State of the Bills live with Jim Kelly...

[SouthernMan]

Could be interesting - Jimbo is live in Toronto...

 

I think everyone is missing the point about Kelly's Cailfornia Qb comments.

 

It has little to do with weather. As one of you posted previously, there are maybe 2 "winter" games each year in Buffalo.

It'd really be interesting to debunk the myth with some facts, and see how much worse the Bills' playing conditions have been as compared to other teams. I'd bet it's negligible.

 

Teams from San Diego still go to Cleveland. Arizona goes to Philly, etc.

 

Looking at the NFL schedule, how many teams actually avoid any chance of a winter outing or two in any given year? Probably very few. I suppose if it's a year when the AFC West is matched up against the NFC West there may be little chance of a snow bowl.

 

I think what Kelly really meant, and has been sidestepping since he was questioned on the comment, is that the Bills have had 3 California QBs this decade and they were all "soft" - lacking the mental toughness more common to the QBs hailing from his native Western PA. Yeah, it's painting with a broad brush. Stereotyping. But, it was another of Kelly's lame attempts at humor.

 

In almost every interview situation (unless it's a charity thing), Kelly's always trying to be funny and makes stupid wisecracks. He lacks the charisma to pull it off. I don't think he's actually as stupid as he appears, but he frequently comes off like a total bafoon while exchanging "clever" banter with the likes of Marshal Faulk - himself no Rhodes Scholar.

 

Anyway, I think Kelly was simply citing the streak of bad fortune the Bills have had in recent years with California QBs. It meant nothing really. Of course he failed to recognize the fact that the only league championship the Bills have ever won came under the guidance of a QB from California!

[Mr. WEO]

I think everyone is missing the point about Kelly's Cailfornia Qb comments.

 

It has little to do with weather. As one of you posted previously, there are maybe 2 "winter" games each year in Buffalo.

It'd really be interesting to debunk the myth with some facts, and see how much worse the Bills' playing conditions have been as compared to other teams. I'd bet it's negligible.

 

Teams from San Diego still go to Cleveland. Arizona goes to Philly, etc.

 

Looking at the NFL schedule, how many teams actually avoid any chance of a winter outing or two in any given year? Probably very few. I suppose if it's a year when the AFC West is matched up against the NFC West there may be little chance of a snow bowl.

 

I think what Kelly really meant, and has been sidestepping since he was questioned on the comment, is that the Bills have had 3 California QBs this decade and they were all "soft" - lacking the mental toughness more common to the QBs hailing from his native Western PA. Yeah, it's painting with a broad brush. Stereotyping. But, it was another of Kelly's lame attempts at humor.

 

In almost every interview situation (unless it's a charity thing), Kelly's always trying to be funny and makes stupid wisecracks. He lacks the charisma to pull it off. I don't think he's actually as stupid as he appears, but he frequently comes off like a total bafoon while exchanging "clever" banter with the likes of Marshal Faulk - himself no Rhodes Scholar.

 

Anyway, I think Kelly was simply citing the streak of bad fortune the Bills have had in recent years with California QBs. It meant nothing really. Of course he failed to recognize the fact that the only league championship the Bills have ever won came under the guidance of a QB from California!

Well put. Some folks are slower than others...

 

 

Speaking of which, I think youn give Jimbo too much credit---wasn't he spouting this same "Cali QBs can't play in the cold" stuff on the radio recently?

[RayFinkle]

...In almost every interview situation (unless it's a charity thing), Kelly's always trying to be funny and makes stupid wisecracks. He lacks the charisma to pull it off. I don't think he's actually as stupid as he appears, but he frequently comes off like a total bafoon while exchanging "clever" banter with the likes of Marshal Faulk - himself no Rhodes Scholar.

 

Yes, a hall of fame QB who led his team to 4 Superbowls lacks charisma....

[GG]

Well put. Some folks are slower than others...

 

 

Speaking of which, I think youn give Jimbo too much credit---wasn't he spouting this same "Cali QBs can't play in the cold" stuff on the radio recently?

 

Yeah, people really are very slow.

 

As for the weather angle that you were beating, maybe you can answer how Trent Edwards' game suddenly pick up when it stopped raining vs Seattle and his game instantly died when it started snowing vs Giants. Who knows, maybe some strange cosmic coincidence.

[Peter]

Jimbo sayz:

 

- Said Fitz, Freddy and Perry are on "interviews". We hoped Trent was going to be the guy, but...

- Both he and the fans hoped there would be a coaching change

- Mooch asked about Cali QBs! Jim is saying no Cali guys in Buffalo, calling 'em all soft! lol.

- Dion ax's about conversations with Trent. Jim - you try to keep confidence up. The O line is down, not always Trent's fault. Such is life in the NFL, it's been 3 years, hoped Trent would be the guy on and off the field, but...

- Faulk, look at Trent last year and the crappy O line this year. Jim - the oline did hurt Trent, but guys need to stay in Buffalo all year long and be the guy, the leader we've all been looking for.

 

Jim wishes we had the Jets down in Buffalo this weekend, they're calling for a lot of snow!

 

This from a guy who initially refused to play for the Bills (at least in part) because he thought that the offensive line was not good enough at the time.

 

I loved Kelly as a QB. I hope that he is able to help keep the Bills in Buffalo. Yet, this episode shows that he should not be making personnel decisions.

[reddogblitz]

Many QBs have to play in tough cold wintery weather either at home or on the road. Plenty of those QBs are from warm weather states and likely never saw snow until college or the pros.

Bart Starr was from Alabama and played his college ball at Alabama. He did OK in cold weather.

[Mr. WEO]

Yeah, people really are very slow.

 

As for the weather angle that you were beating, maybe you can answer how Trent Edwards' game suddenly pick up when it stopped raining vs Seattle and his game instantly died when it started snowing vs Giants. Who knows, maybe some strange cosmic coincidence.

Yes, it's a cosmic coincidence that mediocre QBs struggle in inclement weather. Oh, wait--make that all California QBs! hahaha.

 

Hey, I don't know---maybe you can tell how TE beat the Broncos in Denver in 4 degree temp?

 

I'M beating the weather angle?? You are the one who has changed the argument 2 or 3 times now. Look, your silly argument has been trounced by posters other than myself, but keep going. It's a bit of sport to watch.

[GG]

Yes, it's a cosmic coincidence that mediocre QBs struggle in inclement weather. Oh, wait--make that all California QBs! hahaha.

 

Hey, I don't know---maybe you can tell how TE beat the Broncos in Denver in 4 degree temp?

 

Maybe because he was wearing gloves? Was it windy that day? Did it rain? Don't think so. Every single post opposing concerning the weather talked about the rain and wind as the biggest challenge, yet you bring up the cold. It's not the cold, it's water and wind. Simple

 

But, let's play along. Shouldn't be hard since it's all in this thread.

 

I'M beating the weather angle??

Mr WEO 2nd post of the thread:

The Bills play 2 games a year in the Buffalo "winter".

So now it's down to "California QBs can't play in cold weather near large bodies of water"??

Yeah, that's not bring up the weather

You are the one who has changed the argument 2 or 3 times now. Look, your silly argument has been trounced by posters other than myself, but keep going. It's a bit of sport to watch.

Please point to the other posters who trounced me? All I've seen is a constant beat down of your pompous arse.

 

And, I've changed my argument 2 or three times in this thread, even though I only posted 4 times in this one? Let's see:

 

My first post

 

The Bills play 8 games per year in Lake Erie winds, but you wouldn't know that sitting in Gillette stadium, would you?

 

My second post

 

I think that anyone who's watched Bills long enough knows that it's not the cold and the snow that makes home games in Buffalo treacherous, but the wind and the rain.

 

My third post

 

As for the weather angle that you were beating, maybe you can answer how Trent Edwards' game suddenly pick up when it stopped raining vs Seattle and his game instantly died when it started snowing vs Giants. Who knows, maybe some strange cosmic coincidence

 

So, tell me, how is pointing out that the wind and rain are the real big issues at The Ralph changing my argument?

 

I'll be waiting.

[ieatcrayonz]

Hey, I don't know---maybe you can tell how TE beat the Broncos in Denver in 4 degree temp?

Mabe because the Broncos had the worst defense in the history of football and Fred Jackson ran 78 yards after 2 yard throws?

[ColdBlueNorth]

Jim knew how to keep the ball on a rope in the cold. If you go back and watch some of his late season games he wouldn't loft passes real high, rather even with his 20-30 yard passes there was never a lot of air under them. He had one hell of a strong arm, but knew that he needed to keep those passes low.

 

Bledsoe had a similar throw, and it was no secret why he could also thrive in the elements. Too bad he had to end his career getting the crap beaten out of him behind our pathetic line. It seems that every QB we have had ends up shell-shocked after a season of bumps, bruises,...... concussions.

 

Hull, Ballard, Wolford, Ritcher... I never appreciated how rare that collection of skilled linemen was at the time.

 

I thought that JP had a similar arm - passes on a rope, but he never had Jimbo's touch on short and intermediate throws.

 

I think that any young QB with potential will be ruined until we address our glaring need at LT. The rest of tbe offensive line should be set next year if Wood and Butler are back from injury. Hangartner and Levitre are serviceable. It was honestly a whole lot to ask of Levitre and Wood to start right away with all those injuries and shuffling around them, but by the last few games I thought they were both grading out pretty well.

 

Our scouting department has been highly suspect, but I doubt we would benefit much if we flushed them all before this years draft: They have one last draft to get it right for a new coach.

 

Draft the top LT, then address the fact that our defense cannot get off the field and is dead last against the run - pick up the biggest baddest run-stuffer available (someone that could play NT in a 3-4 if needed), shore up the linebacker position, then see what's left. Maybe pick up a journeyman QB via free agency with some potential and draft a prospect QB in 2011.

 

Get a coach that can teach and motivate the troops and we should have some interesting games to watch for a change.

[Mr. WEO]

Maybe because he was wearing gloves? Was it windy that day? Did it rain? Don't think so. Every single post opposing concerning the weather talked about the rain and wind as the biggest challenge, yet you bring up the cold. It's not the cold, it's water and wind. Simple

 

But, let's play along. Shouldn't be hard since it's all in this thread.

 

 

Mr WEO 2nd post of the thread:

 

Yeah, that's not bring up the weather

 

Please point to the other posters who trounced me? All I've seen is a constant beat down of your pompous arse.

 

And, I've changed my argument 2 or three times in this thread, even though I only posted 4 times in this one? Let's see:

 

My first post

 

The Bills play 8 games per year in Lake Erie winds, but you wouldn't know that sitting in Gillette stadium, would you?

 

My second post

 

I think that anyone who's watched Bills long enough knows that it's not the cold and the snow that makes home games in Buffalo treacherous, but the wind and the rain.

 

My third post

 

As for the weather angle that you were beating, maybe you can answer how Trent Edwards' game suddenly pick up when it stopped raining vs Seattle and his game instantly died when it started snowing vs Giants. Who knows, maybe some strange cosmic coincidence

 

So, tell me, how is pointing out that the wind and rain are the real big issues at The Ralph changing my argument?

 

I'll be waiting.

 

The original topic of this thread is Kelly's claim that Cali QBs are soft and can't play in the harsh Buffalo conditions (cold). I and others have pointed out the obvious falsity of this comment. I apologize---I lumped you initially in with bdelma and others who are in the "cold" camp. I will acknolwedge that you are the only one who has extended this ridiculous argument to "wind and rain" and to include the treacherous Buffalo Fall weather to the list of circumstances in which all these California QBs are genetically unable to function.

 

So let's "play along" and take "cold" out of the general discussion and just consider "wind and rain". Going back at the game day weather descriptions of the Bills home games for 2007 and 2008 (that gets us a nice mix of the best Cali has to offer--JP and TE), let's see what the data tells us about the harshness of everyday weather in Buffalo in the fall and how it negatively affected the play of these Sunny State Softies:

 

In 2007, six of the 8 home games were played at game time temps of greater than 50 degrees. Only 2 of those listed any precipitation at all (one "drizzle", one "sprinkles"). Only 2 listed winds of greater than 11 mph, or any gusts. Of the "rainy" games (being very liberal with that term), the Bills won 1, lost 1. Of the "windy" games, again they split them. Of note, in a game which had cold/freezing rain/wind, TE threw for 4 TDs.

 

In 2008, the Bills won 2 games that recorded "showers" or "chance of rain"and lost one. They lost 2 "windy" games, but then again, they lost games with "calm" winds also.

 

So, we see two things:

 

First, what most Buffalo/Rochester residents figured out pretty quickly:the summer and fall in this region is typically great weather (Spring---not so nice!) and that the claim that "wind and rain" are significant factors for the first half or 2/3 of the season is pure nonsense.

 

Second, even the sadly skilled Cali QBs we have had in Buffalo were clearly not affected by either "wind" nor "rain".

 

So, my original disagreement with Kelly's comment stands (and was repeated in posts by DML, DRS, 3cheese, chimp, McBride, Beebe's, Cocktoson, Tcali). Bad QBs are bad everywhere. Good QBs can play anywhere no matter where they went to High School. It seems silly to have to state something so intuitive.....but there you go.

[GG]

The original topic of this thread is Kelly's claim that Cali QBs are soft and can't play in the harsh Buffalo conditions (cold).

 

No the original topic was that Kelly said that Bills need a mentally tough QB to play in Buffalo, of which harsh weather is a big part. I didn't hear the radio nor the TV spot, but Heitz's post referred to "harsh conditions" not just "cold" That's why the topic centers around rain & wind. In the one game you decided to highlight, Mary threw for 90 yards in 3.5 quarters before he hooked up with Evans for the 70 yarder at the end. If it wasn't for the defense & ST giving him great field position, it's doubtful he gets 4 TDs.

 

I think it helps to watch the games.

 

I and others have pointed out the obvious falsity of this comment. I apologize---I lumped you initially in with bdelma and others who are in the "cold" camp. I will acknolwedge that you are the only one who has extended this ridiculous argument to "wind and rain" and to include the treacherous Buffalo Fall weather to the list of circumstances in which all these California QBs are genetically unable to function.

 

So let's "play along" and take "cold" out of the general discussion and just consider "wind and rain". Going back at the game day weather descriptions of the Bills home games for 2007 and 2008 (that gets us a nice mix of the best Cali has to offer--JP and TE), let's see what the data tells us about the harshness of everyday weather in Buffalo in the fall and how it negatively affected the play of these Sunny State Softies:

 

In 2007, six of the 8 home games were played at game time temps of greater than 50 degrees. Only 2 of those listed any precipitation at all (one "drizzle", one "sprinkles"). Only 2 listed winds of greater than 11 mph, or any gusts. Of the "rainy" games (being very liberal with that term), the Bills won 1, lost 1. Of the "windy" games, again they split them. Of note, in a game which had cold/freezing rain/wind, TE threw for 4 TDs.

 

In 2008, the Bills won 2 games that recorded "showers" or "chance of rain"and lost one. They lost 2 "windy" games, but then again, they lost games with "calm" winds also.

 

So, we see two things:

 

First, what most Buffalo/Rochester residents figured out pretty quickly:the summer and fall in this region is typically great weather (Spring---not so nice!) and that the claim that "wind and rain" are significant factors for the first half or 2/3 of the season is pure nonsense.

 

Second, even the sadly skilled Cali QBs we have had in Buffalo were clearly not affected by either "wind" nor "rain".

 

So, my original disagreement with Kelly's comment stands (and was repeated in posts by DML, DRS, 3cheese, chimp, McBride, Beebe's, Cocktoson, Tcali). Bad QBs are bad everywhere. Good QBs can play anywhere no matter where they went to High School. It seems silly to have to state something so intuitive.....but there you go.

 

The reason that's brought up is that Edwards definitely had much worse outings in inclement weather than in good weather.

The other guys were bad, but there's also a long history of recent failures of West Coast QBs. Nice that you have to dig to bring up Elway, Palmer & Brady. But those three are totally overshadowed by Leinart, Losman, Edwards, et al. Should I bring up the greats that were Todd Marinovish & Dan McGuire?

 

For whatever reason Kelly brough up California QBs, is that there is a history of failed west coast QB in the NFL. Given the long standing animus in WNY towards California JK picked the one state that is representative of the region. Call it what you want, but West Coast is softer than East Coast and that's what I believe he was referring to. When that softness translates to going in a shell when the elements get tough and you're too afraid to leave your hotel room during a snowstorm, then hey, you don't belong in Buffalo.

 

Nor do you when you can't throw a tight spiral in the wind. Few CA QBs had to face those conditions in college, so given past history you're probably wise to stay away from those guys instead of taking a chance on whether they can handle living and succeeding in WNY.

[Flbillsfan#1]

No the original topic was that Kelly said that Bills need a mentally tough QB to play in Buffalo, of which harsh weather is a big part. I didn't hear the radio nor the TV spot, but Heitz's post referred to "harsh conditions" not just "cold" That's why the topic centers around rain & wind. In the one game you decided to highlight, Mary threw for 90 yards in 3.5 quarters before he hooked up with Evans for the 70 yarder at the end. If it wasn't for the defense & ST giving him great field position, it's doubtful he gets 4 TDs.

 

I think it helps to watch the games.

 

 

 

The reason that's brought up is that Edwards definitely had much worse outings in inclement weather than in good weather.

The other guys were bad, but there's also a long history of recent failures of West Coast QBs. Nice that you have to dig to bring up Elway, Palmer & Brady. But those three are totally overshadowed by Leinart, Losman, Edwards, et al. Should I bring up the greats that were Todd Marinovish & Dan McGuire?

 

For whatever reason Kelly brough up California QBs, is that there is a history of failed west coast QB in the NFL. Given the long standing animus in WNY towards California JK picked the one state that is representative of the region. Call it what you want, but West Coast is softer than East Coast and that's what I believe he was referring to. When that softness translates to going in a shell when the elements get tough and you're too afraid to leave your hotel room during a snowstorm, then hey, you don't belong in Buffalo.

 

Nor do you when you can't throw a tight spiral in the wind. Few CA QBs had to face those conditions in college, so given past history you're probably wise to stay away from those guys instead of taking a chance on whether they can handle living and succeeding in WNY.

Great post.

[Mr. WEO]

No the original topic was that Kelly said that Bills need a mentally tough QB to play in Buffalo, of which harsh weather is a big part. I didn't hear the radio nor the TV spot, but Heitz's post referred to "harsh conditions" not just "cold" That's why the topic centers around rain & wind. In the one game you decided to highlight, Mary threw for 90 yards in 3.5 quarters before he hooked up with Evans for the 70 yarder at the end. If it wasn't for the defense & ST giving him great field position, it's doubtful he gets 4 TDs.

 

I think it helps to watch the games.

 

 

 

The reason that's brought up is that Edwards definitely had much worse outings in inclement weather than in good weather.

The other guys were bad, but there's also a long history of recent failures of West Coast QBs. Nice that you have to dig to bring up Elway, Palmer & Brady. But those three are totally overshadowed by Leinart, Losman, Edwards, et al. Should I bring up the greats that were Todd Marinovish & Dan McGuire?

 

For whatever reason Kelly brough up California QBs, is that there is a history of failed west coast QB in the NFL. Given the long standing animus in WNY towards California JK picked the one state that is representative of the region. Call it what you want, but West Coast is softer than East Coast and that's what I believe he was referring to. When that softness translates to going in a shell when the elements get tough and you're too afraid to leave your hotel room during a snowstorm, then hey, you don't belong in Buffalo.

 

Nor do you when you can't throw a tight spiral in the wind. Few CA QBs had to face those conditions in college, so given past history you're probably wise to stay away from those guys instead of taking a chance on whether they can handle living and succeeding in WNY.

 

If you watched all these games, you wouldn't have brought up "wind and rain". I've already showed you how the "harshness" you keep harping on just doesn't exist for the vast majority of the Bills home games. These "afraid to leave your hotel room during a snowstorm" episodes you conjure up are pure fantasy.

 

So, since Jim Kelly himself never "had to face these conditions in college", the Bills would have been "wise to stay away from" him? Come on!!!!

 

You could bring up Marinovich, who played in Oakland and Maguire (Seattle) but I am not sure how this helps your argument-----oh, wait, "it rains a lot in Seattle" I guess is your point. In fact, you can probably come up with a long list of crappy NFL QBs from Cali (or Florida, Texas etc.)---problem is they sucked in cold weather cities, domes and warm cities.

 

Each point you bring up negates your argument. Also amusing (and predictable) is your explaining away TEs 4 TD performance in cold, wet, windy ("harsh, no?) conditions as....luck.

 

Actually, there's a long history success regarding Cali QBs (or other "soft weather" states). 8 of the last 12 SBs were won by QBs from California or Lousiana. 3 of those QBs played for cold weather teams. Before them there was Favre, perhaps the best cold weather QB ever (and who likely never saw snow until his first season in GB) and Aikman--who had to play teams like GB, Giants, Philly on the road in the winter. Did just fine._In fact how many QBs who are from "harsh weather states" have succeeded at the highest level in the NFL in the last dozen years? Warner, Big Ben........

 

Look, you can continue to believe what makes you comfortable, such as "California QBs cannot succeed in Buffalo because California QBs can't handle its every Suday "harsh wind and rain"". But history has clearly proven this false. You cannot simply imagine away actual weather conditions!

 

I will state the obvious again: great QBs from anywhere can play anywhere. Drawing your conclusions from Buffalo's awful QB selections (who were coincidentally from California) is a selection bias.

 

Also, you somehow don't realize that the majority of QB prospects for the NFL are citizens of California, Texas, Florida---mainly because they are prepping year round. There simply is no cold weather or northeastern QB factory that you and Jimbo imagine is creating our next QB.

 

Therefore to continue to simply exclude all QBs from an entire state, be it california or any other, is just senseless.

[Williams+Williams+Williams]

I think that Kelly is completely wrong about CA QBs, but throwing Fouts back at him is a ridiculous example. He had an infamous flameout (or should I say freeze out?) against Cincy in 1981 in a brutally cold AFC championship game. The Chargers had one of the greatest offenses in league history that year, but they were pathetic in the cold, losing 27-7.

 

Name a CA QB that was succesful in the northeast? Also, learn how to post competent sentences - wtf is a flameout?

[Williams+Williams+Williams]

If you watched all these games, you wouldn't have brought up "wind and rain". I've already showed you how the "harshness" you keep harping on just doesn't exist for the vast majority of the Bills home games. These "afraid to leave your hotel room during a snowstorm" episodes you conjure up are pure fantasy.

 

So, since Jim Kelly himself never "had to face these conditions in college", the Bills would have been "wise to stay away from" him? Come on!!!!

 

You could bring up Marinovich, who played in Oakland and Maguire (Seattle) but I am not sure how this helps your argument-----oh, wait, "it rains a lot in Seattle" I guess is your point. In fact, you can probably come up with a long list of crappy NFL QBs from Cali (or Florida, Texas etc.)---problem is they sucked in cold weather cities, domes and warm cities.

 

Each point you bring up negates your argument. Also amusing (and predictable) is your explaining away TEs 4 TD performance in cold, wet, windy ("harsh, no?) conditions as....luck.

 

Actually, there's a long history success regarding Cali QBs (or other "soft weather" states). 8 of the last 12 SBs were won by QBs from California or Lousiana. 3 of those QBs played for cold weather teams. Before them there was Favre, perhaps the best cold weather QB ever (and who likely never saw snow until his first season in GB) and Aikman--who had to play teams like GB, Giants, Philly on the road in the winter. Did just fine._In fact how many QBs who are from "harsh weather states" have succeeded at the highest level in the NFL in the last dozen years? Warner, Big Ben........

 

Look, you can continue to believe what makes you comfortable, such as "California QBs cannot succeed in Buffalo because California QBs can't handle its every Suday "harsh wind and rain"". But history has clearly proven this false. You cannot simply imagine away actual weather conditions!

 

I will state the obvious again: great QBs from anywhere can play anywhere. Drawing your conclusions from Buffalo's awful QB selections (who were coincidentally from California) is a selection bias.

 

Also, you somehow don't realize that the majority of QB prospects for the NFL are citizens of California, Texas, Florida---mainly because they are prepping year round. There simply is no cold weather or northeastern QB factory that you and Jimbo imagine is creating our next QB.

 

Therefore to continue to simply exclude all QBs from an entire state, be it california or any other, is just senseless.

 

Every single QB you named that was succesful in the cold was not from California.

[GG]

If you watched all these games, you wouldn't have brought up "wind and rain". I've already showed you how the "harshness" you keep harping on just doesn't exist for the vast majority of the Bills home games. These "afraid to leave your hotel room during a snowstorm" episodes you conjure up are pure fantasy.

 

You may want to check the history of the last three CA QBs in Buffalo.

 

So, since Jim Kelly himself never "had to face these conditions in college", the Bills would have been "wise to stay away from" him? Come on!!!!

 

You could bring up Marinovich, who played in Oakland and Maguire (Seattle) but I am not sure how this helps your argument-----oh, wait, "it rains a lot in Seattle" I guess is your point. In fact, you can probably come up with a long list of crappy NFL QBs from Cali (or Florida, Texas etc.)---problem is they sucked in cold weather cities, domes and warm cities.

 

Each point you bring up negates your argument. Also amusing (and predictable) is your explaining away TEs 4 TD performance in cold, wet, windy ("harsh, no?) conditions as....luck.

 

Actually, there's a long history success regarding Cali QBs (or other "soft weather" states). 8 of the last 12 SBs were won by QBs from California or Lousiana. 3 of those QBs played for cold weather teams. Before them there was Favre, perhaps the best cold weather QB ever (and who likely never saw snow until his first season in GB) and Aikman--who had to play teams like GB, Giants, Philly on the road in the winter. Did just fine._In fact how many QBs who are from "harsh weather states" have succeeded at the highest level in the NFL in the last dozen years? Warner, Big Ben........

 

Look, you can continue to believe what makes you comfortable, such as "California QBs cannot succeed in Buffalo because California QBs can't handle its every Suday "harsh wind and rain"". But history has clearly proven this false. You cannot simply imagine away actual weather conditions!

 

I will state the obvious again: great QBs from anywhere can play anywhere. Drawing your conclusions from Buffalo's awful QB selections (who were coincidentally from California) is a selection bias.

 

Also, you somehow don't realize that the majority of QB prospects for the NFL are citizens of California, Texas, Florida---mainly because they are prepping year round. There simply is no cold weather or northeastern QB factory that you and Jimbo imagine is creating our next QB.

 

Therefore to continue to simply exclude all QBs from an entire state, be it california or any other, is just senseless.

 

I'm glad that I'm the one who changes arguments, because I really need someone to double check where I brought up Louisiana or Texas QBs, or other warm weather QBs into this thread. Oh wait I didn't because the topic is about California QBs.

 

It also follows Kelly's logic in slamming CA QBs. I wonder why he thinks that Tebow would be a good QB for Buffalo, even though the kid never played in the cold? So there must be something special about the CA QBs and not about warm weather QBs from other places (which again are not part of this topic).

 

Funny how you bring in self selection. I wonder if Kelly was referring to the fact that maybe California QBs are also a self selecting crew that prefers the wimpy confines of the Pac 10 than to get mauled in the SEC or Big 10? Self selection actually does work, and players tend to go to schools that fit their personalities. In the cases of QBs, California QBs fit the stereotype. Yeah, there are exceptions, like Brady. But that's why rules are created, so the world and Mr WEOs can proclaim the exceptions to be the rule, not exceptions.

 

If you read between the lines, Kelly and I'm sure most Bills fans would be happier with players from the SEC and Big 10 than Pac 10.