duey Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 what you are missing is probably the hardest piece of the puzzle for the human mind to comprehend, so forgive me if i cant explain it that well. basically, there is no "where" they were in the sideways world, and there is no "when". the two stories (main time line and sideways) are not occurring at the same time. if you want to try to define it's chronological occurrence, it would probably be thousands of years from now. but since time is relative, it's just a few days for Jack within the sideways world. the sideways world is a purgatory illusion created by the LOSTIES so they could all find each other and move on together. some were already dead when we started viewing it. some died while we were viewing it. others died much later after the finale (kate, sawyer, hurley, etc). so they are all dead eventually. and now they were able to find each other and (thanks to Desmond) remember why they were all there together. so their souls could move on together. just like how an entire life time of time can occurr in an instant for someone else. the rules of real world time do not apply. My thoughts exactly. I think they all had to "wait" until the last of them died, which I imagine is Hurley or Ben or both (given that I'm sure they protected the island for a time frame of similar length as Jacob and Richard did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 what you are missing is probably the hardest piece of the puzzle for the human mind to comprehend, so forgive me if i cant explain it that well. basically, there is no "where" they were in the sideways world, and there is no "when". the two stories (main time line and sideways) are not occurring at the same time. if you want to try to define it's chronological occurrence, it would probably be thousands of years from now. but since time is relative, it's just a few days for Jack within the sideways world. the sideways world is a purgatory illusion created by the LOSTIES so they could all find each other and move on together. some were already dead when we started viewing it. some died while we were viewing it. others died much later after the finale (kate, sawyer, hurley, etc). so they are all dead eventually. and now they were able to find each other and (thanks to Desmond) remember why they were all there together. so their souls could move on together. just like how an entire life time of time can occurr in an instant for someone else. the rules of real world time do not apply. That's a good explanation, and I thought of something like that. But the reason it still doesn't work for me is, IF that were true, and if we're going to believe in it, why did they go to such great lengths to show how every single other thing in this sideways world was logical and possible within its framework. Again, they didn't take anything out of a "real world" scenario except that time of birth. Anything else, it seems to me, could have happened in a parallel universe in real time, or even in a "purgatory" world. EDIT: I suppose you could say that Sun and Locke recovering so fast from their surgeries and walking out was impossible but one does hear stories about things like that actually happening. Perhaps there were others, if not many others that I am not thinking of that were out of the realm of possibility. Again, anything is okay IMO and anything is possible if you're placing it in a world you create outside of the real world. I was just commenting on why that seemed to me to be the only thing that wasn't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 That's a good explanation, and I thought of something like that. But the reason it still doesn't work for me is, IF that were true, and if we're going to believe in it, why did they go to such great lengths to show how every single other thing in this sideways world was logical and possible within its framework. Again, they didn't take anything out of a "real world" scenario except that time of birth. Anything else, it seems to me, could have happened in a parallel universe in real time, or even in a "purgatory" world. EDIT: I suppose you could say that Sun and Locke recovering so fast from their surgeries and walking out was impossible but one does hear stories about things like that actually happening. Perhaps there were others, if not many others that I am not thinking of that were out of the realm of possibility. Again, anything is okay IMO and anything is possible if you're placing it in a world you create outside of the real world. I was just commenting on why that seemed to me to be the only thing that wasn't possible. to setup the "realizations" to be even more emotional. these souls were so bound together, that they went through very great lengths to fool themselves until they could all be together again. they built an illusion of a completely believable world so they could find each other, so that no one would move on until they were all there together. if there were weird things going on, dreamlike things, smart people like Jack or Sawyer wouldve figured out something was up before the rest of them got there. this world kept their souls at bay until they could be together. plus, i imagine souls that are not ready to move on as being very stubborn, so much so that they can not see that they are actually dead. not until they come into contact with their real "real life" love, and then they "see the light" (pun fully intended). again, we dont really have terminology or definitions for this type of thing in everyday life, so forgive me if it's not explained well. i cant really explain it. not sure anyone can. it just is. as long as you believe in it. wrt the edit, remember Sun "healed" AFTER her realization. they had their awakening and realized that they were already dead and this world was an illusion. so she wasnt really shot anyways. just like Locke didn't need his wheelchair whether Jack fixed him or not. They could do "impossible" things at anytime had they had their realizations earlier. but just like those living in the Matrix, when you believe it's real only then do the real world rules apply. that is what helped them wait for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Apologies to all the impressionist lovers out there but I have a few questions. 1. When did Boone have his epiphany? 2. Wasn't the ladder knocked over when Sawyer climbed down with FLocke? 3. How did the boat get back to the main island? Sawyer and company stole it. FLocke came back on an outrigger, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 to setup the "realizations" to be even more emotional. these souls were so bound together, that they went through very great lengths to fool themselves until they could all be together again. they built an illusion of a completely believable world so they could find each other, so that no one would move on until they were all there together. if there were weird things going on, dreamlike things, smart people like Jack or Sawyer wouldve figured out something was up before the rest of them got there. this world kept their souls at bay until they could be together. plus, i imagine souls that are not ready to move on as being very stubborn, so much so that they can not see that they are actually dead. not until they come into contact with their real "real life" love, and then they "see the light" (pun fully intended). I guess I think that if I am going to go with that explanation, which again was well thought out and explained, each person would have to have their own "purgatory" or sideways world. So were we seeing just one of them? Like Jack's? Or is there only one which they all partake in to be together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 wrt the edit, remember Sun "healed" AFTER her realization. they had their awakening and realized that they were already dead and this world was an illusion. so she wasnt really shot anyways. just like Locke didn't need his wheelchair whether Jack fixed him or not. They could do "impossible" things at anytime had they had their realizations earlier. but just like those living in the Matrix, when you believe it's real only then do the real world rules apply. that is what helped them wait for each other. Fair enough. Again, I think very literally at times when looking at stuff like this. It seems like they went way out of their way to get all this stuff to happen simultaneously, in a mostly if not perfectly "real" world scenario, so the audience would believe it is happening, and so all the characters would all converge at the same place at the same time to go off into the light together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 I guess I think that if I am going to go with that explanation, which again was well thought out and explained, each person would have to have their own "purgatory" or sideways world. So were we seeing just one of them? Like Jack's? Or is there only one which they all partake in to be together? these souls had such a major life-changing event together that they were bound together. while im sure some people could have their own purgatory, these souls shared one. they shared one because they wanted to be together when it was time to move on. when they were all brought to the island, they were lost and alone. this struggle gave them each other. it gave them family. the sideways world we saw was everyone's both together and individually. remember, there is still Alex and Roussau which Ben is going to help. they will most likely move on together when they are ready. etc. the big motto of the series for the real world events was "Live Together, Die Alone". what we saw is that they actually live together, and are together again in death. because they have each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 but just like those living in the Matrix, when you believe it's real only then do the real world rules apply. There it is...I was waiting for someone to make a Matrix reference. And in that regard, I thought Jacks leap at Locke on the cliff was very Matrix like! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 But it's not unfair to ask why the shows creators made us follow through endless wormholes that, in the end, did not matter. Hey, it mattered to ABC and affiliate advertising sales! I'm satisfied with the finale, especially (as many have said) the first 2.25 hours. Since season four, the thing that's kept me a fan has been the characters, rather than the plot anyway. Last night's series of vignettes on how the characters 'awoke' to their true situation was very well done. And seeing them all together in the church, partcularly the cast members who had died in earlier seasons, was a wonderful way to send the series off. I suppose Jack 'dying alone, so he could live together' in eternity with the people he most cared about completes the circle in a very nice way. As I posted a few weeks ago, I'll remember the cast/characters long after the plot gets fuzzy with memory (that shouldn't take too long!)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Hey, it mattered to ABC and affiliate advertising sales! I'm satisfied with the finale, especially (as many have said) the first 2.25 hours. Since season four, the thing that's kept me a fan has been the characters, rather than the plot anyway. Last night's series of vignettes on how the characters 'awoke' to their true situation was very well done. And seeing them all together in the church, partcularly the cast members who had died in earlier seasons, was a wonderful way to send the series off. I suppose Jack 'dying alone, so he could live together' in eternity with the people he most cared about completes the circle in a very nice way. As I posted a few weeks ago, I'll remember the cast/characters long after the plot gets fuzzy with memory (that shouldn't take too long!)... Good post. The characters and their relationships/arcs were always far better than the plotlines, IMO. It's what made the show, what makes most great shows and films anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 starting late this summer: http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Complete-Col ... 06&sr=8-11 accompanied by: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/075666 ... bxgy_01_01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockport Bills Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Did anyone else laugh when Kate first shot at Locke? Just kept firing away, but she got him in the end. It was also cool to see Hurley finally give Ben the opportunity that Jacob never even offered him. How did Jack get out of the Light hole? Did he flash like Desmond did when the Hatch imploded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 How did Jack get out of the Light hole? Did he flash like Desmond did when the Hatch imploded? I'm assuming he washed out. Seems like he came to in the same spot where MIB's body was found after he went into the light tube. How did Ben get out from under the tree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 (a) Eloise when asking (very protectively) Desmond if he is here to take her son and he replies "Yes, but not with me....." - that was an amazing interchange that revealed a lot and helped me resolve a lot about the show. Great. Yeah it came across to me as Desmond was saying screw you after all the BS you've put me through. And while he wasn't taking Daniel it seemed like the reason was because Daniel wasn't ready, not as any kind of a favor to Eloise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 How did Ben get out from under the tree? Great question, and one I was wondering as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockport Bills Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 How did Ben get out from under the tree? Ben was always a snake, so I'm guessing he just slithered out!! or they just lifted up the tree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Where did Kate get her change of clothes inside the church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 Did anyone else laugh when Kate first shot at Locke? Just kept firing away, but she got him in the end. Actually I think she shot him in the back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 Where did Kate get her change of clothes inside the church? Scott...Locke just had major back surgery and Sun was recovering from being shot and both were able to just get up and walk away...and you're wondering about where Kate got a different outfit?! It's friggin' heaven for Gods sake! Hurley could have snapped his fingers and a bucket of Mr. Clucks would have appeared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 Apologies to all the impressionist lovers out there but I have a few questions. 1. When did Boone have his epiphany? 2. Wasn't the ladder knocked over when Sawyer climbed down with FLocke? 3. How did the boat get back to the main island? Sawyer and company stole it. FLocke came back on an outrigger, right? 1. Boone really wasn't a huge character, so I believe the writers just left us to assume that Hurly had enlightened him at some point and time, when wasn't relevant to the story. 2. It looked like pieces of the ladder were missing to me. 3. They never showed how Jack, Sawyer, Hugo, and Kate got back to the main island, so I am assuming they used Flocke's boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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