CBO scores the Senate Health Bill

[drnykterstein]

And yet...you're one of only three people to wish me a happy "birfday" here today. And the other two don't like me either. Figure that **** out...

 

I do hate your avatar.

[GG]

But something had to be done IMMEDIATELY, so they went ahead and did something, even if it was worthless.

 

 

Something to keep in mind for the health insurance debate.

 

Kinda like cutting your best tackle two days before the opening game of the season. Something had to be done.

[Magox]

Here's a good article that critiques both sides of the argument.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...id=opinionsbox1

 

The rise of health-care nation has confounded America's political and intellectual leaders, of both left and right. No one wants to appear unfeeling by denying anyone treatment that seems needed; no one wants to endorse openly meddling with doctors' independence. It's easier to perpetuate and enlarge the status quo than to undertake the difficult job of restructuring the health-care system to provide better and less costly care.

 

Obama's health-care proposals may be undesirable (they are), but it's mindless to oppose them -- as many Republicans do -- by screaming that they'll lead to "rationing." Almost everything in society is "rationed," either by price (if you can't afford it, you can't buy it) or explicit political decisions (school boards have budgets). Health care is an exception; it enjoys an open tab. The central political problem of health-care nation is to find effective and acceptable ways to limit medical spending.

 

Democrats are no better. Obama talks hypocritically about restraining deficits and controlling health costs while his program would increase spending and worsen the budget outlook. Democrats congratulate themselves on caring for the uninsured -- who already receive much care -- while avoiding any major overhaul of the delivery system. The resulting society discriminates against the young and increasingly assigns economic resources and political choice to an unrestrained medical-industrial complex.

[Magox]

As soon as I heard this, I thought to myself, "What a desperate comment"

 

http://thehill.com//blogs/blog-briefing-ro...slavery-remarks

 

Three Republican senators on Monday condemned Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-Nev.) comments that Republicans who oppose healthcare reform are akin to the opponents of abolition and women's suffrage.

 

"Folks tend to crack under pressure," said Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) at a press conference. "It is an indication of desperation."

 

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) said he was "personally offended" by the remarks that were "beneath the dignity of the Majority Leader...and the Senate."

 

Senate Republican Policy Committee chairman John Thune (S.D.) called the comments "inflammatory and irresponsible."

 

Speaking on the Senate floor this morning, Reid said "Instead of joining us on the right side of history, all the Republicans can come up with is, 'slow down, stop everything, let's start over.' If you think you've heard these same excuses before, you're right."

 

He continued "When this country belatedly recognized the wrongs of slavery, there were those who dug in their heels and said 'slow down, it's too early, things aren't bad enough' ... He continued: "When women spoke up for the right to speak up, they wanted to vote, some insisted they simply, slow down, there will be a better day to do that, today isn't quite right."

 

 

Oh and I might add, that it was the Southern Democrats that were pro-slavery, ya Jackass!!

[IDBillzFan]

As soon as I heard this, I thought to myself, "What a desperate comment"

 

I was wondering what message Obama gave to everyone while he was on the hill yesterday. Now we know. "You're never going to get this bill passed unless you spend more time demonizing the GOP. Bring up slavery. That'll distract everyone for a while."

[IDBillzFan]

Hey, you know that whole "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it?" line we keep hearing over and over?

 

Someone should have added "Unless your employer says you can't."

[Magox]

This thing is heating up. It looks as if there is a good possibility that Nelson won't support the final bill because of the ABORTION issue. Which in my view is a stupid amendment, but whatever.

 

If that is the case, then they would HAVE to woo either Collins or Snowe from the Republican aisle, and lets not forget Lieberman as well.

 

So, they are talking about stripping the "public option" and having insurance administered through the Office of Personnel Management, which oversees health benefits for federal employees.

 

This idea has been gaining some traction from moderates, although the liberals aren't too pleased with it. Knowing that the moderates have the power, they have no other choice but to compromise, so what the libs are trying to do is Expand Medicare and Medicaid. Which seems almost impossible to do in a fiscally responsible manner, specially considering that they want to CUT IT BY over $400 Billion.

 

Anyhoo, they want to expand Medicare and Medicaid, so that people over 55 can enter the program, which right now it is at 65 years of age, and they want to expand Medicaid coverage to individuals with incomes 150 percent above the poverty line, up from 130 percent.

 

Obviously this would put a tremendous financial burden, not just federally but on a state level as well.

 

It looks as if Olympia Snowe may not support this idea.

 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30350.html

 

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), who is still being wooed by Democrats on health care, was highly skeptical of a proposal to expand Medicare and Medicaid — signaling Tuesday that her support for an emerging public option compromise will be difficult to secure.

 

Democrats have been hopeful they could attract Snowe’s vote for a final health reform deal and gain a little breathing room in trying to reach 60 votes. But Snowe said the latest proposals on the table would take the legislation in the wrong direction, adding more government involvement at a time when voters want less.

 

“My deep concern is about the breadth and scale of this legislation, taking it in a more expansionistic approach for government’s role rather than reverse,” Snowe told reporters. “You can design incentives in this legislation to maximize the power of the marketplace in making sure the industry performs."

 

Already, one of the areas of Snowe’s concern — an expansion of Medicaid to cover more of the uninsured — is fading as a realistic option in the bill, senators said, amid concerns among moderates and many governors that it would put too much of a burden on state governments, which pick up a portion of the coverage costs.

 

It looks as if Ben Nelson, Olympia Snowe and Joe Lieberman are the one's who are wielding the most power.

[Adam]

This thing is heating up. It looks as if there is a good possibility that Nelson won't support the final bill because of the ABORTION issue. Which in my view is a stupid amendment, but whatever.

 

If that is the case, then they would HAVE to woo either Collins or Snowe from the Republican aisle, and lets not forget Lieberman as well.

 

So, they are talking about stripping the "public option" and having insurance administered through the Office of Personnel Management, which oversees health benefits for federal employees.

 

This idea has been gaining some traction from moderates, although the liberals aren't too pleased with it. Knowing that the moderates have the power, they have no other choice but to compromise, so what the libs are trying to do is Expand Medicare and Medicaid. Which seems almost impossible to do in a fiscally responsible manner, specially considering that they want to CUT IT BY over $400 Billion.

 

Anyhoo, they want to expand Medicare and Medicaid, so that people over 55 can enter the program, which right now it is at 65 years of age, and they want to expand Medicaid coverage to individuals with incomes 150 percent above the poverty line, up from 130 percent.

 

Obviously this would put a tremendous financial burden, not just federally but on a state level as well.

 

It looks as if Olympia Snowe may not support this idea.

 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30350.html

 

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), who is still being wooed by Democrats on health care, was highly skeptical of a proposal to expand Medicare and Medicaid — signaling Tuesday that her support for an emerging public option compromise will be difficult to secure.

 

Democrats have been hopeful they could attract Snowe’s vote for a final health reform deal and gain a little breathing room in trying to reach 60 votes. But Snowe said the latest proposals on the table would take the legislation in the wrong direction, adding more government involvement at a time when voters want less.

 

“My deep concern is about the breadth and scale of this legislation, taking it in a more expansionistic approach for government’s role rather than reverse,” Snowe told reporters. “You can design incentives in this legislation to maximize the power of the marketplace in making sure the industry performs."

 

Already, one of the areas of Snowe’s concern — an expansion of Medicaid to cover more of the uninsured — is fading as a realistic option in the bill, senators said, amid concerns among moderates and many governors that it would put too much of a burden on state governments, which pick up a portion of the coverage costs.

 

It looks as if Ben Nelson, Olympia Snowe and Joe Lieberman are the one's who are wielding the most power.

It can work with or without a public option- just make sure that the insurance companies aren't regionalized- maximize competition and the prices will drop. Also, I agree about coverage on pre-existing conditions.

[Magox]

I think it's safe to say that the Mayo Clinic is opposed to the new "deal". BO had praised the Mayo Clinic for effective cost control practices, I wonder if he still thinks the same thing today?

 

Also, the AMA who supported the house version doesn't seem to supportive of this new "deal" as well.

 

"The AMA is committed to legislation to expand affordable health insurance coverage to all Americans, but the AMA has longstanding policy opposing the expansion of Medicare given the fiscal projections for the future," said AMA President J. James Rohack, MD. "We believe a health insurance exchange without an expansion of Medicare will provide more affordable choices and better access to care for Americans ages 55 to 64."

 

CBO new scoring is coming out next week, it could be a game changer. Having said that, I can't possibly see how you can cut over $400 B from Medicare and then have the Baby Boomers start coming into full force soon and then expand Medicare to millions of more people without burdening the already "bankrupt" system.

 

That just doesn't make sense.

[erynthered]

I think it's safe to say that the Mayo Clinic is opposed to the new "deal". BO had praised the Mayo Clinic for effective cost control practices, I wonder if he still thinks the same thing today?

 

Also, the AMA who supported the house version doesn't seem to supportive of this new "deal" as well.

 

 

 

CBO new scoring is coming out next week, it could be a game changer. Having said that, I can't possibly see how you can cut over $400 B from Medicare and then have the Baby Boomers start coming into full force soon and then expand Medicare to millions of more people without burdening the already "bankrupt" system.

 

That just doesn't make sense.

 

 

Sure it does.

<Gene Frenkle>

[IDBillzFan]

That just doesn't make sense.

It's historic! It doesn't need to make sense.

[Magox]

I think it's safe to say that the Mayo Clinic is opposed to the new "deal". BO had praised the Mayo Clinic for effective cost control practices, I wonder if he still thinks the same thing today?

 

Also, the AMA who supported the house version doesn't seem to supportive of this new "deal" as well.

 

 

 

CBO new scoring is coming out next week, it could be a game changer. Having said that, I can't possibly see how you can cut over $400 B from Medicare and then have the Baby Boomers start coming into full force soon and then expand Medicare to millions of more people without burdening the already "bankrupt" system.

 

That just doesn't make sense.

Thats just pure speculative anecodotal crap

<Gene Frenkle>

[Magox]

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid actuary has released a report today that says the Senate health reform bill will increase total national health expenditures by $234 billion, or 0.7 percent, over the next decade.

 

The report says:

 

We estimate that total national health expenditures under this bill would increase by an estimated total of $234 billion (0.7 percent) during calendar year 2010-2019, principally reflecting the net impact of (i) greater utilization of health care service by individuals becoming newly covered (or having complete coverage.) (ii) lower prices paid to health providers for the subset of those individuals who become covered by Medicaid, and (iii) lower payments and payment updates for Medicare services, together with net Medicaid savings from provisions other than the coverage expansion.

 

So much for bending the cost curve

 

 

Full report.

[DC Tom]

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid actuary has released a report today that says the Senate health reform bill will increase total national health expenditures by $234 billion, or 0.7 percent, over the next decade.

 

The report says:

 

 

 

So much for bending the cost curve

 

 

Full report.

 

Of course it was going to increase expenditures. It increases the number of people with access to health care services, which means more people are going to spend money on health care, which means expenditures go up.

 

I don't recall anyone claiming otherwise. People have claimed costs would go down, but that's completely different.

[Magox]

Of course it was going to increase expenditures. It increases the number of people with access to health care services, which means more people are going to spend money on health care, which means expenditures go up.

 

I don't recall anyone claiming otherwise. People have claimed costs would go down, but that's completely different.

No ****! That's what I've been sayin.

 

However

 

The CEA claims--based on regional differences in Medicare spending[2] or the results of the RAND Health Insurance Experiment[3]--that "it should be possible to cut total health expenditures by about 30 percent without worsening outcomes."[4]

 

Take a looksy

[Magox]

If the Democrats were upset with Lieberman before, wait until now.

[IDBillzFan]

This has to be one of the oddest pushes I've ever seen. After going to the Capitol a couple of Sunday's ago to push lawmakers along, Reid comes out with the idea of just adding people to the Medicare program. This gets Lieberman off the boat, and now the Medicare push is essentially gone. So what does the president do? Bring them to the White House.

 

So you can't help but wonder...what the hell is he going to do that he hasn't done in countless press conferences, national addresses, and personal visits to the Capitol? Is he planning to hand out more cash to get some fence-sitters on board? Is there a reason he hasn't invited any Republicans (given that we're not supposed to be made up of red states or blue states, but rather United States)?

 

Part of me feels like this is about as desperate as a president can get, but it can't really be desperation, can it?

[Magox]

This has to be one of the oddest pushes I've ever seen. After going to the Capitol a couple of Sunday's ago to push lawmakers along, Reid comes out with the idea of just adding people to the Medicare program. This gets Lieberman off the boat, and now the Medicare push is essentially gone. So what does the president do? Bring them to the White House.

 

So you can't help but wonder...what the hell is he going to do that he hasn't done in countless press conferences, national addresses, and personal visits to the Capitol? Is he planning to hand out more cash to get some fence-sitters on board? Is there a reason he hasn't invited any Republicans (given that we're not supposed to be made up of red states or blue states, but rather United States)?

 

Part of me feels like this is about as desperate as a president can get, but it can't really be desperation, can it?

It's basically going to be a last hurrah speech to get them over the finish line. Something along the lines of "We may never get another chance like this, and this is a historic moment for all Americans" and bla bla bla.

 

Lieberman now will vote for the bill since they are stripping the public option and expansion of medicare, which of course has infuriarated the Libs. That still leaves Ben Nelson, who has said over and over that he won't support a bill unless it has similar language that of the House Bill's Stupak amendment.

 

I havn't hear of any progress on that front, and I wouldn't expect Nelson to change his position on that matter as he has remained steadfast on that contentious issue. In order to get his vote, they will either have to change the language to where he feels satisfied with the amendment or that they will give him assurances that when it goes to Conference that they will keep the Stupak Amendment in the final bill, which I would highly doubt that they would be able to do.

 

When you hear the Demotards speak they seem supremely confident that it will be done by next week sometime, so that tells me that they are either putting up a huge front or that they genuinely feel that they have allayed most of the concerns of all the senators to get the 60 votes through.

 

Unless they feel that they can get Olympia Snowe's vote which means that they wouldn't need Nelsons vote. Snowe is a 50/50 possibility, she was against the public option and medicare and now that they seem likely that they are out of the equation she is a definite possibility, although she has voiced on a few different occassions that she wanted to slow down this process and wanted a more bipartisan effort, but she is definitely in the cards. Collins is the other possibility but today she signaled that she still wouldn't vote for the final version of the bill because of the medicare cuts, but still would look to improve it.

 

Once this bill gets into conference I wouldn't be surprised that they added the public option or the expansion of medicare right back into it. If that happens, then the demotards can kiss the nov 2010 elections goodbye.

[IDBillzFan]

It's basically going to be a last hurrah speech to get them over the finish line.

Here's a little something I learned today: it's a bad idea to eat your lunch while listening to Obama discuss all the bad things that will happen to America if health care reform doesn't get passed. We better get something passed soon...I mean right now, we don't have a moment more to wait...or, according to Obama, Dwight Drane is going to look like a freaking prophet.

 

Actually, I'm not sure what scares me more; a world without health care reform right this very minute, or Al Gore telling me that the Arctic is going to be without ice in five years. Five years, dammit!!! If there's no ice in the Arctic, how the hell is Santa going to survive?? We're killing, Santa, man. We're killing freakin' Santa.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We're killing, Santa, man. We're killing freakin' Santa.

 

 

Mock strikes again!