Guest dog14787 Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 First two games of the season, yes, I remember. Since, as you admit, the Oline has not gotten any better, though, perhaps we should examine how well Trent performed in the half-dozen games after Tampa? I'm not making excuses, but two concussions within a twelve month period is somewhat uncharted territory and you see the effect a concussion had on a championship caliber QB" Big Ben" whom has clearly lost his edge and confidence.( poor O-line play has effected both QB's)
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 First two games of the season, yes, I remember. Since, as you admit, the Oline has not gotten any better, though, perhaps we should examine how well Trent performed in the half-dozen games after Tampa? Substantially better than Fitzpatrick.
5 Wide Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Being at the home games, there were many opportunities where Evans and Owens were singled up, or were just plain open and the ball did not get delivered... and protection was not the issue on those plays
Maddog69 Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 After watching Matt Cassel play the Bills yesterday knowing how much the Chiefs have invested in him and watching our backup QB for a few games, the difference in the Caliber between TE, Fitz and Cassel is obvious in my opinion. Trent Edwards is better then Cassel, he's better then Fitzpatrick, probably better then half the QB's starting in this league. Trent Edwards regressed because we stuck him behind a pathetic O-line. Trent Edwards regressed because our coaching at the HC and OC position over the last 5 plus years has been pathetic. Trent Edwards regressed because of a self centered idiot we brought in at the WR position to supposedly help this ball club. Do you think the Steelers are looking for a new QB after losing to the pitiful Browns and giving up 8 sacks. Big Ben is a championship caliber QB coming back from a concussion and you see the results when playing behind a sub par O-line. Judging from our offense yesterday, we now have another defensive minded coach trying to run the offense. Fewell, if you are going to run a ball control, run it down your throat type offense which considering our O-line and youth at the QB position is not such a bad idea, put a QB in that can hit the broad side of a barn. If this is the offense you want to run, Captain Check down is the guy for you. Fitzpatrick fumbles and turns the ball over way to much and its a miracle we even beat the pitiful Chiefs in my opinion. Because of our O-line I really didn't want TE back onto the field this season, but TE can run a conservative offense. He's much more accurate and will not turn the ball over near as much. Ryan Fitzpatrick cannot beat the Pats, but in my opinion Trent Edwards can and he almost proved it once this year already. We should let TE play, Flame away... 1.) Trent did not regress. He was never any good to begin with. 2.) It does not matter what fans think about who is better. His teammates have no faith in him and do not want him on the field. Trent is done in Buffalo and the NFL. Next.
Guest dog14787 Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Being at the home games, there were many opportunities where Evans and Owens were singled up, or were just plain open and the ball did not get delivered... and protection was not the issue on those plays We have a birds eye view when watching a game from above and I've commented on this before, you need passing lanes to see and throw through which are real hard to come by when your O-line can't hold the line of scrimmage. In other words, you have to be standing in TE's shoes at his elevation to know what TE can actually see if you follow me. TE does not have enough continuity with the offense or his receivers to go by feel and put it up where he knows his receivers should be, so he doesn't take the chance.
Bufcomments Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 to the original poster.... Dude if sissy boy Edwards cant beat Cleveland at home what makes you think he can beat Brady and them? Even with Moss pouting? Only way Trent plays if Fitz gets hurt. End of story. Edwards wont even be on the club next year.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 1.) Trent did not regress. He was never any good to begin with. 2.) It does not matter what fans think about who is better. His teammates have no faith in him and do not want him on the field. Trent is done in Buffalo and the NFL. Next. What he said ^^^^^^^^ Agree 100% Although I wouldnt say he is done in the NFL, but hes done as a starter in the NFL. I seriously doubt we will see Trent anymore this year. Let me add something...one of things football coaches and players respect the least is fear out on that field. Trent plays tentative and scared which is why he gives up on plays so fast. Thats the one thing Fitzy does LIGHT YEARS better, and thats he doesnt give up on a play and isnt afraid to take a big hit to make a play. This is why Trent has lost this teams and staffs respect and vote of confidence. Fitz isnt very good at QB as he is wildly inconsistent, but he plays with so much more heart than Trent. If you lose the respect and confidence of your teammates, you are finished with that team. No one has given Trent any support since his benching, no one has voiced for him to start, no one has ever referred to him as a leader on this team. That right there speaks louder than his poor play on the field. You can blame whatever you want for why he is like this (aka, he always was, it was the staff, it was the O Line, it was consucssions, etc), but the fact remains, this is who he is right now. You can NOT win in the NFL playing the way he plays at this point. All Fitz is doing is keeping the seat warm for Brohm. Either Trent of Fitz will be gone next year, most likely Trent, and Brohm will be given every opportunity to take the #1 job. The remaining QB will back him up.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 We have a birds eye view when watching a game from above and I've commented on this before, you need passing lanes to see and throw through which are real hard to come by when your O-line can't hold the line of scrimmage. In other words, you have to be standing in TE's shoes at his elevation to know what TE can actually see if you follow me. TE does not have enough continuity with the offense or his receivers to go by feel and put it up where he knows his receivers should be, so he doesn't take the chance. This doesnt even make sense man...The QB does NOT need a "passing lane" to see open recievers the way you describe it. You are basically implying that for a QB to see an open wide reciever the O line has to somehow move the DL off to the side so there is nothing in his view. That is true if your QB is 4'11" tall, but other than that there is zero truth to what you just said. On every single play inside the pocket the QB has to see over the OL and DL battling it out...it happens on every play. Trent is tall enough to see over it. If Trent has to wait until the O line can pancake each player or move them all 5 yards out of the way so he can see down the field then he will not even be able to start on my Flag Football.
Guest dog14787 Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 This doesnt even make sense man...The QB does NOT need a "passing lane" to see open recievers the way you describe it. You are basically implying that for a QB to see an open wide reciever the O line has to somehow move the DL off to the side so there is nothing in his view. That is true if your QB is 4'11" tall, but other than that there is zero truth to what you just said. On every single play inside the pocket the QB has to see over the OL and DL battling it out...it happens on every play. Trent is tall enough to see over it. If Trent has to wait until the O line can pancake each player or move them all 5 yards out of the way so he can see down the field then he will not even be able to start on my Flag Football. The O-line doesn't have to knock the DL down, just form a pocket and not get shoved up into the QB's face so he can't step into his throw. Top sports analyst speak of having proper passing lanes all the time and I agree with them and respectfully disagree with you, at 6' 1" you cannot see over top of a 6' 3" O-linemen, especially with Defensive players coming in with their hands up and mean while they're throwing your O-line around like rag dolls, it just doesn't work.
pBills Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 The only way to have a chance against the Pats is with the big play and we all know TE is blind past 20 yards down the field. Yeah, still not buying that. Fans fell in love with the long ball when JP was hitting them fogetting that the checkdown or passes 20 yards or less matter... A LOT. Just ask Tom Brady, the Mannings, etc. Now I am not saying that he is anything like them yet, but to state that he's horrible based on the long ball is dumb.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 The O-line doesn't have to knock the DL down, just form a pocket and not get shoved up into the QB's face so he can't step into his throw. Top sports analyst speak of having proper passing lanes all the time and I agree with them and respectfully disagree with you, at 6' 1" you cannot see over top of a 6' 3" O-linemen, especially with Defensive players coming in with their hands up and mean while they're throwing your O-line around like rag dolls, it just doesn't work. Thats not what they mean by passing lanes though. You are talking about a need for the O Line to move guys out of the way so he can see essentially. First off, the DL players are rarely standing straight up as them and the O line and DL have are playing much shorter than their hieght to get leverage, especially in the middle. Speed rushers from the outside and blitzers will tend to play taller as they are trying to run around the blocks, but none the less, the majority of the battle in front of the QB will be played lower than their height which is why QB's who are short like Garcia and Flutie can still have success in the NFL despite being short. Passing lanes has more to do with angles, zones, etc than holes in the O Line to throw through. And, what about the fact that Fitz can see the wide open recievers despite playing behind an O Line that is worse than what Trent played behind earlier this year with all of our injuries now. If our O Line is worse now due to injuries, how come Fitz can still see the wide open WR's while Trent couldnt behind a better O line?
Steve in NY Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 What he said ^^^^^^^^ Agree 100% Although I wouldnt say he is done in the NFL, but hes done as a starter in the NFL. I seriously doubt we will see Trent anymore this year. Let me add something...one of things football coaches and players respect the least is fear out on that field. Trent plays tentative and scared which is why he gives up on plays so fast. Thats the one thing Fitzy does LIGHT YEARS better, and thats he doesnt give up on a play and isnt afraid to take a big hit to make a play. This is why Trent has lost this teams and staffs respect and vote of confidence. Fitz isnt very good at QB as he is wildly inconsistent, but he plays with so much more heart than Trent. If you lose the respect and confidence of your teammates, you are finished with that team. No one has given Trent any support since his benching, no one has voiced for him to start, no one has ever referred to him as a leader on this team. That right there speaks louder than his poor play on the field. You can blame whatever you want for why he is like this (aka, he always was, it was the staff, it was the O Line, it was consucssions, etc), but the fact remains, this is who he is right now. You can NOT win in the NFL playing the way he plays at this point. All Fitz is doing is keeping the seat warm for Brohm. Either Trent of Fitz will be gone next year, most likely Trent, and Brohm will be given every opportunity to take the #1 job. The remaining QB will back him up. I agree 100% You can talk all you want about Trent's talent but for whatever reason he plays scared and if he ever did have the respect of his teammates, he doesn't now. It was so frustrating to watch him play as a fan. Trent's pathetic play is a big reason we now have an interim coach.
Delete This Account Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Its to late, I can't stop, can't help myself... This is all pure speculation on my part, but I believe theres more behind this then meets the eye. I'm willing to bet there was a clash of heads and Hamdan defended Trent then lost his job because of it. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if T.O. was right in the middle of all the back stabbing and turmoil that tore this team apart. Fitz gives us the best chance to win my ass, Again all pure speculation on my part and everyone knows dog14787 has a wild imagination... dog: you're right. it's all pure speculation. hamdan was cut because the Bills went out and signed Brohm don't know if T.O. stabbed anyone in the back, there were some already questioning Edwards' play well before he was benched. Donte Whitner all but said it publicly when voicing his support for Vick. Fitz has worse numbers than Edwards, and yet has more wins than Edwards this year. he's doing far more with far less. and really, when you think about this all objectively, Fitzpatrick's ability to at least target T.O. and Lee is what this offense was supposed to be about, not checkdowns to RBs out of the backfield and 2-yard dumps to TEs. hey, i thought Edwards had potential a while ago, and decided to judge him on the basis of how he'd do with the Evans/T.O. combination this season. it didn't work. and if a QB can't do something with that combo, well, not likely that QB is starter-worthy. no buts ... jw
bluenews Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 I agree with every word except the T.O. in B-Lo! Just like Flutie did in the late 1990's Terrell owens saved the franchise this year. He has been a good teammate and helped sell tickets. His presence also singled out Dick Jauron as incapable of leading this franchise and expedited his departure. After watching Matt Cassel play the Bills yesterday knowing how much the Chiefs have invested in him and watching our backup QB for a few games, the difference in the Caliber between TE, Fitz and Cassel is obvious in my opinion. Trent Edwards is better then Cassel, he's better then Fitzpatrick, probably better then half the QB's starting in this league. Trent Edwards regressed because we stuck him behind a pathetic O-line. Trent Edwards regressed because our coaching at the HC and OC position over the last 5 plus years has been pathetic. Trent Edwards regressed because of a self centered idiot we brought in at the WR position to supposedly help this ball club. Do you think the Steelers are looking for a new QB after losing to the pitiful Browns and giving up 8 sacks. Big Ben is a championship caliber QB coming back from a concussion and you see the results when playing behind a sub par O-line. Judging from our offense yesterday, we now have another defensive minded coach trying to run the offense. Fewell, if you are going to run a ball control, run it down your throat type offense which considering our O-line and youth at the QB position is not such a bad idea, put a QB in that can hit the broad side of a barn. If this is the offense you want to run, Captain Check down is the guy for you. Fitzpatrick fumbles and turns the ball over way to much and its a miracle we even beat the pitiful Chiefs in my opinion. Because of our O-line I really didn't want TE back onto the field this season, but TE can run a conservative offense. He's much more accurate and will not turn the ball over near as much. Ryan Fitzpatrick cannot beat the Pats, but in my opinion Trent Edwards can and he almost proved it once this year already. We should let TE play, Flame away...
grelit Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Trent Edwards sucks, please stop with the excuses.
MarkyMannn Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Do you think the Steelers are looking for a new QB after losing to the pitiful Browns and giving up 8 sacks. Big Ben is a championship caliber QB You said it yourself, "Big Ben is a championship caliber QB". When Edwards has a couple Super Bowl rings on his finger, I too will defend him to the death. Heck, he can accomplish half of Big Ben with just one ring and I'll defend him
catsnbills Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 The long ball?!?! How many were there yesterday? None, Nada, Zip. 3 catches by the wide receivers - all short throws. It isn't Edwards or Fitz. Last year against KC in the same stadium Edwards threw for 273 yards - 110 of them to Evans who had a 51 yard catch. He threw for 2 TDs and the "sissy boy" ran 2 TDs in with head long dives into the endzone. How soon we forget. It was not his fault McKelvin brain-farted or his fault that Parrish did the same. This season's debacle is not his fault and I agree that he gives the team the best chance to win this week.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 dog:you're right. it's all pure speculation. hamdan was cut because the Bills went out and signed Brohm don't know if T.O. stabbed anyone in the back, there were some already questioning Edwards' play well before he was benched. Donte Whitner all but said it publicly when voicing his support for Vick. Fitz has worse numbers than Edwards, and yet has more wins than Edwards this year. he's doing far more with far less. and really, when you think about this all objectively, Fitzpatrick's ability to at least target T.O. and Lee is what this offense was supposed to be about, not checkdowns to RBs out of the backfield and 2-yard dumps to TEs. hey, i thought Edwards had potential a while ago, and decided to judge him on the basis of how he'd do with the Evans/T.O. combination this season. it didn't work. and if a QB can't do something with that combo, well, not likely that QB is starter-worthy. no buts ... jw Yesterday's stats: Owens, 2 catches for 15 yards. Evans, 1 catch for 11 yards. I'd hardly call that "far more with far less." And that interception in the endzone was probably the worst pass I've ever seen a pro QB make, and that includes Aaron Brooks and Babe Laufenberg.
Kevin Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 It seems to me that the only reason Fitz is starting is because he is a better runner than Trent. Fitz is bigger, better built, and faster on the scramble. Trent has had two concussions within a year. Putting him in now behind this line could very well end his career. Given this, IMO, starting Fitz is not a hard decision to make.
playman Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Anything other than Brohm under center is just a replay of what we already know. Edwards doesn't have the guts to play QB in the NFL and Fitzpatrick doesn't have the accuracy. +1 the only way to go is to find out what we have in brohm.
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