erynthered Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 People generally won't avoid making $250K because they're scared of taxes. What they will avoid is adding another person to the payroll, because of higher taxes and regulations. At that point, the marginal benefit of working your existing employees a bit harder and maybe paying them a bit more is more efficient. That's how you make sure that 10% unemployment remains fixed. This debate tactic your using is quite new to him. "The truth hurts" tactic must go over his pointed head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Am I supposed to be looking at the first month to month decline since November 07? Stop acting like a hard ass. Here's a good piece of business advice for you. 1 month is not a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You won't take my word for it, you won't look into it for yourself and talk to small business owners and chamber of commerces, and in fact you'll do nothing determine if maybe the fear factor is why hiring is being frozen. As a result, it's only anectdotal, so no reason to feel like anything needs to be done to address this issue. You have the Barack Obama playbook down page by page. All you need to do is raise the debt limit another $2 trillion and remind everyone how the only way out of debt is to spend more borrowed money on things that no one wants. And incidentally, no one said people earning quarter million are trying to avoid that number (Hey, look, your own strawman argument...how bizarre). Actually, the simple fact that you sarcastically feel like people earning over $250K have a "problem" (I think that's in the whole "Oh, it's just a drop in the bucket to those people" argument) shows how unbelievably little you understand about small businesses, which is too bad because small business is what's going to fix the unemployment numbers, not more government jobs. But let's keep ignoring them or admonishing them for trying to squeeze more margins out of fewer employees. Man, oh, man, now THERE'S a recipe for economic recovery. You're missing the point. I have enough to do without going around interviewing random small business owners. Show me the numbers to back up your assertions. Your evidence is anecdotal because it relies on your personal experience, which is by definition not objective. Not because you're skewing it, but because human memory is subjective, selective and inaccurate. That's why anecdotal evidence is crappy and evidence collected using the scientific method is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I like to maintain an optimistic outlook. I also realize that people with an agenda will skew numbers and make assumptions to fit their agenda. We'll see what happens I guess. Anyone know any good unemployed ASP.NET developers in Rochester? It's good to be optimistic, I myself am very positive when it comes to controlling my own destiny, but that doesn't change the landscape. Optimistic is one thing, being a realist is another. Can you give me an example of where you believe I have been "skewing numbers"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 This debate tactic your using is quite new to him. "The truth hurts" tactic must go over his pointed head. Don't you have 300 links to post somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Here's a good piece of business advice for you. 1 month is not a trend. Remember that the next time you hear/say "the Earth has actually COOLED since 1998." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Don't you have 300 links to post somewhere? Shouldnt you be calling small business owners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 It's good to be optimistic, I myself am very positive when it comes to controlling my own destiny, but that doesn't change the landscape. Optimistic is one thing, being a realist is another. Can you give me an example of where you believe I have been "skewing numbers"? I wonder how the landscape is for you. Are you pulling in $200K/year? I haven't seen any numbers yet that tell me that profitable businesses are not hiring because of Obama's policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You're missing the point. Look in the mirror, its atop your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Shouldnt you be calling small business owners? Maybe if I worked for Gallup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Look in the mirror, its atop your head. I don't get it. You're saying I have a pointy head? Is that funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska_Darin_Is_Gay Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I wonder how the landscape is for you. Are you pulling in $200K/year? I haven't seen any numbers yet that tell me that profitable businesses are not hiring because of Obama's policies. It's called common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 It's called common sense. How would you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska_Darin_Is_Gay Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 How would you know? From real life Gene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 You're missing the point. I have enough to do without going around interviewing random small business owners. Show me the numbers to back up your assertions. Your evidence is anecdotal because it relies on your personal experience, which is by definition not objective. Not because you're skewing it, but because human memory is subjective, selective and inaccurate. That's why anecdotal evidence is crappy and evidence collected using the scientific method is not. Most small business hire or don't hire on instinct not on some scientific method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Maybe if I worked for Gallup. Speaking of Gallup..... In this regard, President-elect Obama and his economic team should think carefully about what role they want small business to play in their "bottom-up" stimulus effort. If the goal is to save existing jobs and create new ones, small business -- as the major source of private-sector job creation -- needs to play a major role. The trick will be for the new administration to find ways to help small business reverse its job-shedding and capital-spending-reduction habits of 2008, and in doing so, help spur the larger economic recovery. As 2008 came to an end, there was a lot of focus on too-big-to-fail companies and the need to preserve the jobs they provided. As the new stimulus plans are developed to help these companies and create jobs in 2009, the nation's small businesses and their role in job creation should not be forgotten. Yeah, LA doesnt know what he's talking about, GG neither. God you're a putz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 How would you know? Is this the "I'm rubber you're glue" debate tactic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Those are pretty much the same thing, actually. And LA has a very valid point. My company's growing, revenue-wise, but hiring isn't keeping pace because of current conditions, not past ones. Yes but having lived thru a number of recessions we all know that hiring always lags. Always. The economy is not RECOVERED, it is RECOVERING. Things have to get better and stay that way for awhile before companies of any size are going to invest in hiring on more than an exception basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You're missing the point. I have enough to do without going around interviewing random small business owners. Show me the numbers to back up your assertions. Your evidence is anecdotal because it relies on your personal experience, which is by definition not objective. Not because you're skewing it, but because human memory is subjective, selective and inaccurate. That's why anecdotal evidence is crappy and evidence collected using the scientific method is not. Here is another anecdote for you. The company I work for isn't small, but isn't huge. We are flat in sales nationally (up internationally I found out the other day) and the department I work in is the biggest of the lot. We have gone from 65 to 52 employees. We actually need to hire, but the owner is a bit reluctant to do so because he isn't sure exactly what is going to happen. We can hire if we want, but my boss doesn't want to push it if he can maybe get a little more work out of some of the slackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska_Darin_Is_Gay Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yes but having lived thru a number of recessions we all know that hiring always lags. Always. The economy is not RECOVERED, it is RECOVERING. Things have to get better and stay that way for awhile before companies of any size are going to invest in hiring on more than an exception basis. They're not hiring because they are scared shitless of the impending massive expansion of Obama's welfare state. Is this too hard for liberals to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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