Thirty Year Fan Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 How would you rate Marv Levy's two years as General Manager, Hiring Jaron, 06 and 07 drafts and free agents signings? Will it hurt his legacy?
nucci Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 Here you go. Join in. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...;hl=marv%20levy
Rocket J Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 How would you rate Marv Levy's two years as General Manager, Hiring Jaron, 06 and 07 drafts and free agents signings?Will it hurt his legacy? Poor at best. It was a banaid to hire him, until Ralphie goes it's going to be the same!
BillsfaninFl Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 Poor at best. It was a banaid to hire him, until Ralphie goes it's going to be the same! How can you rate Marv as a GM, when he wasn't really given the power or the tools? It's like how can guys criticize Bobby April for the decline in our special teams? His personnel have been coming and going through a swinging door for the last three years. I think he actually pulled a couple of fans out of the stands for a few games this year. Okay, I went too far, but you get the point.
Orton's Arm Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 How would you rate Marv Levy's two years as General Manager, Hiring Jaron, 06 and 07 drafts and free agents signings?Will it hurt his legacy? There are three main categories in which one evaluates a general manager: 1) Drafts 2) Coaching hires 3) Free Agent acquisitions Drafts: Marv's first day picks were as follows: 2006 1) (8th overall) Donte Whitner, SS 1) John McCargo 3) Ashton Youboty 2007 1) (12th overall) Marshawn Lynch, RB 2) Paul Posluszy, LB 3) Trent Edwards, QB It's difficult to argue that any of those players has lived up to the expectations associated with his draft position. Marv had some success with second day picks--most notably Kyle Williams and Brad Butler--but that does not balance out his failures on the first day of the draft in general, and in the first round in particular. Grade for drafting: D Coaching hires: Jauron wasn't even a particularly good defensive coach, so it's not obvious why he was offered the head coaching job in Chicago in the first place. It is, however, obvious why no one (other than the Bills) fell all over themselves to give him a second chance after things in Chicago didn't work out. Grade for coaching hire: F Free agents signings: Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker, Tuten Reyes, Robert Royal, Peerless Price, Melvin Fowler, and probably a few other guys I'm forgetting. Grade for free agent signings: H. (An F is not a low enough grade to describe this track record.) Overall, Marv's tenure as a GM was an abysmal, total failure.
Ray Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 You would have to go back in time to actually get the whole aura around the Bills and their fans. The atmosphere was horrific and at an all time low....yes much lower than it is even now. Marv came in, Mularkey left soon afterwards and they were left without a coach. Jauron was hired, they had a 1st round QB they had to see if he could play and be a good QB in this league. In his first year, despite limited talent they go 7-7 and have a shot at a playoff spot with two weeks to play and end up losing to Tennessee at the Ralph 30-29 in a great game. That season they were immensely better than the '05 team. In 2007 they got off to a horrible start and then made a great run to get to 7-6 after a big win at Washington where it looked like Trent Edwards was really going to be something. Then they lost three games straight and Marv retired. Marv was fair at GM but really did no worse than Donahoe or Butler....remember the worst GM draft we have had was Butler's last draft and are still paying for it as well as trading a 1st round pick for RJ. I don't think Marv ever really was the one person to make a decision about personnel....does anyone think that during the draft all scouts gave their opinions as did Jauron, Modrak and then Marv said no we are not picking Ngata we are picking Whitner. I think he really wanted to coach, but I think the problem was when Ralph brought him in there was really no one person making ultimate decisions.....remember Marv was NOT called the GM. They basically came to as best a consensus they could. He did draft the Bills one Pro Bowl player out of what 3 they have had this decade in M Lynch.
Beebe's Kid Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 How would you rate Marv Levy's two years as General Manager, Hiring Jaron, 06 and 07 drafts and free agents signings?Will it hurt his legacy? Wow. Do people really need to keep piling on Marv?? I am sure you would have done a better job, especially with the amazing hindsight you have. Maybe we focus on the future? Do no regret the past, nor wish to shut the door on it, my friend...just freaking move on!!
Orton's Arm Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 Wow. Do people really need to keep piling on Marv?? Yes. I am sure you would have done a better job, especially with the amazing hindsight you have. Yes. (Not that your comment was addressed to me.) Back in 2006, I felt that the Bills should either use their 8th overall pick on a QB such as Cutler, or else should trade down. I spent enough posts advocating for Cutler that I was derisively referred to as "Cutler's Arm." I also advocated the drafting of Mangold as the Bills' center. Levy decided to give Losman and Melvin Fowler a chance at QB and center, respectively, while using his two first round picks on Donte Whitner and John McCargo. Whitner is a run of the mill safety, and McCargo is a backup. Cutler was traded for (IIRC) two first round picks, plus change, while Mangold is arguably the best center in the league. Cutler was available when we took Whitner, and Mangold was available when we took McCargo. I'm a casual fan here, and I don't feel like I bring any magical insight that couldn't be attained by any other intelligent fan. And yet, with those two first round picks alone, I would have achieved more than Marv did in his entire tenure as GM. If Marv doesn't want to be sitting among the fans, he needs to do a better job of building the team than its fans would have done. He clearly failed that litmus test, and deserves to be known as a very poor GM.
DarthICE Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 How would you rate Marv Levy's two years as General Manager, Hiring Jaron, 06 and 07 drafts and free agents signings?Will it hurt his legacy? ****. Absolute ****. Yes he has hurt his legacy with all but mindless lemmings
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 How would you rate Marv Levy's two years as General Manager, Hiring Jaron, 06 and 07 drafts and free agents signings?Will it hurt his legacy? His legacy is that he is in the HOF. I do not see his failures as a Geriatric GM leading to the hiring of a bunch of fellows to go into the HOF and either kidnap or chip away at his bust. If anything, this will add to the stories told fondly about him as the footnote will be that he was a loyal character to the end. Sure, one can easily give Marv an F for his work, but this is on an absolute scale which measures whether he built a winning team. It is pretty clear he failed at that in that his teams while he was here and even the year after he left were 7-9. A rational person (and who said we fans have to be rational cause we are not) would seriously need to take into account that he took over a team which was 5-11 and quickly in his tenure and even for the year after he left he improved them to 7-9. This is still a failing grade in the schools I went to where making the playoffs is essential to someone securing a C avg. Marv actually probably gets a D for his work as one has to admit he improved the team over the disaster which TD amassed. However, I am quite comfortable in moving this to an F given what occurred a couple of years after he left. He would get a C if the team he built made the playoffs after he was gone but one can comfortably give him a Gentleman's D for the time he was here that lapsed into an F for looking at the results of the waste he left. However, you have to be nuts to feel this tarnishes his legacy. If anyone gets indicted here it is Mr. Ralph. If you want to blame Marv it is tough to hold him (or Jauron as well) for the majority of the 0 for a decade playoff record. Max you blame Jauron for 4 years of it and Marv as well if you want to do a legacy indictment but all the crap flows downhill to Mr. Ralph. As far as Marv's legacy he comes off as a stand-up guy who rescued his fellow Golden Boy from the disaster he created with mismanaging his relationship with Butler so he ran to TD an mismanaged the relationship with TD so he ran to Marv. Marv moved the team from disaster to mediocre in his time her and then it lapsed back to disaster after he left.
Thirty Year Fan Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 There are three main categories in which one evaluates a general manager:1) Drafts 2) Coaching hires 3) Free Agent acquisitions Drafts: Marv's first day picks were as follows: 2006 1) (8th overall) Donte Whitner, SS 1) John McCargo 3) Ashton Youboty 2007 1) (12th overall) Marshawn Lynch, RB 2) Paul Posluszy, LB 3) Trent Edwards, QB It's difficult to argue that any of those players has lived up to the expectations associated with his draft position. Marv had some success with second day picks--most notably Kyle Williams and Brad Butler--but that does not balance out his failures on the first day of the draft in general, and in the first round in particular. Grade for drafting: D Coaching hires: Jauron wasn't even a particularly good defensive coach, so it's not obvious why he was offered the head coaching job in Chicago in the first place. It is, however, obvious why no one (other than the Bills) fell all over themselves to give him a second chance after things in Chicago didn't work out. Grade for coaching hire: F Free agents signings: Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker, Tuten Reyes, Robert Royal, Peerless Price, Melvin Fowler, and probably a few other guys I'm forgetting. Grade for free agent signings: H. (An F is not a low enough grade to describe this track record.) Overall, Marv's tenure as a GM was an abysmal, total failure. You can add Larry Triplett to that list.Excellent post
BillsVet Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 One word: Failure Marvelous failure. Marv's a good guy, and he happened to coach the team while Polian stocked the roster with more talent than most franchises have in 20 years. ML excelled at managing personalities, but he was set up to fail as GM. The biggest reason Marv failed was because he leaned on DJ too much for advice on personnel.
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Marvelous failure. Marv's a good guy, and he happened to coach the team while Polian stocked the roster with more talent than most franchises have in 20 years. ML excelled at managing personalities, but he was set up to fail as GM. The biggest reason Marv failed was because he leaned on DJ too much for advice on personnel. The biggest reason Marv failed was because he was wiping up the horrible mess Mr. Ralph left with his mismanagement of the franchise actually dating back to when Marv was around and Polian was canned, then Mr. Ralph mismanaged his relationship with his next GM Butler, and after Butler left this team twisting in the wind, Mr. Ralph mismanaged his relationship with TD. The main reason Marv continued the sorry record of playoff making failure that happened under Mr. Ralph's leadership and far exceeds Marv's and even exceeds DJs reign of error is that he did what Mr. Ralph instructed him to do.
Thirty Year Fan Posted December 12, 2009 Author Posted December 12, 2009 Marvelous failure. Marv's a good guy, and he happened to coach the team while Polian stocked the roster with more talent than most franchises have in 20 years. ML excelled at managing personalities, but he was set up to fail as GM. The biggest reason Marv failed was because he leaned on DJ too much for advice on personnel. Let's not let Guy and Modrak off the hook and why are they still employed?
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Short-term success as token marketing move.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 The biggest reason Marv failed was because he was wiping up the horrible mess Mr. Ralph left with his mismanagement of the franchise actually dating back to when Marv was around and Polian was canned, then Mr. Ralph mismanaged his relationship with his next GM Butler, and after Butler left this team twisting in the wind, Mr. Ralph mismanaged his relationship with TD. The main reason Marv continued the sorry record of playoff making failure that happened under Mr. Ralph's leadership and far exceeds Marv's and even exceeds DJs reign of error is that he did what Mr. Ralph instructed him to do. Way to let 'em wriggle off the hook. This defense boils down to: 1) Marv has no accountability for his own work because people in the past screwed up. 2) Marv is a mindless automaton and puppet. As for the second argument, it's too bad that Marv, just a few weeks ago and over a year removed from the job, was still defending his efforts as GM of the Bills. Apparently, even he didn't think pawning the current stink off on someone else would ring true.
billsfreak Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 How would you rate Marv Levy's two years as General Manager, Hiring Jaron, 06 and 07 drafts and free agents signings?Will it hurt his legacy? Gee this is a new topic. First off, I believe Levy came in as a favor to Ralph to restore some class to the organization, which he immediately tried to do by dumping Willis is Trash to Baltimore for draft picks. I know at least one pick (Hit and Run) didn't turn out too classy. I am not so sure he had the final say in what players were drafted, but was more of a figure head because of his popularity in Buffalo. Will this hurt his legacy, not in the least bit, his bust in Canton still gets polished and he still is and probably always will be the most winning coach in this team's history. The way we are going, we might never have a coach with a career winning record much less 4 conference championships.
8-8 Forever? Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 How can you rate Marv as a GM, when he wasn't really given the power or the tools? It's like how can guys criticize Bobby April for the decline in our special teams? His personnel have been coming and going through a swinging door for the last three years. I think he actually pulled a couple of fans out of the stands for a few games this year. Okay, I went too far, but you get the point. yeah, to see costanzo, aiken and stamer absolutely kicking ass on special teams for other teams (did you SEE costanzo the other night for Cleveland...? awesome job) is painful. bills suck. always let their best players leave.
Thurman#1 Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 How would you rate Marv Levy's two years as General Manager, Hiring Jaron, 06 and 07 drafts and free agents signings?Will it hurt his legacy? Will it hurt his legacy? No, absolutely not. It will be forgotten in a year or two, unlike his coaching. Still, his GM term was not great. As time passes and we can safely grade the players brought in under his reign, things are looking worse, though there are definitely some major exceptions.
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