Hey, did anyone see ProBowler Jason Peters today?

[Flbillsfan#1]

Yeah, he is one of the best in the league. If he continues to miss games at this rate over the next few years then he won't have been.

 

But he was playing sensationally this year before the injury. And he doesn't have much of a history of injuries before this year. Haters would have you believe that he did, but the facts are that in five years with the Bills, he missed four games. That is very good.

 

You just look at profootballfocus.com and you see that right up until the injury he was the second-highest ranked tackle in the league. He has been hobbled since then and attempted to play through it, and as such hasn't performed well. So badly that he's the #13 ranked tackle in the league, including all right and left tackles.

 

He's an elite tackle and deserves to be paid like one. If he continues to be injured at this rate, this will have been a bad deal for the Eagles, but if you want to say tha the sucks for being injured as little as he has been for his career, that would mean that, what ... 75% of the Bills suck for the same reason.

 

Go here:

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=2148

 

You can see that he had a sensational start to the season, tailed off with the injury, and has started to improve again as he got healthier. He had a head (and shoulder) injury in this game, and they're being very careful with those these days, but Peters has already pledged to be back next week.

 

He's an elite player. Elite players get elite money. And the money goes up an ungodly amount each year as the TV dollars go up. This is the way things are in the NFL. Blaming Peters for it is idiotic. He wanted market value. He got it. And he's playing up to the salary, playing through injury, having a very good season though he's missed a bit of time.

 

Get used to seeing "pro bowl" before his name. You are likely to be seeing it for years and years to come.

I really doubt you see Peters & Pro Bowl associated very much in the future. Peters got his Pay Day so I don't think he is very motivated anymore & as I & others have said when the trade happened, he is INJURY PRONE. You don't make the Pro Bowl on the bench, & JP seems content there.

[BillsfaninFl]

I was watching the Miami-NE* game but tuned into the Eagles Falcons game during breaks wanting to see how our Pro Bowl LT was performing for the Eagles, but couldn't spot him on the field at all.

 

Could he have already left for Hawaii?

 

Obviously, I am missing something. There seems to be a group who are obsessed with dwelling on players who have left the Bills and relishing it if they are playing poorly. Apparently this is therapy I cannot understand.

 

It bugs me when the Bills let good players go. It it pisses me off when they fail to bring in good players. And it's frustrating as hell when they hire unqualified administration and coaching personnel. But people who are no longer in the organization (or refused to join the organization) are not the enemy in my opinion. The fact that so many of these people are succesful is an indicator of what mistake the Bills organization is making, but I can't hate them for not being here.

[BADOLBILZ]

Winfield and Clements weren't the issue. And Clements still isn't worth the 8-year/$80M contract he got. Not even close.

 

One doesn't have to blindly pledge allegiance to the front office to see that Peters wasn't worth what he was demanding. He's missed how many games? Given up how many sacks? Taken how many penalties? Yeah. Best tackle in the league? What a complete joke.

 

Dirty little secret: Not every player in the league is paid commensurate to how the fans think they should be. You overpay some, you get some bargains. But if you don't keep your good players, you just end up chasing the performance that you lost on subsequent draft days and don't get better personnel.

 

Whether the penny pinchers want to hear it or not, the truth is, they should have re-signed Nate, Fletch, Williams and Peters. Hell, they could have kept Milloy and Spikes too. Sure, they wouldn't be $50M under the salary cap, but they wouldn't have had to use high draft picks on guys like Whitner, McKelvin, Poz and McCargo. Maybe never trade two first day picks for Stroud....I mean IMAGINE the talent that this team could have if they weren't always reaching for glaring, self inflicted needs.

 

It's commendable that people want to save Ralph money. You should have interceded when they signed mediocre players Dockery and Walker to large contracts, but nobody is perfect I guess.

 

It's not just the money. It's the overall cost to replace, both financially and in terms of immediate wins and losses. This was a problem under Donahoe, but Marv perfected it. Expect a LT to be at the top of the Bills wish list on draft day 2010.

[Thurman#1]

So you wanted management to pay Clements a top maybe 25 CB 10M per year? That is not money well spent. Peters was not going play here for the 7-8M they offered him per year and was not good last year and would have held out again and not played well. He is often injured and certainly if this year is any indication will NOT play up to his contract.

The biggest mistake was letting Pat Williams go and that was Donahoe....for basically not wanting to pay him...the Vikings ended up paying him a little less than 1M a year more than the Bills offer. He is still playing at a great level and this defense over the last decade could have been much better with a guy like him consistently in there.

 

Front office made some mistakes but if you think Peters and Clements are playing anywhere near the level of their contract that just is not true.

 

 

 

Jeez, this has only been said about eighty times. Clements isn't actually going to recieve that amount. The last two years of the contract are wildly high, it's backloaded. So it's actually a 6 year contract for less than $9 mill / year. And yeah, he WAS and IS worth that. If he was still here, we wouldn't have had to use so many high picks on CBs the past few years.

 

And Clements is playing below the level of his contract because their D-line sucks. With no pass rush, no CB will look good.

 

Gotta agree with you about Pat Williams, but Peters, Clements and Winfield were also big mistakes. They got high contracts ... which they deserved.

[Thurman#1]

I really doubt you see Peters & Pro Bowl associated very much in the future. Peters got his Pay Day so I don't think he is very motivated anymore & as I & others have said when the trade happened, he is INJURY PRONE. You don't make the Pro Bowl on the bench, & JP seems content there.

 

 

Again, look at this.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

 

and this:

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=2148

 

Peters has played extremely well this year when he wasn't injured. There are still legit concerns about him (and anyone else who signs a long-term contract) about injury. But he has clearly showed that he is motivated, in the most basic way, by playing extremely well.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Again, look at this.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

 

and this:

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=2148

 

Peters has played extremely well this year when he wasn't injured. There are still legit concerns about him (and anyone else who signs a long-term contract) about injury. But he has clearly showed that he is motivated, in the most basic way, by playing extremely well.

He said after a LOSS that he sat on the sideline for MUCH of ............I could have gone back in if I had to. That does not sound like a motivated player to me. A QB that goes back in with a separated shoulder & throws the winning TD, thats what I call a motivated player.

[Thurman#1]

Obviously, I am missing something. There seems to be a group who are obsessed with dwelling on players who have left the Bills and relishing it if they are playing poorly. Apparently this is therapy I cannot understand.

 

It bugs me when the Bills let good players go. It it pisses me off when they fail to bring in good players. And it's frustrating as hell when they hire unqualified administration and coaching personnel. But people who are no longer in the organization (or refused to join the organization) are not the enemy in my opinion. The fact that so many of these people are succesful is an indicator of what mistake the Bills organization is making, but I can't hate them for not being here.

 

 

Nice post. And yeah, you raise a good question.

[silvermike]

Nate Clements has fewer interceptions as a 49er than Jairus Byrd has as a Bill, with two full seasons of a head start. I don't miss him just because the front office decided to replace Jabari Greer with a 1st round pick.

 

But that's the exception on our talent hemorrage: Pat Williams is old news. Antoine Winfield has been one of the best CBs in the league for years now. Jason Peters is flawed, but better than any offensive linemen to suit up at OBD since Reuben Brown at least. We needed those guys.

[Mr. WEO]

Jeez, this has only been said about eighty times. Clements isn't actually going to recieve that amount. The last two years of the contract are wildly high, it's backloaded. So it's actually a 6 year contract for less than $9 mill / year. And yeah, he WAS and IS worth that. If he was still here, we wouldn't have had to use so many high picks on CBs the past few years.

 

And Clements is playing below the level of his contract because their D-line sucks. With no pass rush, no CB will look good.

 

Gotta agree with you about Pat Williams, but Peters, Clements and Winfield were also big mistakes. They got high contracts ... which they deserved.

The Bills FO fetish for picking DBs is independent of Clements's leaving.

 

Clements is not a top 10 CB.

 

Williams is a PED abuser.

 

Peters is what we thought he was.

[birdog1960]

Dirty little secret: Not every player in the league is paid commensurate to how the fans think they should be. You overpay some, you get some bargains. But if you don't keep your good players, you just end up chasing the performance that you lost on subsequent draft days and don't get better personnel.

 

Whether the penny pinchers want to hear it or not, the truth is, they should have re-signed Nate, Fletch, Williams and Peters. Hell, they could have kept Milloy and Spikes too. Sure, they wouldn't be $50M under the salary cap, but they wouldn't have had to use high draft picks on guys like Whitner, McKelvin, Poz and McCargo. Maybe never trade two first day picks for Stroud....I mean IMAGINE the talent that this team could have if they weren't always reaching for glaring, self inflicted needs.

 

It's commendable that people want to save Ralph money. You should have interceded when they signed mediocre players Dockery and Walker to large contracts, but nobody is perfect I guess.

 

It's not just the money. It's the overall cost to replace, both financially and in terms of immediate wins and losses. This was a problem under Donahoe, but Marv perfected it. Expect a LT to be at the top of the Bills wish list on draft day 2010.

Agreed, except it mostly IS the money to the Bills FO despite the fact the AP unquestioningly states that Ralph has been competitive at retaining big name veterans and signing free agents in their recent puff piece on Ralph POSSIBLY spending big bucks on a coach. And then you have the ralph apologists here explainig it all away as unworthiness and greed on the part of the star players..bizarre....

[The Senator]

Any time somebody leaves the field because of any kind of a head injury, alarm bells now ring in the NFL. Yesterday, Eagles left tackle Jason Peters left the game early in the second quarter with what were described as head and shoulder problems following a cut block gone bad. Peters did not return. Naturally, the postgame questions began about a concussion. Peters swears he does not have one.

 

No headaches?

 

"No, I'm fine," Peters said. "I'm fine. I was trying to go back in and they kept telling me to sit out, sit out . . . I landed on my shoulder wrong. It was on a cut block and I just landed on the turf wrong."

 

As the next wave of reporters began asking Peters the same questions, he began to withdraw. By about the fourth wave, he wasn't even acknowledging that he had a head.

 

link

 

Funny..I've been insisting that he had no brain, ever since he scored a 6 on the Wonderlic.

 

And despite the dogged insistence of the Jason Peters' Balls-Washers Club that the Eagles and their fans are just delighted with FatBoy, indeed there are rumblings of discontent within both the Eagles organization and fan base about him...

 

Link - The Puzzling Peters (Non?)Controversy

 

Link - Peters is taking a lot of heat for being soft and not playing through nicks in practice or games.

[C.Biscuit97]

Pat Williams is the only player the Bills have lost that is truly worth his salary. He's also the only one who could have a significant in pact with the team's win/ loss record. Pat Williams is the biggest mistake this franchise has made in the last decade IMO.

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

And yeah, he WAS and IS worth that.

You are right that there is no doubt that Clements is not worth the cap hit associated with the backloaded contract and I am glad you see that. However, I disagree with you that Clements is worth even the $9 million per year you claim he is actually getting.

 

Clements commanded the big salary he got from the market because of his alleged ability to be a playmaker. The facts proved to be that this was simply hype. The sense it was just hype as indicated by his low INT numbers with SF and by his actually laying the ball on the carpet in a key situation when he was still returning punts for the Bills.

 

The simple fact is that one could replace his skills as a first string corner not with new acquisitions but with Terrence McGee who was already on the roster at about a third of the cap hit which the market gave NC. If the Bills had ponied up big bucks to him while he was still on the roster and would have had to have risked the potential of injury, the Bills might have gotten him for far less than the 3x stud CB contract he collected, but the simple case is that we had a player already on the roster who could supply the same level play at half the cost even if we got a bargain basement 2x CB stud deal for Clements.

 

Add to this that his extra value as a playmaker was proving to be a dud with his critical PR mistakes and again the Bills had a player already on the roster in Parrish who was ready to assume the playmaker role Clements had. True Parrish after a tremendous start as one of the best PR guys in the NFL ended up being a dud. However, the Bills choice was to pay NC the biggest contract ever given to a defender in order to leave the ball on the carpet just like Parrish making sumb decisions to try to return balls he should have let go.

 

The additional help the Bills went for in the draft in McKelvin was not to just replace NC after we let him walk, but actually was to replace Parrish and Mcgee on return duty after they failed to be able to take on these tasks after Clements had already demonstrated we had better options already on our roster.

 

Peters is not playing well but it seems pretty clear that even poor play by Peters would have been better than the often horrible play by Meredith and the cast of journeymen we have used as LTs.

 

On the other hand, Clements not only is not playing well in his new gig, but what we had left on this roster at CB and at PR seems to be at least as good as NC offers but at at most half the price.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Obviously, I am missing something. There seems to be a group who are obsessed with dwelling on players who have left the Bills and relishing it if they are playing poorly. Apparently this is therapy I cannot understand.

 

It bugs me when the Bills let good players go. It it pisses me off when they fail to bring in good players. And it's frustrating as hell when they hire unqualified administration and coaching personnel. But people who are no longer in the organization (or refused to join the organization) are not the enemy in my opinion. The fact that so many of these people are succesful is an indicator of what mistake the Bills organization is making, but I can't hate them for not being here.

There are some people it is easy to hate, like Willis Mcgahee, I am happy to see him play poorly. Others like Clements & Peters wanted out of Buffalo, this was reported at the time & NO I WILL NOT PROVIDE A LINK.....................LOOK IT UP YOURSELF. They were paid big bucks & while I do not hate them, I am happy when they don't play well because that means the team that signed them wasted its resources. There are others that I wish were still Bills like Takeo Spikes, Winfield & Pat Williams. I wish them well.

[ganesh]

No, what's a complete joke is what the Bills FO decided they could replace him with.

That overrated player is still much better than the POS scrubs the Bills tried at LT.

 

I still think the Bills made the right choice to ship Peters. Where they erred was in finding the right replacement, especially in the draft. They completely whiffed on their idea of converting Walker to a LT and then dropping him for Bell.

 

 

If they had picked Oher at the #11 pick instead of Maybin, they will be much better now.

 

Bottom line that kind of Personnel in-decision goes on Jauron who was was also acting as the GM.

[Cynical]

I still think the Bills made the right choice to ship Peters. Where they erred was in finding the right replacement, especially in the draft. They completely whiffed on their idea of converting Walker to a LT and then dropping him for Bell.

 

Exactly.

 

The people who justify the trade because we drafted Wood are missing the big picture, and ignoring an important concept.

Prior to trading Peters, the Bills did not need to replace/upgrade the RG position.

 

If a person would step back and look at the upheaval across the OL trading ONE player caused, instead of laughing at the Eagles for "overpaying" for a fat, lazy, unmotivated LT, they would see the horrific decisions made by this FO in order to compensate for Peters loss on the line.

 

If they had picked Oher at the #11 pick instead of Maybin, they will be much better now.

 

Hell, even if they didn't draft Oher, how about somebody/anybody that resembles a LT?

How the hell does anybody convince themselves that a slow footed adequate RT backed up by a 2nd year project pick is a viable solution to play LT?

 

Bottom line that kind of Personnel in-decision goes on Jauron who was was also acting as the GM.

 

Agreed. People can blast Guy and Modrak all they want (and to some extent they are justified in their criticism), but I doubt either one of them "scout" and evaluate their own team. I believe that is left up to the coaching staff to do.

[Billsguy]

Winfield and Clements weren't the issue. And Clements still isn't worth the 8-year/$80M contract he got. Not even close.

 

Is Lee Evans worth 9 million a year? NO

 

Is Kelsay worth 5 million? NO

 

The list goes on and on.

 

There's your problem. It's the organization that makes these dumbass decisions.

 

Clean out the bad decision makers.

[Cornerville]

I was watching the Miami-NE* game but tuned into the Eagles Falcons game during breaks wanting to see how our Pro Bowl LT was performing for the Eagles, but couldn't spot him on the field at all.

 

Could he have already left for Hawaii?

 

 

He will send your crusading yourself a postcard from the playoffs.

[BADOLBILZ]

Pat Williams is the only player the Bills have lost that is truly worth his salary. He's also the only one who could have a significant in pact with the team's win/ loss record. Pat Williams is the biggest mistake this franchise has made in the last decade IMO.

 

If it were only that simple. The loss of these players saved the team initial dollars but cost them high draft picks, substantial rookie contracts and ultimately WINS. Most of the replacements were very costly and not as good as the player they replaced. Whitner will never be the player Milloy was, even during his last years in Buffalo. McKelvin and his frail body will not likely ever approach the long, durable, productive career of Clemens. Poz missed more games as a rookie than Fletch will in his career, and he too is unlikely to ever play at the level of Fletcher. McCargo? Pffffft. They really aren't even getting back to square one using your endorsed approach.

 

LASTLY, chew on this: guys like Pat Williams, Clements, Winfield and Fletcher were all bargains until they reached their free agency with the Bills. That warrants consideration on payday. Overpaying is the consequence of letting players reach FA.

[The Senator]

He will send your crusading yourself a postcard from the playoffs.

Nah, don't think I'm on FatBoy's Christmas Card list either. But he might just 'ride the pine' into the playoffs. Two tough divisional games against NYG and Dallas, on the road no less, and I don't expect thew Broncos or 49ers to lay down for the Eagles either, but it's possible FatBoy might see the postseason from the bench.