todzilla Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Suh is a franchise changer, I would have no problem trading 1, 2, and 2011 #1 to get him. But if not, I like Okung, or Cody or the Bama linebacker (blanking on the name, #25). And then trade into the end of the 1st to get Pike.
McBeane Posted December 6, 2009 Author Posted December 6, 2009 I dont care how dominant this player is you dont get better like we need to by trading away premium picks when you have other players at the position that are also good players..... To move up we would need to give up several picks....including our second rounder.....when you could take a guy like Cody and still greatly improve our defensive line.....and still have our second rounder to take another quality player. Would you rather have our FO do whatever they have to to get Suh or wait and try to pick someone available at number 8 or so? I don't trust our FO in the least...
John from Riverside Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Would you rather have our FO do whatever they have to to get Suh or wait and try to pick someone available at number 8 or so? I don't trust our FO in the least... I dont think it is going to be the same FO. Dont get me wrong......I LOVE Suh....it is just that I am not willing to give up picks in a draft where we could get a space eater like Cody (these guys are really hard to get and will be even more important should we go 3-4) Then you have your 2nd round pick to get another good player...this team has a lot of holes.
FluffHead Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Suh is a franchise changer, I would have no problem trading 1, 2, and 2011 #1 to get him. But if not, I like Okung, or Cody or the Bama linebacker (blanking on the name, #25). And then trade into the end of the 1st to get Pike. Renaldo McClain
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I dont think it is going to be the same FO. Dont get me wrong......I LOVE Suh....it is just that I am not willing to give up picks in a draft where we could get a space eater like Cody (these guys are really hard to get and will be even more important should we go 3-4) Then you have your 2nd round pick to get another good player...this team has a lot of holes. I understand where you are coming from here, and I am kind of on the fence with this...but it is my gut feeling and what I think needs to be done and COULD be done... Instead of trading premium picks to teams like the Bucs, Browns and/or Lions...we could offer them picks down the road, or to help them out immediately, players who can come in and contribute right away...I suggest: Donte Whitner - Bucs, Lions, Chiefs, Redskins...could ALL use a decent starting FS. He would fit VERY well in Detroit and Tampa Bay. He would immediately start in Kansas City and would compliment Landry in Washington perfectly. Marshawn Lynch - The Bucs have Cadillac, who is VERY injury prone and Derrick Ward who would be a great 1-2 punch with the powerful Lynch. The Lions have Kevin Smith and thats it. Who do the Cheifs even have now after L.J. left? The Redskins have Portis, but he is getting old and is usually hurt EVERY year. Any team in need of a RB would take this guy, no doubt in my mind. The Browns would be a perfect fit for him too. Chris Kelsay/Aaron Schobel - All of the teams ahead of us could use a DE, and packaged with Lynch, Whitner and/or a draft pick, would be a good deal for a team looking to have somebody come in and contribute right away. OTHERS to consider: Kawika Mitchell Marcus Stroud Brad Butler Roscoe Parrish Leodis McKelvin or Terrence McGee The Bucs need a saftey and/or a defensive end. They could trade down with us, pick up Kelsay or Schobel to be their DE and Whitner to be their starting FS, and they could still pick up a OT with the pick we give them. Or if they really want a DT to fit their scheme, we could give them Stroud. Kyle Williams and Suh would look like a formidable duo. The Rams want a QB and could still grab one with the pick we give them, if they gave us their pick and we sent them some players to fill needs. The Lions need a blindside protector for Stafford and could take Okung. That would leave McCoy for the Bucs to take with our pick that we could trade them, because the 3 or 4 teams inbetween us does not need a DT. *This is all off the top of my head without looking anything up or doing research. However, I think big "SUE" could be had by the Bills if they just let loose some of the guys who arent performing and may just need a chance. (Whitner and Lynch being the 2 guys that I think fit the bill). They are NOT bad players AT ALL and could both start on a number of teams. *And for what it is worth...I would LOVE a safety backfield of Taylor Mays and Jairus Byrd. That could be the best safety tandem to come together in a very VERY long time.
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Players rarely get traded in the NFL because of the dead money it inflicts on a team's cap space. Also, I really think Cody is the way to go. One of the reasons our LBs have struggled so much (besides not being overly talented) is that our defensive line gets rolled due to their size and our LBs are fighting off the opponents OL. We need a space eater and a run stuffer to occupy multiple linemen so that our LBs can plug holes and not take on O-linemen. I think Suh is going to be a fantastic 3-4 DE, but I honestly think Cody transforms the line just as much if not more than Suh.
H2o Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 he is like Ngota 2.0 Suh seems to be better than Ngata when he was at the college level. I've never seen one man dominate the offense as he does.
dtgolder Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 The only benefit the Bills will receive from Suh is that he'll "use up" one of the draft choices for teams that are picking ahead of the Bills...(and that *may* mean a better QB choice for the Bills). EVERY team would love to have this guy, and (as folks have said) I doubt the Bills (or anyone else) will be able to trade up to get him...I could be wrong, but I expect him to go #1.
DarthICE Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Guys, Believe it or not Gerald McCoy from OU is as good. In fact until the mid point of this season it was McCoy not Suh that was #1 on all boards and a top 3 pick. Most experts still say McCoy is a top 5 overall pick. So depending on where we draft, we can still possibly get a stud DT.
JohnC Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I understand we won't end the season with a bad enough record to just take him. We would have to trade up somehow to get Suh but he is such a dominant player that it's almost stupid to not at least TRY to get him. I know this is extremely unlikely given our track record, but it should be looked at very seriously. I mean we do have Lynch and some other decent trade bait. The Bills have so many needs that it would be self-defeating to give up picks or players to take a stud DT when we still might be in position to get another stud DT in McCoy. No one player, dominant or not, is going to have a meaningful impact on elevating the prospects of the Bills. The Bills need a roster overhaul. Mortgaging other needs to address one need will inhibit the long process to being a competitive team. Of course everything stated about draft needs is assuming that the owner and Russ Brandon are going to install a competent GM who knows how to assess talent. Unless this dysfunctional organization is reconstituted there will be no hope to alter the direction of this stumbling franchise.
BillsVet Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Of course everything stated about draft needs is assuming that the owner and Russ Brandon are going to install a competent GM who knows how to assess talent. Unless this dysfunctional organization is reconstituted there will be no hope to alter the direction of this stumbling franchise. Right. Discussing individual players, drafted or UFA's, is pointless until the front office is completely re-done. As long as Modrak, Guy, and Brandon are making decisions with RW and Littman overseeing them, nothing changes. I'm all for someone who isn't a name guy being the GM. Whether or not anyone wants t work for Wilson is another story.
Saint Doug Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 the #1 pick is gonna make $12 million a year for 6 years with over half guaranteed. the current franchise tag value for a DT is only $6.06 million per year (only Haynesworth exceeds this at $7.25 mil), the current franchise tag for DE is $9 million (only Peppers exceeds this at $13.9 mil). By this logic, it would be best to just pick up an elite DT in free agency. It would be cheaper, the player would already be established, and we could use the pick on someone we would never be able to obtain in FA (like a QB or LT).
papazoid Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 recent history comparison........the year is 2007......would anyone here trade Marshawn Lynch (picked 12th overall) and Paul Posluszny (picked 34th overall, but cost us our 2nd and 3rd round picks to move up in order to get him) for either Adrian Peterson (picked 7th) or Patrick Willis (picked 11th). in that year the washington redskins wanted out of the 6th overall pick. the bills could have moved up and picked either one of those guys for our 1st, 2nd & 3rd round picks. my only point here, is that sometimes it make sense to move up and pay a premium for the right impact player. Suh is one of those players.
Ray Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Trading 1,2 and next years 1? Glad you're not the GM. The kid looks great but you neer know until they play in the NFL. If the Bills are in the top 10 then they may get him if they are not convinced on a QB. The problem is that you need a great QB to have success in this league and be a great team. If the QB of the future is there (Clausen/Locker) you take him. The reason the Bills have not made the playoffs in 10 years is because they have not had good QB play, plain and simple. If they think they can get a Pike or someone with the second pick and Suh is on the board I have no problem with them taking the guy. I agree he looks very good and you could pair him next to Stroud as well.
papazoid Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 By this logic, it would be best to just pick up an elite DT in free agency. It would be cheaper, the player would already be established, and we could use the pick on someone we would never be able to obtain in FA (like a QB or LT). i agree with you, if such a player existed, which there isn't. the only impact DT technically avail next year is Vince Wilfork from New England. there is no way he leaves that team. they will franchise tag him because it makes too much financial sense. for whatever reason DT's are underpaid. that is part of the reason why they traded away Seymour......because they couldn't tag both next year, so they have already decided Wilfork makes more sense and they at least get a very high number 1 draft pick from the raiders for seymour in 2011, instead of watching him walk in FA. if i'm building a team and can have only two all pro's on my defense.....i want them both to be DT's......it all starts there, if you don't dominate in the middle of the d-line, you will struggle. you have to build a defense that can stop 3rd & 1 or 4th &1....just like you should build an offense to get a yard anytime you need it.
Mike in Syracuse Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 i agree with you, if such a player existed, which there isn't. the only impact DT technically avail next year is Vince Wilfork from New England. there is no way he leaves that team. they will franchise tag him because it makes too much financial sense. for whatever reason DT's are underpaid. that is part of the reason why they traded away Seymour......because they couldn't tag both next year, so they have already decided Wilfork makes more sense and they at least get a very high number 1 draft pick from the raiders for seymour in 2011, instead of watching him walk in FA. if i'm building a team and can have only two all pro's on my defense.....i want them both to be DT's......it all starts there, if you don't dominate in the middle of the d-line, you will struggle. you have to build a defense that can stop 3rd & 1 or 4th &1....just like you should build an offense to get a yard anytime you need it. I'm not so sure that Wilfork would never leave New England. Wilfork and Seymour were best friends. When he saw that Hoodyboy was willing to trade Seymour away he must have realized that he is nothing more than a commodity to that team. He may very well be willing to leave. Hell maybe he wants to leave.
papazoid Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Trading 1,2 and next years 1? Glad you're not the GM. The kid looks great but you neer know until they play in the NFL. If the Bills are in the top 10 then they may get him if they are not convinced on a QB.The problem is that you need a great QB to have success in this league and be a great team. If the QB of the future is there (Clausen/Locker) you take him. The reason the Bills have not made the playoffs in 10 years is because they have not had good QB play, plain and simple. If they think they can get a Pike or someone with the second pick and Suh is on the board I have no problem with them taking the guy. I agree he looks very good and you could pair him next to Stroud as well. you blame the QB......i blame the neglect of the offensive and defensive lines........how come jim kelly looked like a million bucks early in his career when he had 5 all pro's blocking for him (Wilfork,Richter,Hull, Davis & Ballard) and then had to quit before he was ready because of poor line play from a rag tag bunch at the end of his career. you take jim kelly in his prime and put him behind this years offensive line and he would not be in the hall of fame.
Pete Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I would love for us to trade up and get Suh. He will be off the board in the first two picks though
PushthePile Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 you blame the QB......i blame the neglect of the offensive and defensive lines........how come jim kelly looked like a million bucks early in his career when he had 5 all pro's blocking for him (Wilfork,Richter,Hull, Davis & Ballard) and then had to quit before he was ready because of poor line play from a rag tag bunch at the end of his career. you take jim kelly in his prime and put him behind this years offensive line and he would not be in the hall of fame. Kelly didn't get hit anymore in his last three years than he did in his first three. This is a common misconception. The truth is his style of play often left him open to taking shots. His body couldn't take the blows later in his career, and the line subsequently appeared to be at fault. This often the case with a star QB later in his career. A player is obviously not as mobile as he once was, and what was before a drag to the ground tackle becomes a chance for a defender to tee off. Steve Young comes to mind. That guy seemed capable of escaping everything for a long time. Toward the end, he looked like a tackling dummy. This is the harsh reality of sports.
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