. Defenses are not static. Once playerB figures out how to 'stop' playerA, playerB will continue to do so until playerA adapts. 4.) The reason Fitz is on his third team and has been a backup his entire short career is he is just not good enough. Coaching has very little to do with it at this point. However, despite Fitz's shortcomings, AVP has essentially stated he can run a more complex offense with Fitz than he can with Trent. That tells me Trent is not getting "it". To put it another way, Trent is not adapting. Yes, it could be possible, but with the abyssmal play of the rent-a-player o-line, the no-huddle disaster, it's hard to judge. Actually, if he's good enough to be a back-up, why should we let him go? He might as well compete for a roster spot again next year. With Fitz's lack of accuracy, he's not going to stay long either. Why let Trent go? Because his own team mates have given up on him. 'Forcing' Trent on the players will not help his situation, and may make it worse. At this point, Trent's potential upside has shrunk, and he now carries more risk. The risk being possible PCS, and player dissatisfaction in the locker room. So the question is: Is Trent's potential (being a back up QB) worth the risk (PCS, team mate dissatisfaction) he carries? IMHO, no. Not for a back up. The Bills can always find another back up QB. You are right. There are many ex-players who stayed in the game to long. If he still has PCS from that hit in Arizona, I believe that should be made public, only so that he is treated fairly, and not berated like he never deserved to be on an NFL team as some posters have said. If PCS caused his problems, making it public would serve notice to concussion effects (a important topic in sports today) and put the blame on the Bills medical and/or coaching staff for letting him play too soon. Here's the problem. Even medical experts cannot agree if PCS exists. As I said before, the ones that do think PCS exists admit it is hard to diagnose. And you want the Bills coaching and/or medical staff to be held accountable for "missing" it? Up to this point, you keep arguing from the point TE is (or potentially is) suffering from PCS, yet you offer no proof as such. And before you run around trying to find evidence to support your position, here is what the Mayo clinic thinks about sports related PCS: Sports-related concussions seem to be less likely to result in post-concussion syndrome. PCS Risk Factors However, most regular places of work do not hire and fire us regulars at the rate of the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB hires and fires players, coaches, and upper tier front office staff. Plus, our job performance doesn't get discussed on message boards and opinionated by mindless sports reporters (yes, I'm talking of the Buffalo News) The first sentence is true. But I would counter most regular people are not being paid hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year to participate in a career that is finite in length. Let me ask you a question, would you be willing to pay someone millions of dollars a year and wait 10 years for that person to or not to develop? I'll disagree with your second sentence. If you think nobody is questioning your work performance (either as an individual or as a group) on the Internet, you would be mistaken. Go to any website that offers you the opportunity to express your opinion or write your review. Pick up the local paper in any major metro area. Go to the dining section and read the reviews. The performance of the wait staff and the cooks are being opinionated.
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 You want Edwards job because he sucks?? Forget Edwards and his hundreds of thousands of dollars. Take Aaron Maybin instead. You get $5M a year -- far more than Edwards. And you get the opportunity to get an offside penalty on a recovered onside kick return, that nullifies any comeback opportunity by your team. Way to go first round draft pick! Showin' us LOTSA promise on the field If we draft MIchael Oher ,,,, instead of Maybin, and I don't want to hear about "VALUE", then maybe he doesn't have to check down all the time. Not saying he would or wouldn't but without LEGITIMATE NFL COACHING and LINEMAN, very few of our players are going to reach their potential. I really have no idea what he would do with real coaching, but let's remember one thing, to personnally put down a guy for not succeeding,well guess what, he DIDN'T DRAFT HIMSELF !!. Blame the people drafting him and the people not competent enough to develop him... ALONG with the player. It's a team effort of failure for him.
BillsfaninFl Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 If we draft MIchael Oher ,,,, instead of Maybin, and I don't want to hear about "VALUE", then maybe he doesn't have to check down all the time. Not saying he would or wouldn't but without LEGITIMATE NFL COACHING and LINEMAN, very few of our players are going to reach their potential. I really have no idea what he would do with real coaching, but let's remember one thing, to personnally put down a guy for not succeeding,well guess what, he DIDN'T DRAFT HIMSELF !!. Blame the people drafting him and the people not competent enough to develop him... ALONG with the player. It's a team effort of failure for him. How are we doing? Have we arrived at a consensus yet? I'm soon going to be celebrating my second birthday since this subject was raised and I'm afraid I may not live to hear the last of it. How about if we just agree to disagree?
loyal2dagame Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 If we draft MIchael Oher ,,,, instead of Maybin, and I don't want to hear about "VALUE", then maybe he doesn't have to check down all the time. Not saying he would or wouldn't but without LEGITIMATE NFL COACHING and LINEMAN, very few of our players are going to reach their potential. I really have no idea what he would do with real coaching, but let's remember one thing, to personnally put down a guy for not succeeding,well guess what, he DIDN'T DRAFT HIMSELF !!. Blame the people drafting him and the people not competent enough to develop him... ALONG with the player. It's a team effort of failure for him. right. and if collins didnt have to live up to kelly, if hobert studied his playbook, if flutie didnt get pulled going into the titans playoff game, if johnson performed up to his contract, if bledsoe had more time to throw, if jp was allowed to scramble and use his ability, if trent had a line so he could complete more dump-offs, if fitz was more accurate.......... are you seeing the freaking pattern here? our qb's since kelly have all sucked. end of story. the reason we make excuses for them is because ALL BILLS FANS LONG FOR THE 10-15YR FRANCHISE QB TO LATCH ON TO!
DFITZ1 Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 1.) You yourself admit the adaptation was NOT complete. End of story. Everything else is irrelevant. Just because he was ahead of JP and Todd Collins still does not PROVE Trent Edwards is a starting quality QB. 2.) Pure speculation. Medical experts are divided whether PCS even exists. The ones who do think it exists admit it is hard to diagnose, and there is more than one theory as to what causes it. Trent Edwards may or may not have it, but you are discussing from the position he does suffer from it without any proof that he actually does. 3.) Simple. The reason he went from promising to inept is because he never fully adapted. Defenses are not static. Once playerB figures out how to 'stop' playerA, playerB will continue to do so until playerA adapts. 4.) The reason Fitz is on his third team and has been a backup his entire short career is he is just not good enough. Coaching has very little to do with it at this point. However, despite Fitz's shortcomings, AVP has essentially stated he can run a more complex offense with Fitz than he can with Trent. That tells me Trent is not getting "it". To put it another way, Trent is not adapting. Why let Trent go? Because his own team mates have given up on him. 'Forcing' Trent on the players will not help his situation, and may make it worse. At this point, Trent's potential upside has shrunk, and he now carries more risk. The risk being possible PCS, and player dissatisfaction in the locker room. So the question is: Is Trent's potential (being a back up QB) worth the risk (PCS, team mate dissatisfaction) he carries? IMHO, no. Not for a back up. The Bills can always find another back up QB. Here's the problem. Even medical experts cannot agree if PCS exists. As I said before, the ones that do think PCS exists admit it is hard to diagnose. And you want the Bills coaching and/or medical staff to be held accountable for "missing" it? Up to this point, you keep arguing from the point TE is (or potentially is) suffering from PCS, yet you offer no proof as such. And before you run around trying to find evidence to support your position, here is what the Mayo clinic thinks about sports related PCS: PCS Risk Factors The first sentence is true. But I would counter most regular people are not being paid hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars a year to participate in a career that is finite in length. Let me ask you a question, would you be willing to pay someone millions of dollars a year and wait 10 years for that person to or not to develop? I'll disagree with your second sentence. If you think nobody is questioning your work performance (either as an individual or as a group) on the Internet, you would be mistaken. Go to any website that offers you the opportunity to express your opinion or write your review. Pick up the local paper in any major metro area. Go to the dining section and read the reviews. The performance of the wait staff and the cooks are being opinionated. I have a feeling our exchange will conclude that any evaluation on TE will be inconclusive. Your link does say teh post-concussion syndrome not a sure thing from sports related injury; though I will point out that it's possible he was brought back too early while he still had lingering effects of a concussion. Am I sure, no. But after seeing the Sabres Tim Connelly and Pat LaFontaine lose entire seasons due to concussions (though not their firsts), plus a neighbor take a year to recover from one, the possibility is there. But the thing that does bother me is that if the demise is entirely TE, as many posters like to point out (i.e. flame), we are condemned to repeat the 3 year cycle of QB's (year 1 - great hope, year 2 - isn't working out, year 3 - bench and throw out with the trash) until the Bills braintrust (talk about a group with PCS) changes its way of building, coaching, and sustaining a football team. Every time some sportswriter bashes TE, its only a couple sentences later that he says he gets no help from the o-line. Well, which one is it, is the QB unable to adapt to the o-line, or is the o-line impeding the QB's ability to lead the team on the field. Since Flutie departed, the QB has been blamed more than the o-line, and teh TE saga is the latest example. My worst fear is that the Bills will try to do a TO type signing on an experienced QB to make fans think all will be well, then draft and FA sign cheap or mediocre on the o-line (mainly RT and LT), and the cycle will repeat. Hopefully the latest firings and fan displeasure will end that cycle. When Parcells rebuilt teams, he started rebuilding in the trenches and that brought success. You're right that TE's been used up here, but the organization did play a part in his downfall, and if those causes aren't corrected, it'll be another decade of mediocrity. Just throwing him out with the trash, like many posters suggest, ignores the core problems this organization has. Where I live we see a lot of teh Giants, and I'll tell you, those early Eli Manning years looked a lot like TE. I'm not saying TE is Eli Manning, but growing pains and regression is a part of becoming an NFL QB. The Kelly's and Marino's, etc are the exception (which is why they are in the HOF). The next tier down go through a rougher start. The rookie pay in pro sports is driven by a few, and must be accepted by many. Once one owner breaks the bank, others must follow suit. It's one reason why watch major league sports on TV, not in the stadiums, much to my regret. While I love the Bills and Sabres, the financial lavishness of major league sports sickens me (would these 1st rounders starve if they were paid a million less they signed for!?). I hate sayiong it, but'll be teh demise of the Bills unless NYS gets smart and makes upstate NY economically viable again.
Beerball Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 I'm just happy to be around a bunch of folks who all agree that Flutie sucked. No matter what else happens, we all agree on that one thing.
DFITZ1 Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 I'm just happy to be around a bunch of folks who all agree that Flutie sucked. No matter what else happens, we all agree on that one thing. If he was so bad, why was he the last winning QB the Bills had. I hope you weren't part of the crew that loved Rob Johnson. He's the one who ushered in eth age of mediocrity.
The Senator Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 I'm just happy to be around a bunch of folks who all agree that Flutie sucked. No matter what else happens, we all agree on that one thing. Blasphemy!
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