Fitz looked pretty bad last night

[starrymessenger]

with respect i disagree. if the line was great, they could open lanes for our rbs to have great games. if the line was great, the qb would have enough time disect a secondary. rf is not worse than the line. the line is worse than rf.

ok lets saw it off. They are both equally bad, and I mean terrible.

Nothing against RF personally, but he does not have the tools to dissect his dinner, let alone any NFL secondary.

He is just a really poor, read inaccurate passer: poor mechanics and inadequate arm strength.

Problem is you cannot win in the NFL without decent QB play - and it is even more important than good O-line play (which I understand also to be important, as you say). Ben R has played well behind some pretty inadequate lines. In fact he won a superbowl. The better the line however, the less good the QB probably can afford to be. But he cannot be flat out bad, or if he is you simply will not win in the NFL.

[Clippers of Nfl]

Ryan's throws were so bad they could not even be intercepted. Sanchez was the only QB last night who made sound decisions and made good throws.

u a jets fan now? ryan forced throws to T.O. i didnt like that. i think it was because he underestimated revis.

any qb would look sloppy with this oline. he did look sloppy. but he still had us in position to win. blame the oline and the play calling. poor guy is doing the best he can with what he has.

[Clippers of Nfl]

ok lets saw it off. They are both equally bad, and I mean terrible.

Nothing against RF personally, but he does not have the tools to dissect his dinner, let alone any NFL secondary.

He is just a really poor, read inaccurate passer: poor mechanics and inadequate arm strength.

Problem is you cannot win in the NFL without decent QB play - and it is even more important than good O-line play (which I understand also to be important, as you say). Ben R has played well behind some pretty inadequate lines. In fact he won a superbowl. The better the line however, the less good the QB probably can afford to be. But he cannot be flat out bad, or if he is you simply will not win in the NFL.

cool then.

[seq004]

I will never be convinced that the Bills have ever had a line this bad.

I've been watching the Bills for 4 decades and your right this is the worst offensive line I've ever witnessed.

[Guest dog14787]

96 O-line:

 

John Fina LT, Ruben Brown LG, Kent Hull C, Jerry Ostroski RG, and Glenn Parker RT

 

Hmmm, I would have to question your logic here, and on the same year Thurman rushes for 1,033 and Darrick Holmes for 571

 

 

While Fina had a good year in 95, he was terrible in 96. I think he was banged up, but in any event he didn't play very well. Ostroski and Parker (who received his walking papers after the season) also were terrible in pass blocking that year, and Hull was literally on his last legs. They gave up 48 sacks that year, and averaged 3.4 yards per attempt rushing (Holmes averaged 3.0 per attempt). Those are terrible numbers. Kelly had 14 TDs and 19 INTs.

 

Averaging over 100 yards rushing per game and these names compared to our current O-line, come on, give it up.

 

Our current O-line doesn't even come close and if you think the Bills 96 O-line was real bad it just goes to show how pathetic our O-line really is now because Fitz would kill to have that O-line. The 96 O-line would knock our current O-line on its ass.

[No QB - No Bueno]

Averaging over 100 yards rushing per game and these names compared to our current O-line, come on, give it up.

 

Our current O-line doesn't even come close and if you think the Bills 96 O-line was real bad it just goes to show how pathetic our O-line really is now because Fitz would kill to have that O-line. The 96 O-line would knock our current O-line on its ass.

 

What first hand knowledge do you have about the Bills 1996 season or line? You were what, about 10? Name recognition and 'statistical analysis' aside, you have no clue.

 

Then again, you're the contrarian who rejects the notion of gravity even when the rock bonks you on the head.

[Guest dog14787]

What first hand knowledge do you have about the Bills 1996 season or line? You were what, about 10? Name recognition and 'statistical analysis' aside, you have no clue.

 

Then again, you're the contrarian who rejects the notion of gravity even when the rock bonks you on the head.

 

 

I have been working on a anti-gravitational device...

 

 

Old or not buddy, Veteran linemen beats out having zero experience and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

[No QB - No Bueno]

I have been working on a anti-gravitational device...

 

 

Old or not buddy, Veteran linemen beats out having zero experience and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

 

Given your vast experience as a simpleton, I'll defer to your logic.

[dave mcbride]

I have been working on a anti-gravitational device...

 

 

Old or not buddy, Veteran linemen beats out having zero experience and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Did you watch those 1996 games? I did -- every one of them. In fact, we old timers regularly dissected how bad it was on this board that year. The Bills were a very popular pick to go to the Super Bowl that year because their defense was so strong. Moreover, the team had really bounced back in 1995.

 

Trust me, that line was terrible. It cost the Bills a number of games and it was the primary culprit in ending Kelly's career a year or two too soon. That was a team that had 13-3 talent outside of the o-line.

[Guest dog14787]

Did you watch those 1996 games? I did -- every one of them. In fact, we old timers regularly dissected how bad it was on this board that year. The Bills were a very popular pick to go to the Super Bowl that year because their defense was so strong. Moreover, the team had really bounced back in 1995.

 

Trust me, that line was terrible. It cost the Bills a number of games and it was the primary culprit in ending Kelly's career a year or two too soon. That was a team that had 13-3 talent outside of the o-line.

 

 

I also watched every game and I wasn't ten at the time, Kelly always was slow on his feet and the knee injuries started catching up with him. You want to blame Kelly's demise on the O-line then be my guest, but its not even close to as bad as the O-line we have now.

 

Kent Hull had what 4 pro bowls, Ruben Brown 3 Pro Bowls, John Fina selected in the 1st round, Parker in the 3rd

 

Get out of here man.

[Spiderweb]

I will never be convinced that the Bills have ever had a line this bad.

 

Been a Bills fan since, well, going on my 5th decade, and I've seen some pretty bad ones, and this one is in the to 3, for sure.........

[dave mcbride]

Get out of here man.

??

 

Also, I never said you were 10. You can stick with the pro bowl numbers and draft slots; I'll rely on what I saw (i.e., giving up 9 sacks in the Kingdome late in the season). I'm not saying that this line isn't horrible, btw.

[Bill from NYC]

Did you watch those 1996 games? I did -- every one of them. In fact, we old timers regularly dissected how bad it was on this board that year. The Bills were a very popular pick to go to the Super Bowl that year because their defense was so strong. Moreover, the team had really bounced back in 1995.

 

Trust me, that line was terrible. It cost the Bills a number of games and it was the primary culprit in ending Kelly's career a year or two too soon. That was a team that had 13-3 talent outside of the o-line.

 

When the Bills brought in Big Ted and Bryce, things changed. The Bills defense was very talented and aggressive. Bryce had 17 1/2 sacks and was the defensive player of the year. Teams had to worry about Bryce and Bruce to the point where Hansen was providing sacks and pressure but the Bills, due to their OL had a poor offense. Even those great defenses seemd to tire at time at the end of games.

 

Injuries to key players, especially linebackers, took their toll. We lost Cowart, Holocek, Covington and Speillmann in what seemed to be minutes. Still, even with all the names, the offense was what hurt this team, especially the OL and of course QB. Marcus Spriggs, Jerry Ostroski and Jamie Nails protecting Rob Johnson wasn't going to work, and these are only a few of the horrible players we had up front.

 

This team is actually worse because Levy/Jauron put a huge majority of their best resources into the secondary to the point that is beyond comprehension. While it isn't their fault that Butler and Wood got hurt, we all know very well that we entered this season with an OL which was extremely shaky at best, and a small, weak defense.

 

The damage can be undone, but it is going to take a truly professional GM and a coach with a clue.

[Doc]

Time to see Brohm.

Yeah...let's get him killed too.....NEXT!

 

PTR

We know that Trent and Ryan aren't the answers at QB. To not play Brohm because he'll get killed, and instead going with the other guys and letting them continue to get killed, doesn't make any sense. Brohm should start to see what, if anything, he's got. Because the last thing the Bills need to is sign or draft (high) a real QB when they have one sitting on their roster. And if Brohm proves not to be the guy, they'll know and looking for a new QB will be the right thing to do.

[PromoTheRobot]

We know that Trent and Ryan aren't the answers at QB. To not play Brohm because he'll get killed, and instead going with the other guys and letting them continue to get killed, doesn't make any sense. Brohm should start to see what, if anything, he's got. Because the last thing the Bills need to is sign or draft (high) a real QB when they have one sitting on their roster. And if Brohm proves not to be the guy, they'll know and looking for a new QB will be the right thing to do.

Brohm will probably get some snaps this year, but Fewell said he hasn't grasped the offense enough to start. You don't think opposing defenses will know that? If we run a basic offense, they will take away Brohm's options, and then cream him with the blitz that our line is uncapable of stopping. So what is the point of starting Brohm if he is going to be getting sacked on every play?

 

I know it's really hard for some people to grasp but QB is not this team's only problem.

 

PTR

[Doc]

Brohm will probably get some snaps this year, but Fewell said he hasn't grasped the offense enough to start. You don't think opposing defenses will know that? If we run a basic offense, they will take away Brohm's options, and then cream him with the blitz that our line is uncapable of stopping. So what is the point of starting Brohm if he is going to be getting sacked on every play?

 

I know it's really hard for some people to grasp but QB is not this team's only problem.

What's also apparently hard to grasp is that the O-line isn't going to suddenly become a wall and protect whatever QB is back there; at least not this year. The idea isn't for Brohm to put up Pro Bowl caliber numbers, but to see how he performs behind a shaky O-line, as well as the occasional times they provide decent protection. What are you saving him for: next year, when the Bills probably sign or draft a QB who they plan on starting, relegating Brohm to the bench? Are you worried the team will lose more games, as if that makes any difference at this point?

[Buftex]

Kelly did play behind that offensive line in 1996, which was just about as bad as this one. The Bills went 10-6, although Kelly had a crappy season.

 

C'mon man! A line with Kent Hull (albeit aging) and Ruben Brown (albeit a little overrated) could not have been as bad as the line we have now... I remember that Glenn Parker was everyones' whipping boy, but he wasn't nearly as bad as Bills fans made him out to be. When things are going bad, we tend to blame the O-line for everything... at times, the level of their play (as in 1996) is used to excuse away other problems with the team, particularly from fans who had grown so accustomed to winning. Make no mistake, that 1996 line was far superior to what this years lineup has had to offer. Having a competant NFL QB makes a line that much better.

[Albany,n.y.]

We know that Trent and Ryan aren't the answers at QB. To not play Brohm because he'll get killed, and instead going with the other guys and letting them continue to get killed, doesn't make any sense. Brohm should start to see what, if anything, he's got. Because the last thing the Bills need to is sign or draft (high) a real QB when they have one sitting on their roster. And if Brohm proves not to be the guy, they'll know and looking for a new QB will be the right thing to do.

It really depends on what the coaches are seeing in practice-something we don't have enough information on. If he's not yet grasping the offense, or the guy is showing he's nothing better than a practice squad talent, they really can't throw him in there just to see what they have. Like it or not, the head coach is doing everything he can to field the best team he can, because he is looking at making himself look good to his next employer. If he can field a competitive team he can have that on his resume for the future. He's still thinking he can have a miracle finish and be a head coach here or elsewhere in the future. If he knows that Brohm isn't ready and the team is going to look worse with him in there, and possibly face a veteran revolt, he's not going to send Brohm in. Unfortunately, Perry cannot treat this team like he's in the 1st year of a 5 year contract & look to the future. For Perry Fewell, the future is now & the QB that he feels gives him the best chance of winning is Fitzpatrick.

[Thirty Year Fan]

Would you say the mechanics are poor because he had no time to throw the ball with of our non-existent pass protection? I am not saying that Fitz is a great QB. But any NFL QB can throw properly when they have adequate time.

Total agreement Fitz is 2nd string at best . Drew Brees would have looked poor with that line blocking.

[Doc]

It really depends on what the coaches are seeing in practice-something we don't have enough information on. If he's not yet grasping the offense, or the guy is showing he's nothing better than a practice squad talent, they really can't throw him in there just to see what they have. Like it or not, the head coach is doing everything he can to field the best team he can, because he is looking at making himself look good to his next employer. If he can field a competitive team he can have that on his resume for the future. He's still thinking he can have a miracle finish and be a head coach here or elsewhere in the future. If he knows that Brohm isn't ready and the team is going to look worse with him in there, and possibly face a veteran revolt, he's not going to send Brohm in. Unfortunately, Perry cannot treat this team like he's in the 1st year of a 5 year contract & look to the future. For Perry Fewell, the future is now & the QB that he feels gives him the best chance of winning is Fitzpatrick.

True, Fewell will want to field the most competitive team to make himself look good. But the Bills, read Ralph, should be looking to the future and telling Fewell "play Brohm."