Magox Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 What I don't see is a true fiscal small government conservative of any influence, period. Someone in that flavor might spark a movement. But if the Republicans just put up another McCain or worse, a Huckabee, or even worse, Palin...they will lose because people like me won't vote for them. Projecting a crystal ball, I suspect that some strongish third party fiscal conservative candidate will emerge (someone like a Forbes or Bloomberg--not them but someone in that vein) but that person will fracture the right and Obama won't garner a ton of votes but he'll get enough to beat the split right. And I don't think anyone underestimates Obama's ability to campaign well. But he'll never get the Independent vote that he got last time. To think: I sit here wishing Hillary had won. She would be a MUCH better president than Obama. I'm not going to lie to you, when I first heard of Huckabee, I thought to myself "what the !@#$ kind of hick name is that?", and the more I heard him speak, the more I began to like the guy. What is it about him that you don't like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Right now, I don't see enough unity in the Republican party to win 2012. The biggest factor they have on their side is Obama and his radical agenda of wealth distribution, anti business, big government and lack of overall leadership. If a strong contender can come out of the primaries and the Republicans can unify under that person that isn't too divisive to attract the Independents, I think there is a decent shot that they can take the presidency. However, I just don't see who fits the bill to be able to do that. Do you want unity? I'm hoping for a fractionalized party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 What I don't see is a true fiscal small government conservative of any influence, period. Someone in that flavor might spark a movement. But if the Republicans just put up another McCain or worse, a Huckabee, or even worse, Palin...they will lose because people like me won't vote for them. I think your dead-on here, and part of the problem is that any ""true fiscal small government conservative" is probably also socially conservative on issues like pro-life and/or anti-gay marriage, which doesn't help them for the broader appeal. That said, I think they can be pro-life and anti-gay marriage (like Obama on the latter) provided they don't make it a key component of their agenda. And if they're tougher on immigration, which most liberals are not, all the better. With that in mind, a guy I've been paying a little extra attention to lately has been Senator Jim DeMint of South Carolina. Now, I hesitate to write that because I'm sure the liberals here are probably googling him now hoping to find out that some distant relative was a slave owner or something, and I'm not sure he even has designs to run for President. In fact, you'll know if he does the moment the media starts pissing on him. But I like where he came from, I like what he has to say provided he lays off the heavy Christian stuff, and he's precisely the kind of small government, fiscal conservative that could make a difference. I'm not saying he's my guy. I'm just saying he's got my attention. What I do know is that, as you said, a McCain, Huckabee, Palin won't get it done unless Obama keeps taking us down this path of full-blown government control over everything important, in which case I wouldn't be surprised to see Hillary challenge him, and that changes everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Do you want unity? I'm hoping for a fractionalized party. without unification behind one person, it would be impossible to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 So wait a minute...last time it was "Lincoln would be a Democrat", now it's Reagan? Yeah...the guy who basically told all the intelligentsia who "knew better" to blow it out their asses, and proceeded to play hardball with the Soviet Union? He would be a Democrat today. Right. The guy didn't bow to anyone, especially not the US Congress, and went ahead and funded anti-communists in Central/South America in spite of them...but he would be a Democrat today. Right. Wait a minute, are we talking TODAY's Democrat, or 1960's, or 1980's Democrat? JFK would not be a Democrat by today's standards. Not even close. The bottom line: How many Americans want to us to leave Afghanistan, want the kind of health care "reform" currently being proposed, and want us to close Gitmo/want terrorists imprisoned here in this country? Answer: 22%. 22% of our people agree with these ideas and identify as Democrats. Last I checked only having 22% support gets your ass kicked in an election. But, we have somebody trying to tell us that the Republicans, not the Democrats, have serious party division problems? Example: Tell me that both of you(Steely, Hedd) support all 3 of the above measures....if you don't, then you can't call yourself a Democrat anymore...according to the people running your party. I think the point you are missing, is that however much the Republicans may be squeezing out their party...the Democrats are doing it twice as much, over the last few years, and especially in the last year. IF this wasn't the case, then health care, cap and tax and all the rest of of the douchebaggery would have sailed through Congress in a few months. But it didn't, it isn't, and it won't. Why? Because Republicans have party division problems? Next time you decide to post what you see on MSNBC...remember that while those people are lemmings, not all of them are dumb lemmings. No, the smart ones see the cliff coming. The only way to avoid dealing with the fact that the cliff is coming, is to try and invent/exaggerate problems for somebody else, and talk about them. So, yeah, now instead of acknowledging that there is a serious chance that their party is about go off the rails, the effects of which may last for 20 years, they are trying to talk about something, anything, else. Today, it happens to be "Reagan would be a Democrat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 without unification behind one person, it would be impossible to win. Right. I'll succumb to another loss if it means the Republican party breaks down and real conservative candidates can run. The political science model that shifting to the center is obviously not right. Obama won and he's leftist as possible. We don't need these Guiliani types getting any further. The party needs to split, the conservatives need to take it over, and then we can move on unified. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Right. I'll succumb to another loss if it means the Republican party breaks down and real conservative candidates can run. The political science model that shifting to the center is obviously not right. Obama won and he's leftist as possible. We don't need these Guiliani types getting any further. The party needs to split, the conservatives need to take it over, and then we can move on unified. Really. I say this with all sincerity, at the pace that this administration is moving towards "wealth distribution" policies and bigger government, doesn't that make you very nervous to see what this country is going to look like 7 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 So whats your question, point, etc? Republicans are not Republicans anymore. It's a new party full of crazy ideas and insane people who ignore logic, but it has the same name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 And the list didn't require much either. That litmus test is BS, though. Maybe 15% of the country supports eight out of ten of those points? We'll find out when the Charlie Crist primaries are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Republicans are not Republicans anymore. It's a new party full of crazy ideas and insane people who ignore logic, but it has the same name. Huh? So, basically you're saying they're now Connericans? (Or maybe Connericrats?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 We'll find out when the Charlie Crist primaries are over. Your point being...a party full of crazy people who ignore logic are going to collectively and monolithically apply a party-defined litmus test? You're a complete moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 James Dobson and Rush Limbaugh and their ilk apply the litmus test. The voting lemmings just do as they are told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 James Dobson and Rush Limbaugh and their ilk apply the litmus test. The voting lemmings just do as they are told. And the entire Republican Party electorate then does what they're told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Republicans are not Republicans anymore. It's a new party full of crazy ideas and insane people who ignore logic, but it has the same name. Give us some examples of the crazy ideas and lack of logic that you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Give us some examples of the crazy ideas and lack of logic that you see? For Connor, the crazy idea that Republicans have is that WTC7 was not taken down by explosives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 For Connor, the crazy idea that Republicans have is that WTC7 was not taken down by explosives. Of course not. It was taken down by a bunch of ex-CIA psychics in the employment of the Yakuza... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Give us some examples of the crazy ideas and lack of logic that you see? uh....? oh goodness, there is no way I could ever do this justice. start reading dailykos or something, i'm sure in a few years you'll be caught up to all of the major items. this is 4 minutes of research... -Obama is an elitist muslim born in Kenya who goes to a Christian church run by an extremist. -Death Panels -Thinking Sarah Palin is qualified to be President -The oxymoron of standing by the Patriot Act yet making the message of the party be "we don't want government in our lives" -52% of Republicans think ACORN stole the 2008 Presidential Election for President Barack Obama. -Supporting abstinence education in the face of overwhelming evidence that it leads to increased teen pregnancy -12% of NC GOP think Hawaii is not a state -"Global warming is a hoax" -We are the "party of family values" while Ensign and Sanford cheat on their wives (with the knowledge of other GOPers) -Having 12 years of congress majority to reform health care your way, and complaining when Dems finally decide to do something -Michelle Bachman: "As you know, Russia, China, Brazil, India, South Africa, many nations have lined up now and have called for an international global currency, a One World currency" -Thinking that FNC is anything except a profit machine ("this station stands for what I believe in" lol, I bet). -Virginia Foxx: "We know that young man was killed in the commitment of a robbery. It wasn’t because he was gay" -Michael Steele: "I am pro-life, always have been, always will be. I tried to present why I am pro-life while recognizing that my mother had a 'choice' before deciding to put me up for adoption." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 uh....? oh goodness, there is no way I could ever do this justice. start reading dailykos or something, i'm sure in a few years you'll be caught up to all of the major items. this is 4 minutes of research... -Obama is an elitist muslim born in Kenya who goes to a Christian church run by an extremist. -Death Panels -Thinking Sarah Palin is qualified to be President -The oxymoron of standing by the Patriot Act yet making the message of the party be "we don't want government in our lives" -52% of Republicans think ACORN stole the 2008 Presidential Election for President Barack Obama. -Supporting abstinence education in the face of overwhelming evidence that it leads to increased teen pregnancy -12% of NC GOP think Hawaii is not a state -"Global warming is a hoax" -We are the "party of family values" while Ensign and Sanford cheat on their wives (with the knowledge of other GOPers) -Having 12 years of congress majority to reform health care your way, and complaining when Dems finally decide to do something -Michelle Bachman: "As you know, Russia, China, Brazil, India, South Africa, many nations have lined up now and have called for an international global currency, a One World currency" -Thinking that FNC is anything except a profit machine ("this station stands for what I believe in" lol, I bet). -Virginia Foxx: "We know that young man was killed in the commitment of a robbery. It wasn’t because he was gay" -Michael Steele: "I am pro-life, always have been, always will be. I tried to present why I am pro-life while recognizing that my mother had a 'choice' before deciding to put me up for adoption." Read dailykos to get a list of crazy Republican ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 -Obama is an elitist muslim born in Kenya who goes to a Christian church run by an extremist. He is elitist. He is muslim. His pastor was an extremist. -Death Panels You guys got caught up on the name, while the concept seemed very plausible, and was more of a legitimate concern, then your assumption that the capitalism inherint in health insurance is evil. -Thinking Sarah Palin is qualified to be President She was a governor. Obama was a freshman senator. -The oxymoron of standing by the Patriot Act yet making the message of the party be "we don't want government in our lives" Wow. A Patriot act comment. Surprise, surprise. Essentially, you failing to disassociate terrorism with your freedom makes me defending the Patriot act seem a bit futile. -52% of Republicans think ACORN stole the 2008 Presidential Election for President Barack Obama. You made that **** up. -Supporting abstinence education in the face of overwhelming evidence that it leads to increased teen pregnancy Abstinence leads to pregnancy? What? -12% of NC GOP think Hawaii is not a state You made that **** up. -"Global warming is a hoax" Not getting into that. You're too predictable in the global warming debates because you believe absolutely every thing that you are told. -We are the "party of family values" while Ensign and Sanford cheat on their wives (with the knowledge of other GOPers) ...corrupt politicians somehow means Republican ideas are crazy? Spitzer says what? -Having 12 years of congress majority to reform health care your way, and complaining when Dems finally decide to do something "decide to do something"... Nice little spin there. Come up with that one on your own, did you? -Michelle Bachman: "As you know, Russia, China, Brazil, India, South Africa, many nations have lined up now and have called for an international global currency, a One World currency" Okay... -Thinking that FNC is anything except a profit machine ("this station stands for what I believe in" lol, I bet). Towards the end of your list here I can see you were starting to stretch a little bit...that's okay. Lists are hard. -Virginia Foxx: "We know that young man was killed in the commitment of a robbery. It wasn’t because he was gay" -Michael Steele: "I am pro-life, always have been, always will be. I tried to present why I am pro-life while recognizing that my mother had a 'choice' before deciding to put me up for adoption." Okay, You just gave up and went to your go-to quotes and the end, nice job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 And the list didn't require much either. That litmus test is BS, though. Maybe 15% of the country supports eight out of ten of those points? Mike Huckabee supports at least eight out of those ten points... BS? You right wing nuts make me laugh. Mike Huckabee on the issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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