Adam Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 We owe Losman nothing. He was handed the starting job, and never had to compete for it. He had his chance and stunk. Let's move on.... So if he showed vast improvement, you wouldn't want him? Do you expect to have Joe Montana as a backup too?
BillsfaninFl Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 If (and that's a BIG if at this point) Losman gets another shot and really does turn his career around, just be happy that the Bills were able to develop yet another player for some other team. It's what successful farm teams do. What's that? We are a farm team for the rest of the league? Oh! Now it all makes sense. The mystifying player moves, the less than NFL standard budget, the opportunities available for less than qualified coaches. And like any good farm, lots and lots of manure. Lots and lots of manure... lots of manure... swimming in manure... manure. Doctor, is it time for my session again?
Orton's Arm Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Not going to get into your guys debate about how good Leech is or isnt at grooming QB's, mainly because I dont really know his track record here. But, is Tim Couch your only argument in favor of him being able to groom QB's? I hope not, as Couch wasnt very good before or after his injury history and got beat out by a certain QB who also stunk it up for the Bills...He was pretty much considered a bust his entire career, even pre injury. There has to be a better example than this... In a nutshell, Tim Couch played well for Leach, and badly in the pros. I don't understand why that would be seen as a negative for the college coach involved: coaches are supposed to get the very most out of the players they've been handed. But if the Tim Couch example is typical of how Leach-coached QBs fare in the pros--perhaps because he's using a style of offense too different from the NFL--then the Bills would be well-advised to look to non-Leach teams for their QB draft picks.
8-8 Forever? Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 If (and that's a BIG if at this point) Losman gets another shot and really does turn his career around, just be happy that the Bills were able to develop yet another player for some other team. It's what successful farm teams do. Well said. Good post. Bills = Bisons. AAA development for the big leagues.
thebug Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 JP! JP! JP! JP! 1ST Ballot Hall of Famer! Another classic Crayonz thread.
The_Philster Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 We owe Losman nothing. He was handed the starting job, and never had to compete for it.What cave were you living in during camp of 2006? The last good Qb we had we ran out of town because he didn't look the part. Bledsoe or Flutie ? Bledsoe had his moments and definitely looked the part. Not to start that tired Flutie debate, but sometimes when you run off a pro bowl & playoff QB, you get what you deserve. The Curse of Doug Flutie. He ran himself off...get off your knees for the little ego-maniac. First off, he was good in 98 but stunk in 99. The #1 Defense in the NFL carried that team. Secondly, you apparently weren't paying attention when the Greg Williams staff was making the decision on which to keep...Flutie or RJ. They were bringing in the West Coast Offense and both QBs were asked their opinion of it. Flutie said he's give it a shot but if he didn't like it, he'd do it his way....BIG MISTAKE on his part. RJ said he'd do whatever the coaching staff asked of him to try to make it work. Obviously, he wasn't good enough to do it but it wasn't that he didn't want to. Let me clue you in on something...the coaches call the shots...not the QB, unless, like with Jim Kelly and Peyton Manning, the coaches tell them they can call the shots. When a QB who wasn't very good tells the head coach that he's not gonna tow the line, he's out the door. You do realize that Bellicheat loved playing against Losman because it meant an automatic "W"? PTR Belicheat loves playing against the Bills regardless of who starts at the QB position. Yeah...We haven't beaten them with Edwards or Holcomb either and only once with Bledsoe..doesn't matter who's QB for the Bills....Robert Kraft's checks to the officials don't bounce
Mr. WEO Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 So Leach groomed Tim Couch into the nation's top QB, a Heisman finalist, and the #1 overall pick in the NFL draft, then forced him to start in his rookie season for an inexperienced expansion Browns team - behind an inexperienced O-line (throwing for 3000 yards in '02 and leading the expansion Browns to the playoffs), then tore up Couch's shoulder, broke Couch's leg, and finally forced Couch to ruin his career with steroids and HGH????? Please go back to pissing and moaning about the Miami loss with the rest of your Patriettes* queers. Tim Couch!! Forced into PED use!! Tell us about the rest of Leach's QB pedigree...........what's that? More BS from the least informed guy at this site. Sorry to puncture your nitrous cannister, Senator Craig, but I've never been to a pats game. Hey wait---aren't you the guy who had pats season tickets? Oh, that's right--you paid all that money so you could see one Bills game a year. Isn't that what you told us? hahahahahahahahahahaha. Nobody is that simple! Guess you just read Playgirl for the articles, eh?
thebug Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 What cave were you living in during camp of 2006? He ran himself off...get off your knees for the little ego-maniac. First off, he was good in 98 but stunk in 99. The #1 Defense in the NFL carried that team. Secondly, you apparently weren't paying attention when the Greg Williams staff was making the decision on which to keep...Flutie or RJ. They were bringing in the West Coast Offense and both QBs were asked their opinion of it. Flutie said he's give it a shot but if he didn't like it, he'd do it his way....BIG MISTAKE on his part. RJ said he'd do whatever the coaching staff asked of him to try to make it work. Obviously, he wasn't good enough to do it but it wasn't that he didn't want to. Let me clue you in on something...the coaches call the shots...not the QB, unless, like with Jim Kelly and Peyton Manning, the coaches tell them they can call the shots. When a QB who wasn't very good tells the head coach that he's not gonna tow the line, he's out the door. Yeah...We haven't beaten them with Edwards or Holcomb either and only once with Bledsoe..doesn't matter who's QB for the Bills....Robert Kraft's checks to the officials don't bounce Oh the philster seems mad! Jimmy likes.
Orton's Arm Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 What cave were you living in during camp of 2006? . . . Yeah...We haven't beaten them with Edwards or Holcomb either and only once with Bledsoe..doesn't matter who's QB for the Bills....Robert Kraft's checks to the officials don't bounce First, I agree with what you wrote about Flutie. Good play in '98, lousy in '99. The defense carried that team. Secondly, I agree that officiating has played a significant role in some of the Bills' losses to the Patriots. I remember a game in which Holcomb was leading the Bills down the field, late in the fourth quarter, at a time when a touchdown would have given the Bills the lead. Holcomb had just completed a third down pass to Moulds for what should have been a first down. But that play was called back on a ticky-tack offensive pass interference penalty, which turned first and ten into fourth and eleven. I know that Holcomb takes some flak for having thrown it short to Moulds on that fourth and eleven play--even though his primary target, Roscoe Parrish, was double covered. But it would be nice to see Bills fans give Holcomb credit for having played well enough that the Patriots needed a little help from the officials to win that game. But mostly, I'd like to address your comment about Losman's 2006 season. I read an article which indicated that the offense had been considerably simplified for Losman's benefit in 2006. Also, that offense was highly predicated on long bombs to Lee Evans. After 2006, defenses apparently figured out that that the Bills' simple offense was simple to stop. Double cover Evans, put eight men in the box, and dare Losman to beat you with his underneath game. Losman hasn't looked like an NFL-caliber quarterback--even as a backup--since defenses started doing that.
Astrojanitor Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Thanks for not flaming me to bad so far fella's JP? How stupid are you? Talking behind your computer screen like some big man! I'll kick your ass! This line has been far too calm and rational, I agree we needed more flaming..... That being said, I see what you've been seeing in some of those UFL games. If not for those disastrous seasons we've already had to suffer through, I'd be inclined to agree with you. I felt he and Bollinger deserved big breaks....they made big plays and managed the game well enough. Maybe neither deserves to be a starter, but as a backup? Definitely. But we suffered through the JP years. The slow thinking, the fumbles, the weak decision making. If he can prove himself at an NFL level I'd have no problem with bringing him back...but we paid our dues, we don't owe him that second chance.
San-O Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Watching Aaron Rodgers playing against the Ravens last night reminded me of how well Losman was able to throw with decent accuracy while on the run. I'm not going to go into anything JP accomplished in the UFL because to most folks it doesn't mean much anyways , but Jim Fassel has done an amazing job with JP Losman. UFL or not its still the same game and maybe the defenses aren't near as good, but it goes hand in hand with the protection and it still boils down to keeping your composure, keeping the play alive and delivering a strike. JP has great wheels, cannon of an arm and a great work ethic. Losman's arm is probably stronger then 90% of the starting QB's in the NFL. I still see big potential in JP Losman and myself personally, I want that cannon of an arm, athleticism and great work ethic on my team. If we could pick JP up at a reasonable salary, why not bring him in for a hard look through the preseason and see if Loman beats out what we have in camp. We owe it to JP in my opinion and its very possible we owe it to ourselves... http://www.videosurf.com/video/pre-wk-03-j...lights-30483511 http://www.videosurf.com/video/belichick-o...mbling-12089308 LOL So, you're indicating he WASN'T a train wreck?
Guest dog14787 Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 LOL So, you're indicating he WASN'T a train wreck? Just derailed momentarily, but JP is back on the track with the Locomotives. The UFL is also back next year with a couple more teams in two new Cities and next season everyone is gunning for the UFL Champion Loco's and J.P. Losman, especially Bollinger and the Florida Tuskers, as a new league and rivalry is born...
stevestojan Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 I sold my house in WNY, but the new owners would probably like a new coat of paint on it. Sure.... JP back to Buffalo.
strive_for_five_guy Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Just derailed momentarily, but JP is back on the track with the Locomotives. The UFL is also back next year with a couple more teams in two new Cities and next season everyone is gunning for the UFL Champion Loco's and J.P. Losman, especially Bollinger and the Florida Tuskers, as a new league and rivalry is born... it'd be a shame if JP deserted the UFL for the NFL. he owes it to the UFL to defend his championship in the league he made relevant.
Astrojanitor Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 it'd be a shame if JP deserted the UFL for the NFL. he owes it to the UFL to defend his championship in the league he made relevant. When I was a kid the Amerks (Sabres farm club--if y'all ain't from the Rock) featured a cat named Jody Gage. brilliant hockey player that could have been minor player int he NHL. instead he chose to stay in Rochester and be the big fish on the small team for many years. Sometimes good minor league players are just that. Maybe it would do JP a world of good if he was the second best QB in an upstart league. perhaps being the face of the Locos for the 3-5 years the UFL exists is JP's destiny. As Homer Simpson says: "trying is the first step towards failure"
The_Philster Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 But mostly, I'd like to address your comment about Losman's 2006 season. I read an article which indicated that the offense had been considerably simplified for Losman's benefit in 2006. Also, that offense was highly predicated on long bombs to Lee Evans. After 2006, defenses apparently figured out that that the Bills' simple offense was simple to stop. Double cover Evans, put eight men in the box, and dare Losman to beat you with his underneath game. Losman hasn't looked like an NFL-caliber quarterback--even as a backup--since defenses started doing that. My only comment about JP's 2006 season was that he was named starting QB that year after competing for the job...some people obviously didn't pay attention
Mister Defense Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Watching Aaron Rodgers playing against the Ravens last night reminded me of how well Losman was able to throw with decent accuracy while on the run. I'm not going to go into anything JP accomplished in the UFL because to most folks it doesn't mean much anyways , but Jim Fassel has done an amazing job with JP Losman. UFL or not its still the same game and maybe the defenses aren't near as good, but it goes hand in hand with the protection and it still boils down to keeping your composure, keeping the play alive and delivering a strike. JP has great wheels, cannon of an arm and a great work ethic. Losman's arm is probably stronger then 90% of the starting QB's in the NFL. I still see big potential in JP Losman and myself personally, I want that cannon of an arm, athleticism and great work ethic on my team. If we could pick JP up at a reasonable salary, why not bring him in for a hard look through the preseason and see if Loman beats out what we have in camp. We owe it to JP in my opinion and its very possible we owe it to ourselves... http://www.videosurf.com/video/pre-wk-03-j...lights-30483511 http://www.videosurf.com/video/belichick-o...mbling-12089308 !! Come on! I was a supporter of his, think he was trashed here, never had a chance, like Edwards may never have a chance. (We need an owner next time who does not listen to the masses, and does smart things with his team...) BUT, Losman was undermined, run out of town, his career almost over, his confidence eradicated. You want to bring him back for more!! While I agree with your definition of him to some degree, there is no way this guy could play here again, not with these, increasingly, Philadelphia-like fans. As Marv Levy said about Todd Collins, as he left the Bills, his "confidence is shattered" here. Wish him luck--and a good year next year in the NFL, as maybe that will stop the yahoos from doing the same thing to Edwards next year.
Thurman#1 Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 It's still very telling to me that no NFL club picked him up. Says to me pretty plainly that he does not have NFL talent - maybe some of the physical skills but his downfalls were always poor decisions and lack of accuracy. The Bills need to move on. JP was not the answer before and he is not going forward. Flutie, on one of the UFL broadcasts, said JP had offers. So it's not so telling after all. JP wanted the right situation in the NFL, not just any situation, but the right one. His decision to go with the UFL has proved to be a very good one, probably better than a lot of NFL teams where he wouldn't have had a chance to get on the field would have been. And now we have reports that the Colts brought him in for a workout, which shows that unlike most of this board, Polian consider him worth a look at least. In looking for a good situation, though, it's a good bet that he won't be looking for a situation where the worst OL in the league is protecting the QB, where nobody knows who the coach or the GM will be and where the playbook is ridiculously conservative. Don't expect him back here.
Thurman#1 Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 But mostly, I'd like to address your comment about Losman's 2006 season. I read an article which indicated that the offense had been considerably simplified for Losman's benefit in 2006. Also, that offense was highly predicated on long bombs to Lee Evans. After 2006, defenses apparently figured out that that the Bills' simple offense was simple to stop. Double cover Evans, put eight men in the box, and dare Losman to beat you with his underneath game. Losman hasn't looked like an NFL-caliber quarterback--even as a backup--since defenses started doing that. No, defenses didn't figure anything out after 2006. Our clever OC realized that he had a QB who worked well with a playbook that was opened up (don't know where you got that simplified stuff, Losman liked the playbook opened up, and played considerably better after the bye when we opened up the offense) and cleverly, in a sort of reverse psychology move, closed down the playbook. JP was never the same.
Stenbar Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 No, defenses didn't figure anything out after 2006. Our clever OC realized that he had a QB who worked well with a playbook that was opened up (don't know where you got that simplified stuff, Losman liked the playbook opened up, and played considerably better after the bye when we opened up the offense) and cleverly, in a sort of reverse psychology move, closed down the playbook. JP was never the same. Enter the Magic Bullet theory..Another day another Excuse.....Sweet...Wonder what pops up tomorrow???
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