I find it sad

[trolls_r_us]

Ralph is probably praying for a Christmas gift of 2 or 3 more wins.

 

That way, we can keep everyone the same and say we're headed in the right direction.

 

Come on people! He's 91! Do you truly believe he is going to OVERHAUL this team?

 

Last time we had this conversation he gave up and ended up promoting from within, remember?

[blzrul]

Who wants Holmgren? He was a complete bust at the position in Seattle which is why they took it away from him and made him coach only.

[billnutinphoenix]

It's not a race. I don't care when we hire a GM, I care who we hire for GM. Bruce Allen wasn't some crowning success in Tampa - he took a team only a year removed from a Super Bowl victory, and managed no playoff wins. He failed to acquire a quarterback in a number of tries. He burned first round picks (and high ones) on Michael Clayton, Cadillac Williams, and Gaines Adams. I'm not impressed.

 

Even Holmgren hasn't scored a hit in quite a while. He was a better coach than GM, and was relieved of his job in Seattle and then rejected when he tried to get it back.

 

 

I feel Holmgren has been a bust as a GM...As a coach, that's a different story...

[Tcali]

If the Browns sign a GM before we do, something is wrong. Rebuilding the Browns is a colossal job. In my opinion, our franchise has more upside than the Browns. Currently, we have better players and I feel it wouldn't take a GM too long to succeed with our Bills. I'm just wondering why Holmgren wouldn't prefer us over the lowly Browns. Then again, those lowly Browns beat us this season. I still haven't gotten over that one.

most things the Bills do are sad. But not hiring Holmgren as a GM isnt one of them. -Why on earth do people think that Holmgren would be a good GM?? His proven record? His record of failure as a coach GM combo??

dont get it

[Adam]

Three straight losses to Cleveland.......

[apuszczalowski]

Who wants Holmgren? He was a complete bust at the position in Seattle which is why they took it away from him and made him coach only.

But, But , But, He is a big name and then ESPN would talk about the Bills more giving the team higher grades in their oppinion and maybe giving the Bills some more time on their shows!

 

no one knows for sure why Holmgren said "No Thanks" to Buffalo. Maybe he doesn't like what he has heard about Ralph, Maybe he likes the idea of taking over full control of a Team (The Browns), maybe he is using the Browns as a way of negotiating a better deal in Seattle (He did meet with them and not agree to anything), maybe he doesn't like the fans here in Buffalo, or maybe the Bills only asked him if he would be interested in being JUST the Coach and not give him full control of the team? Maybe he only wants to be a president/Czar/GM and not coach? He had his role as GM removed in Seattle aftera few years cause he wasn't good

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

most things the Bills do are sad. But not hiring Holmgren as a GM isnt one of them. -Why on earth do people think that Holmgren would be a good GM?? His proven record? His record of failure as a coach GM combo??

dont get it

 

They have heard of him.

 

Holmgren had a Scotty Bowmanesque tenure at Seattle... he went there thinking as a successful coach he should be a GM too... but flopped. He had renewed success when he was just HC.

[JohnC]

I agree that "rock star" HC's are no guarantee of success. I'd like to get an offensive minded coach who has the ability to find a DC who can stop people with a tough defense that reflects some toughness and size.

 

I also reserve the right to complain about what is wrong with the franchise, all the while offering some solutions to reversing their course. You don't lose 10 years running unless you're ignoring the essentials: QB, OL, and DL. What are your answers to the Bills current woes and coach search?

 

Personally, I'd like to see a consultant used to head a search for a GM. OR, Russ can find a GM who is tasked with hiring the next coach. Then, draft heavy OT, DT, and DE unless a QB is available. But just don't give me the same song and dance in 2010. If I hear the word continuity, that's it.

 

BillsVet, When was the last time another franchise hired someone from our front office? I can't recall. The clueless owner has driven out top notch front office talent such as Bill Polian, Butler/A.J. Smith and retained incompetents such as John Guy and Tom Modrak. Their body of work over the past decade is the biggest indictment against them. The owner bringing in Marv Levy set the franchise back further after the Donahoe malaise.

 

Whoever is hired as a GM has a daunting task in rebuilding the scouting department in both the pro and college ranks. I don't expect miracles from a new GM. What I want more than anything is to have some hope that a competent person is making good decisions which wil eventually allow the team to be competitive.

 

The present organizational structure is an absurdity. It was designed to fail on the field and still make money. The owner's active involvement in the organization has crippled this franchise. It's time for him and his cronies (Littman) to back off and let football people run the football side of the operation.

[Gugny]

Look at it this way. Holmgren already said "no thanks" to the Bills so it's not like we missed out on him. Second, the only candidates you can hire now are not working. That limits your choices greatly. The Bills already said GM interviews begin after Xmas. Is the idea to hire someone first or someone good? BTW the Rooney rule applies to GMs too. Looks like Cleveland and Washington are going to fined fir their hasty hires.

 

PTR

That Rooney rule is disgusting. As far as Holmgren goes, I think it says a lot that he wouldn't even discuss anything with Buffalo. I found it classy that he didn't bother wasting his, or the Bills' time, though. It's clear he wouldn't even give coming to Buffalo a second thought, and I'd just like to know why. I mean, there's plenty of obvious reasons why, but the fact that he's "this close" to going to Cleveland ... that's what makes me wonder. Cleveland is the only team (maybe Detroit) that's anywhere NEAR as dysfunctional as the Bills. But Holmgren obviously thinks we win the dysfunctional contest, hands down. The only thing I can possibly think, is that it's either Ralph Wilson himself ... or the fact that Ralph Wilson could pass away on any given day, and the uncertainty of the team after he's gone. Either way, it doesn't look like any legitimate, proven GM is even going to step foot on One Bills Drive. Ugh.

[Nanker]

BillsVet, When was the last time another franchise hired someone from our front office? I can't recall. The clueless owner has driven out top notch front office talent such as Bill Polian, Butler/A.J. Smith and retained incompetents such as John Guy and Tom Modrak. Their body of work over the past decade is the biggest indictment against them. The owner bringing in Marv Levy set the franchise back further after the Donahoe malaise.

 

Whoever is hired as a GM has a daunting task in rebuilding the scouting department in both the pro and college ranks. I don't expect miracles from a new GM. What I want more than anything is to have some hope that a competent person is making good decisions which wil eventually allow the team to be competitive.

 

The present organizational structure is an absurdity. It was designed to fail on the field and still make money. The owner's active involvement in the organization has crippled this franchise. It's time for him and his cronies (Littman) to back off and let football people run the football side of the operation.

bull ****.

First you say, "When was the last time another franchise hired someone from our front office? I can't recall." Then in the next sentence you name three of them.

Chuck Knox came to town and instituted a system that was successful by clearing out the the ramshackle FO mess. First he got the team out of the Blesto scouting combine, then he hooked up with San Fran and I think one other team to pool their scouting talents. Before he arrived in Buffalo, the scouting department records "were in a shoebox". No joke. The FO right now is far from the was it was before Knox got here.

There is hope.

[JohnC]

bull ****.

First you say, "When was the last time another franchise hired someone from our front office? I can't recall." Then in the next sentence you name three of them.

Chuck Knox came to town and instituted a system that was successful by clearing out the the ramshackle FO mess. First he got the team out of the Blesto scouting combine, then he hooked up with San Fran and I think one other team to pool their scouting talents. Before he arrived in Buffalo, the scouting department records "were in a shoebox". No joke. The FO right now is far from the was it was before Knox got here.

There is hope.

 

Did you read what my comments were? I said the quality people who were with the Bills were driven out by the owner. Bill Polian and Butler/A.J. Smith were forced out or left of their own accord depending on how you interpret their relationship with the goofy owner. I stated they were very qualified people who had to leave the Ralph Wilson owned franchise. Are you disputing that issue?

 

As far as Chuck Knox he did do a superb job. He LEFT because he couldn't come to contractual terms with the tight fisted owner. He was with the Bills from 1978-1982. Because he couldn't come to terms with the owner he left to go to Seattle.

 

My point was very simple. The quality people who worked in the Bills' front office left and the incompetent front office staff such as John Guy and Tom Modrak have been with the Bills for a decade. The same period of time in which the Bills never made the playoffs.

 

If you are trying to make the case that our present front office is very effective then why is even our incompetent owner looking to replace the staff? Surely it isn't for their sterling quality performance! Are you aware that when you compare the front office of the Bills to the Chuck Knox era and prior you are looking back more than a quarter of a century. Times change and systems change.

[Red]

If the Browns sign a GM before we do, something is wrong. Rebuilding the Browns is a colossal job. In my opinion, our franchise has more upside than the Browns. Currently, we have better players and I feel it wouldn't take a GM too long to succeed with our Bills. I'm just wondering why Holmgren wouldn't prefer us over the lowly Browns. Then again, those lowly Browns beat us this season. I still haven't gotten over that one.

 

I agree.

 

I find it sad that the Redskins got the guy I was hoping we'd get in Bruce Allen.

 

Now Shanahan is rumored to be talking with Washington as both he and Allen are good friends.

 

Man, there was a time, when Buffalo was leading the league in getting better. Drafting Kelly, Thomas, Reed, Smith, trading for Bennett, signing L. Smith and Kenny Davis in the old Plan B. Step by step, the pieces of the eventual 4 consecutive Super Bowl teams were being accumulated.

 

The only thing that the Bills lead the league in now is mediocrity. And they sure are consistent at it.

 

If we don't have a real, proven GM and a front office minus Guy and Modrak, I'm done.

[Red]

Did you read what my comments were? I said the quality people who were with the Bills were driven out by the owner. Bill Polian and Butler/A.J. Smith were forced out or left of their own accord depending on how you interpret their relationship with the goofy owner. I stated they were very qualified people who had to leave the Ralph Wilson owned franchise. Are you disputing that issue?

 

As far as Chuck Knox he did do a superb job. He LEFT because he couldn't come to contractual terms with the tight fisted owner. He was with the Bills from 1978-1982. Because he couldn't come to terms with the owner he left to go to Seattle.

 

My point was very simple. The quality people who worked in the Bills' front office left and the incompetent front office staff such as John Guy and Tom Modrak have been with the Bills for a decade. The same period of time in which the Bills never made the playoffs.

 

If you are trying to make the case that our present front office is very effective then why is even our incompetent owner looking to replace the staff? Surely it isn't for their sterling quality performance! Are you aware that when you compare the front office of the Bills to the Chuck Knox era and prior you are looking back more than a quarter of a century. Times change and systems change.

 

Thank you for those comments, and the case you make is what I have been saying for over a year now.

 

Modrak and Guy are the 2 sole constants (with the exception of Wilson), during this decade of mediocrity.

 

We've had numerous coaches, quarterbacks, linemen, running backs, etc, etc, etc. The ONLY things to remain the same in terms of the football side are Modrak and Guy.

 

What have they proven, during this past DECADE, to warrant their continued employment?

 

They should have been fired when Jauron was sent packing.

[Nanker]

Did you read what my comments were? I said the quality people who were with the Bills were driven out by the owner. Bill Polian and Butler/A.J. Smith were forced out or left of their own accord depending on how you interpret their relationship with the goofy owner. I stated they were very qualified people who had to leave the Ralph Wilson owned franchise. Are you disputing that issue?

 

As far as Chuck Knox he did do a superb job. He LEFT because he couldn't come to contractual terms with the tight fisted owner. He was with the Bills from 1978-1982. Because he couldn't come to terms with the owner he left to go to Seattle.

 

My point was very simple. The quality people who worked in the Bills' front office left and the incompetent front office staff such as John Guy and Tom Modrak have been with the Bills for a decade. The same period of time in which the Bills never made the playoffs.

 

If you are trying to make the case that our present front office is very effective then why is even our incompetent owner looking to replace the staff? Surely it isn't for their sterling quality performance! Are you aware that when you compare the front office of the Bills to the Chuck Knox era and prior you are looking back more than a quarter of a century. Times change and systems change.

But you said, "When was the last time another franchise hired someone from our front office? I can't recall." Well, Polian, Butler and Smith come to mind. Just as you delineated in your second sentence.

Nobody - even Ralph's arguing that things are peachy at OBD. But too many asshats are killing Ralph for irrational reasons.

[Adam]

Who wants Holmgren? He was a complete bust at the position in Seattle which is why they took it away from him and made him coach only.

Wrong. He didn't have enough time to do both well at the same time.

[JohnC]

But you said, "When was the last time another franchise hired someone from our front office? I can't recall." Well, Polian, Butler and Smith come to mind. Just as you delineated in your second sentence.

Nobody - even Ralph's arguing that things are peachy at OBD. But too many asshats are killing Ralph for irrational reasons.

 

Driving quality people out and keeping incompetents in the organization is not an irrational reason for being critical of a foolish owner who presides over a second rate organization. Don't take my word for it, just examine the sad record.

[ThreeBillsDrive]

Even Holmgren hasn't scored a hit in quite a while. He was a better coach than GM, and was relieved of his job in Seattle and then rejected when he tried to get it back.

 

Yup, that's the key. Not all of these Head Coaches have the magic dust to be a GM.

 

How did Marv Levy work out as our GM in Buffalo? One of his biggest moves was bringing in his friend Dick Jauron as our head coach.