For all you Peters haters

[Peter]

You go bandit!!!! Don't let these losers try to make up stats and attribute sacks to Peters. It's a total joke. People so blinded by hate that they have to make things up and claim that probowls are popularity contests where the public's vote is all that matters. Let's just ignore the fact that the Bills get the least publicity in the league so how could overwhelming fan support and voting get Peters into the probowl?!?!?!?! The pro bowl means nothing camp is a joke.

 

Really just sad. It is funny to bring it up now and then to see what kind of idiotic claims the haters make up for why it was a good idea to get rid of him. None of which can be proved by the way. They even go so far as to label Wood a future stud. A guy that was guaranteed to play more games than Peters who was soft. I have asked the haters what they see in Wood ON THE FIELD that shows them that this kid should be knighted into studhood and we should feel lucky we got him with Peters' draft pick. Then all I hear is crickets. Again....blind hatred of one guy warping your vision to think a rookie on a horrible offensive line is a stud and we made out in the trade losing a pro bowler.

 

Seriously YOU HAVE TO LAUGH at that. It's just so crazy.

 

Well said by both of you.

[Peter]

So the best that can be said for Peters is he'd be better than what the Bills have? Thanks but no thanks.

 

Unfortunately, with our line, it is a very, very low bar.

[Leonidas]

Apparently, PTR and a few others need to inform the NFL, Elias Sports Bureau, and ESPN's camera crews of these 2 sacks that Peters supposedly gave up, because all 3 of them (along with myself and the room full of people watching the game at my house last night) missed them.

 

Tell me, which sacks did Peters "give up"? Tommie Harris' sack where he charged between LG Todd Herrimens and C Jamaal Jackson? Was it the play where Lance Briggs came on a delayed blitz up the middle and nobody picked him up? I remember the play where Hunter Hilllenmeyer beat RG Nick Cole and pushed Donovan McNabb backwards into Peters, and Mark Anderson (whom Peters was blocking on the play) finished McNabb off...so let's give you all the benefit of the doubt there and attribute Anderson's half-sack to Peters.

 

So, again, tell me which 2 sacks Peters "gave up"...since NFL.com has those 3 listed as the only sacks that occurred.

 

This is getting kind of pathetic, guys. I've seen multiple people completely making up sack numbers throughout the season to try to justify their opinions regarding Peters' play. I understand that it's convenient, because there's no real statistics to refute the numbers you people toss around, but please don't treat the rest of us as that actually watch the games objectively as though we're idiots. If you don't like the guy, fine, go ahead and provide your opinion. Say he's overrated. Say he's a bad teammate. Say anything you want, but keep it reasonable. When you make things up about what happens on the field, it makes you appear petty. You guys are better than that.

 

Peters looked outstanding in run blocking last night, and did perfectly fine in pass protection. There were a few plays where guys got the better of him; it's the NFL, that happens. If any of you are interested in getting an objective POV, check out last week's MMQB article (Peter King - SI.com) where he discusses analyzing sacks for O-Linemen, how Joe Thomas is having one of the best seasons ever for a left tackle, and how Peters (through last week) leads the NFL in fewest pressures allowed per snap played (here's a link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...15/mmqb/5.html).

 

Objectivity left this board a long time ago when it comes to this topic, so it's time to move on guys. That's what I'm going to do.

 

Bandit, give me some credit. I wouldn't have started the first Peters thread without a reason. I was just sitting on my couch, not even thinking about it, when they announced the starting lineup and realized he was playing. Then I noticed he was playing poorly. Just because Cris Collinsworth sings his praises doesn't make him good; it just means he knows who he is. It's kind of like making the pro bowl as an offensive lineman. If people know who you are, you'll get the meager amount of votes needed to make it.

 

Even in the highlights (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112213/2009/REG11/eagles@bears#tab:watch), at 24 seconds a defender goes right around him and McNabb narrowly avoids him to make a great pass. I can absolutely promise you Peters got beaten for at least one sack (sorry if it wasn't two - I took PTR at his word that it was, but I only saw one), probably the sack by Mark Anderson (I didn't DVR the game and I don't think you can watch it all the way through online after the fact). Tommie Harris is a DT so that wouldn't make any sense, and I remember the Lance Briggs sack: Peters got beat, the guy who beat him (I can't remember who it was - they kept changing between Anderson, Adams, and Brown) got to McNabb but Briggs already had him down. Then tack on two penalties for 15 yards. You might not think that's a lot since the Bills are just about the most penalized team on the planet, especially the offensive line, but for one player it certainly is. I don't think in their primes there was ever a game where Jonathan Odgen, Orlando Pace, etc. ever gave up a sack and took two penalties. If they did, it was certainly rare.

 

And pdaddy (no, I'm not doing the rotating caps), if you "could care less" about my opinion (and others), why respond seven different times in a row to this thread? Besides, your opinion is worthless. "Take off the hate colored glasses." What does that even mean? At least the Bandit backs up his argument with stats. Sorry you're frustrated for being 'unable to educate the unwilling.' Give me a break, dude.

[thebandit27]

Bandit, give me some credit. I wouldn't have started the first Peters thread without a reason. I was just sitting on my couch, not even thinking about it, when they announced the starting lineup and realized he was playing. Then I noticed he was playing poorly. Just because Cris Collinsworth sings his praises doesn't make him good; it just means he knows who he is. It's kind of like making the pro bowl as an offensive lineman. If people know who you are, you'll get the meager amount of votes needed to make it.

 

Even in the highlights (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112213/2009/REG11/eagles@bears#tab:watch), at 24 seconds a defender goes right around him and McNabb narrowly avoids him to make a great pass. I can absolutely promise you Peters got beaten for at least one sack (sorry if it wasn't two - I took PTR at his word that it was, but I only saw one), probably the sack by Mark Anderson (I didn't DVR the game and I don't think you can watch it all the way through online after the fact). Tommie Harris is a DT so that wouldn't make any sense, and I remember the Lance Briggs sack: Peters got beat, the guy who beat him (I can't remember who it was - they kept changing between Anderson, Adams, and Brown) got to McNabb but Briggs already had him down. Then tack on two penalties for 15 yards. You might not think that's a lot since the Bills are just about the most penalized team on the planet, especially the offensive line, but for one player it certainly is. I don't think in their primes there was ever a game where Jonathan Odgen, Orlando Pace, etc. ever gave up a sack and took two penalties. If they did, it was certainly rare.

 

And pdaddy (no, I'm not doing the rotating caps), if you "could care less" about my opinion (and others), why respond seven different times in a row to this thread? Besides, your opinion is worthless. "Take off the hate colored glasses." What does that even mean? At least the Bandit backs up his argument with stats. Sorry you're frustrated for being 'unable to educate the unwilling.' Give me a break, dude.

 

I actually didn't see your thread, Leo. And I certainly wasn't intending to single out you of all people for PTR's statement. (And yes, the Anderson sack is the one to which you refer)

 

Like I said, he didn't play a perfect game in regard to pass protection (his run blocking, however, was superb IMO). He got beat a few times; my only point is that it happens to everyone. I found some of the responses in this thread particularly odd, because the vast majority of friends that I watched last night's game with reside in the "anti-Peters" camp, and many of them found themselves complementing his play throughout the game.

 

I'm well documented that I think Buffalo screwed things up with Peters, but now that he's gone I simply don't care how he plays. I'd be lying, however, if I said I didn't notice him when Philly plays on TV--and I'd be further lying if I didn't think to myself, at least some of the time, that I'd rather have him playing LT than Eric Wood at RG and Shawn Nelson at TE. That may change as the years go by and Wood/Nelson/Bell improve, but for now it's just how I feel.

[Mr. WEO]

You go bandit!!!! Don't let these losers try to make up stats and attribute sacks to Peters. It's a total joke. People so blinded by hate that they have to make things up and claim that probowls are popularity contests where the public's vote is all that matters. Let's just ignore the fact that the Bills get the least publicity in the league so how could overwhelming fan support and voting get Peters into the probowl?!?!?!?! The pro bowl means nothing camp is a joke.

 

Really just sad. It is funny to bring it up now and then to see what kind of idiotic claims the haters make up for why it was a good idea to get rid of him. None of which can be proved by the way. They even go so far as to label Wood a future stud. A guy that was guaranteed to play more games than Peters who was soft. I have asked the haters what they see in Wood ON THE FIELD that shows them that this kid should be knighted into studhood and we should feel lucky we got him with Peters' draft pick. Then all I hear is crickets. Again....blind hatred of one guy warping your vision to think a rookie on a horrible offensive line is a stud and we made out in the trade losing a pro bowler.

 

Seriously YOU HAVE TO LAUGH at that. It's just so crazy.

Really?

 

How did Peters get into the Pro Bowl last year? How bout Favre? Only the "best", right?

[PDaDdy]

And pdaddy (no, I'm not doing the rotating caps), if you "could care less" about my opinion (and others), why respond seven different times in a row to this thread? Besides, your opinion is worthless. "Take off the hate colored glasses." What does that even mean? At least the Bandit backs up his argument with stats. Sorry you're frustrated for being 'unable to educate the unwilling.' Give me a break, dude.

 

It was in response to your statement about taking off the rose colored glasses. It just means that your opinion of his performance and what you see is colored by the hatred you have for the man.

 

Sorry to lump you all together but the group of people out there that disagree with ALL of the experts that matter on the Peters situation and find some columnist in some podunk town or internet blog or forum that agrees with them as validation of their point is laughable.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but when they disagree with the experts so completely and make inaccurate statements they set themselves up for ridicule of their arrogance and insults to their intelligence. When they say things like:

 

1) He gave up 2 sacks when at best he can be attributed with a 1/2 sack. Let's ignore he was GREAT in the run game.

2) Peters wouldn't play for anything less than $12 million a year. He is making 10.5 if I am not mistaken and players RARELY RARELY ever actually get the full value or term of their contract.

3) Probowls mean nothing it's a popularity contest. Buffalo is unpopular so how again does this explain his nomination?

4) Peters just got a new contract then he wanted another. He got a nice RT contract then they promoted him to LT and we didn't want to pay him for his promotion.

5) Wood is a STUD and will be a rock on our line for years to come...I hope so but we have ABSOLUTELY ZERO proof of or expectation of this as I constantly challenge people to backup with examples of his on field performance. Don't think he will be playing more games than Peters this year as many claimed either. Feel really bad for the kid but compound leg fracture for a guard? Sounds injury prone to me.

 

etc, etc, etc....all incorrect statements made by the haters

 

Why I respond is because it makes me laugh and brightens my day to see those SORRY SORRY ass sour grape excuses for why somebody is glad we don't have our probowl LT. It is even more funny when they try to claim that they are making these statements out of fact when it is so painfully obvious they are speaking from 95% emotion on the subject.

 

"Hate colored glasses" if you will.

[PDaDdy]

Really?

 

How did Peters get into the Pro Bowl last year? How bout Favre? Only the "best", right?

 

 

ROFLOL!! This is exactly what I am talking about. Buffalo is SO popular that an incredible ground swell support of fan voting trumps all of the expert player and coach opinions to make Peters a pro bowler!!! DUDE...STOP....I'm trying to eat lunch. You are going to make coffee come out of my nose!!!!!!

 

That Farve guy sucks by the way. I guess since he was injured last year with a torn tendon and who knows what else he wasn't and isn't still one of, if not the, best QBs to have ever played the game. Typical extreme Peters haterism.

 

Step 1: Attempt to find a flaw in the system by finding one player they don't think deserves a pro bowl

Step 2: Extrapolate to invalidate Peters nomination

Step 3: Throw out the baby with the bath water

 

Phew....OK...think I calmed down. Let me hear another one of the Peters haters zingers. Make up something really good though. Like he swore he would never play in Buffalo again and no matter how much Brandon offered him he wouldn't have stayed.

[Leonidas]

I actually didn't see your thread, Leo. And I certainly wasn't intending to single out you of all people for PTR's statement. (And yes, the Anderson sack is the one to which you refer)

 

Like I said, he didn't play a perfect game in regard to pass protection (his run blocking, however, was superb IMO). He got beat a few times; my only point is that it happens to everyone. I found some of the responses in this thread particularly odd, because the vast majority of friends that I watched last night's game with reside in the "anti-Peters" camp, and many of them found themselves complementing his play throughout the game.

 

I'm well documented that I think Buffalo screwed things up with Peters, but now that he's gone I simply don't care how he plays. I'd be lying, however, if I said I didn't notice him when Philly plays on TV--and I'd be further lying if I didn't think to myself, at least some of the time, that I'd rather have him playing LT than Eric Wood at RG and Shawn Nelson at TE. That may change as the years go by and Wood/Nelson/Bell improve, but for now it's just how I feel.

 

I understand that people want to let it go. Usually I'm in that camp, I just happened to notice he was playing and got into it a bit. I certainly don't seek out Eagles games on Sunday (I'm not that crazy/bitter). I did see some good plays from him, can't deny that. On the Jackson TD he handled his man perfectly. But it's not enough to do that if you're an 'elite' tackle; you have to do that consistently. Let's say for argument's sake he gave up one sack and two penalties. That kind of performance, while certainly not horrible (not like D. Bell's four penalties and two sacks, or Winston Justice giving up six sacks a few years back) is not worthy of top dollar. I agree that the Bills !@#$ed up the LT situation - how can you argue otherwise? I also agree that bumping up his salary before this became an issue, in hindsight, was probably the way to go. But I will not waiver from these two points, that a) Peters is not worth what he is making (he might have elite skills but he is not nearly consistent enough to earn top dollar) and b) you cannot let one player hold your team hostage. In hindsight we probably should have drafted Oher at #11 (although I still maintain we should have drafted Jamon Meredith over Nic Harris, but that's moot at this point), and traded up from the fifth round to grab Lawrence Sidbury when he was still available (trading up because I loved the Shawn Nelson pick at the time and didn't want to not draft him when we did).

[Leonidas]

It was in response to your statement about taking off the rose colored glasses. It just means that your opinion of his performance and what you see is colored by the hatred you have for the man.

 

Sorry to lump you all together but the group of people out there that disagree with ALL of the experts that matter on the Peters situation and find some columnist in some podunk town or internet blog or forum that agrees with them as validation of their point is laughable.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but when they disagree with the experts so completely and make inaccurate statements they set themselves up for ridicule of their arrogance and insults to their intelligence. When they say things like:

 

1) He gave up 2 sacks when at best he can be attributed with a 1/2 sack. Let's ignore he was GREAT in the run game.

2) Peters wouldn't play for anything less than $12 million a year. He is making 10.5 if I am not mistaken and players RARELY RARELY ever actually get the full value or term of their contract.

3) Probowls mean nothing it's a popularity contest. Buffalo is unpopular so how again does this explain his nomination?

4) Peters just got a new contract then he wanted another. He got a nice RT contract then they promoted him to LT and we didn't want to pay him for his promotion.

5) Wood is a STUD and will be a rock on our line for years to come...I hope so but we have ABSOLUTELY ZERO proof of or expectation of this as I constantly challenge people to backup with examples of his on field performance. Don't think he will be playing more games than Peters this year as many claimed either. Feel really bad for the kid but compound leg fracture for a guard? Sounds injury prone to me.

 

etc, etc, etc....all incorrect statements made by the haters

 

Why I respond is because it makes me laugh and brightens my day to see those SORRY SORRY ass sour grape excuses for why somebody is glad we don't have our probowl LT. It is even more funny when they try to claim that they are making these statements out of fact when it is so painfully obvious they are speaking from 95% emotion on the subject.

 

"Hate colored glasses" if you will.

 

ROFLOL!! This is exactly what I am talking about. Buffalo is SO popular that an incredible ground swell support of fan voting trumps all of the expert player and coach opinions to make Peters a pro bowler!!! DUDE...STOP....I'm trying to eat lunch. You are going to make coffee come out of my nose!!!!!!

 

That Farve guy sucks by the way. I guess since he was injured last year with a torn tendon and who knows what else he wasn't and isn't still one of, if not the, best QBs to have ever played the game. Typical extreme Peters haterism.

 

Step 1: Attempt to find a flaw in the system by finding one player they don't think deserves a pro bowl

Step 2: Extrapolate to invalidate Peters nomination

Step 3: Throw out the baby with the bath water

 

Phew....OK...think I calmed down. Let me hear another one of the Peters haters zingers. Make up something really good though. Like he swore he would never play in Buffalo again and no matter how much Brandon offered him he wouldn't have stayed.

 

You're an idiot. No response needed. Go back to your lunch break.

[thebandit27]

I understand that people want to let it go. Usually I'm in that camp, I just happened to notice he was playing and got into it a bit. I certainly don't seek out Eagles games on Sunday (I'm not that crazy/bitter). I did see some good plays from him, can't deny that. On the Jackson TD he handled his man perfectly. But it's not enough to do that if you're an 'elite' tackle; you have to do that consistently. Let's say for argument's sake he gave up one sack and two penalties. That kind of performance, while certainly not horrible (not like D. Bell's four penalties and two sacks, or Winston Justice giving up six sacks a few years back) is not worthy of top dollar. I agree that the Bills !@#$ed up the LT situation - how can you argue otherwise? I also agree that bumping up his salary before this became an issue, in hindsight, was probably the way to go. But I will not waiver from these two points, that a) Peters is not worth what he is making (he might have elite skills but he is not nearly consistent enough to earn top dollar) and b) you cannot let one player hold your team hostage. In hindsight we probably should have drafted Oher at #11 (although I still maintain we should have drafted Jamon Meredith over Nic Harris, but that's moot at this point), and traded up from the fifth round to grab Lawrence Sidbury when he was still available (trading up because I loved the Shawn Nelson pick at the time and didn't want to not draft him when we did).

 

I'm not sure that there is a counter-point for either of those statements Leo.

 

I pretty much agree with all of that.

[Mickey]

An additional take:

 

It should be noted that losing Peters was certainly one of the most significant personnel moves of the Dick Jauron/Russ Brandon era. Jauron has been fired, a result pretty much universally applauded even among the widely divergent posters on this board. Firing Brandon from his role as a GM and pushing him back in to marketing also seems to be a development we all agree should happen, and soon.

 

So I have to ask those who were so ecstatic that we lost Peters, did these two bumbling idiots just accidentally stumble into a good decision on Peters or, perhaps, is it more likely that these losers made a loser move in losing Peters?

 

A second question for the same crew. Every time Peters was injured and missed either practice or game time, you guys were quick to use it as "proof" that he was lazy, a big baby and not a team player. Bell has missed plenty of time as well, why is that not "proof" that he is injury prone, not willing to play hurt, lazy, etc. etc.? Have you guys been privy to the private and personal medical records of the two and, with your advanced medical knowledge, been able to compare all the diagnostics enough to know that one's injuries are legit and the other's an exaggeration?

[papazoid]

quality Left Tackles are so rare and so important. Peters has proven, when motivated, he is one of the best. problem is, he is not a self motivator. Short term the peters trade is a DISASTER !!......long term is yet to be played out, but i lean towards the bills did the right thing. i say this coming from a guy who would give up two #1 draft choices for an All Pro in his prime 9 out of 10 times. Peters is that rare exception.

[BADOLBILZ]

So the best that can be said for Peters is he'd be better than what the Bills have? Thanks but no thanks.

 

No, the best that can be said is that he has been a Pro Bowl LT twice and probably will be again 5-7 more times in his career. He's a damn bulldozer in the run game and statistically he is pass blocking well. Don't be a fool listening to the guys on this board with their inflated claims of Peters struggles. Instead, look at the body of work of the Bills front office and then ask yourself if they deserve the benefit of the doubt. After all, we weren't there. All we know is that their track record regarding their own personnel is horrendous.

[PromoTheRobot]

No, the best that can be said is that he has been a Pro Bowl LT twice and probably will be again 5-7 more times in his career. He's a damn bulldozer in the run game and statistically he is pass blocking well. Don't be a fool listening to the guys on this board with their inflated claims of Peters struggles. Instead, look at the body of work of the Bills front office and then ask yourself if they deserve the benefit of the doubt. After all, we weren't there. All we know is that their track record regarding their own personnel is horrendous.

Everything you said is true...if you ad the phrase "when he feels like it" at the end.

 

PTR

[pBills]

How about who gives a crap about Peters. He is gone. Get over it people.

[Gugny]

He's a top #2 WR and an average #1 Wr

Seriously ... the 2nd coming of Peerless Price.

[Meark]

Just what we need.. another thread about the guy that quit on our team.. I guess none of you Peter's lovers actually watched the games last year. News flash.. he isn't our problem anymore.

[PDaDdy]

You're an idiot. No response needed. Go back to your lunch break.

 

 

Well thought out factual intelligence post....LOL....why waste forum space with that kind of retort. At least respond with something of value. A plausible retort. I know I'm a jerk on these posts sometime but people never respond with intelligent arguments when you completely shred their BS reasons for hating Peters. I'm looking for a worthy opponent that has something to actually show factually when they state things as fact not just that they don't like the guy.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Peters play is very inconsistent at best. He blocks great for a few plays then it looks like he is on roller skates. Sorry not what you want for what you are paying him.

[Leonidas]

An additional take:

 

It should be noted that losing Peters was certainly one of the most significant personnel moves of the Dick Jauron/Russ Brandon era. Jauron has been fired, a result pretty much universally applauded even among the widely divergent posters on this board. Firing Brandon from his role as a GM and pushing him back in to marketing also seems to be a development we all agree should happen, and soon.

 

So I have to ask those who were so ecstatic that we lost Peters, did these two bumbling idiots just accidentally stumble into a good decision on Peters or, perhaps, is it more likely that these losers made a loser move in losing Peters?

 

A second question for the same crew. Every time Peters was injured and missed either practice or game time, you guys were quick to use it as "proof" that he was lazy, a big baby and not a team player. Bell has missed plenty of time as well, why is that not "proof" that he is injury prone, not willing to play hurt, lazy, etc. etc.? Have you guys been privy to the private and personal medical records of the two and, with your advanced medical knowledge, been able to compare all the diagnostics enough to know that one's injuries are legit and the other's an exaggeration?

 

A very well thoughtout response. You might be right about Bell. Injured twice this year, the second time a season-ender.

 

quality Left Tackles are so rare and so important. Peters has proven, when motivated, he is one of the best. problem is, he is not a self motivator. Short term the peters trade is a DISASTER !!......long term is yet to be played out, but i lean towards the bills did the right thing. i say this coming from a guy who would give up two #1 draft choices for an All Pro in his prime 9 out of 10 times. Peters is that rare exception.

 

A disaster for...Philly, then?

 

How about who gives a crap about Peters. He is gone. Get over it people.

 

Then why read and respond? Furthermore, there's TONS of pointless **** on this board, much worse than the current status of Jason Peters.

 

Seriously ... the 2nd coming of Peerless Price.

 

I disagree with that completely. Peerless would rip it up when he was single-covered by a team's #2 corner. Evans gets open against double coverage and team's top DB's - we just can't get him the ball. Is he Larry Fitzgerald? No. But he's not Peerless Price.

 

Well thought out factual intelligence post....LOL....why waste forum space with that kind of retort. At least respond with something of value. A plausible retort. I know I'm a jerk on these posts sometime but people never respond with intelligent arguments when you completely shred their BS reasons for hating Peters. I'm looking for a worthy opponent that has something to actually show factually when they state things as fact not just that they don't like the guy.

 

You're right. I should have simply ignored you instead of responding. And you've done nothing to shred what I said about last night's game and the Peters situation in general. TheBandit comes out and makes a statement, and backs it up with statistics. I countered it with my own view and my statistics. What do you do? You laugh (a lot...I'm not sure really what's all that funny) and call us "haters" and "Stevie Wonder" and make absurd arguments about the Pro Bowl (apparently you weren't around when Ruben Brown continued to make the Pro Bowl years after he was relevant). Then the guy with rotating caps has the audacity to talk down to us by saying "you can't educate the unwilling" yet you've produced not one shred of evidence that even suggests Peters is playing well or that we should have kept him. So yeah, I'm going to try to ignore your worthless arguments from now on. Hopefully it'll work. I recommend others try to as well.

 

Peters play is very inconsistent at best. He blocks great for a few plays then it looks like he is on roller skates. Sorry not what you want for what you are paying him.

 

That's my point. Of course he has the physical skills. But this isn't baseball. If, as an LT, you are successful in stopping your guy 90% of the time from getting to the quarterback you're still a failure! It sucks, but that's why you get paid the big bucks: consistency.