For all you Peters haters

[BADOLBILZ]

How about who gives a crap about Peters. He is gone. Get over it people.

 

And yet you felt the need to respond. 3200 other topics on TSW, but this one you needed to respond to.

 

The point of discussing this controversial trade is to learn from the mistakes of the past. It's a big problem with the Bills fanbase. You can be supportive without being ignorant. The objective of the management of this team is to make money and win if possible. Our objective is to win. Not congruent. So stop jumping all over the good players when they want to get paid. If management is good, support them. If a player is good, support him. Like it or not, Peters was All Pro. Wilson, Brandon and Jauron are among the worst in the league. Opposite ends of the spectrum. Why were fans all over Peters and not management? Bad habit. Support success, shun failure.

[PDaDdy]

You're right. I should have simply ignored you instead of responding. And you've done nothing to shred what I said about last night's game and the Peters situation in general. TheBandit comes out and makes a statement, and backs it up with statistics. I countered it with my own view and my statistics. What do you do? You laugh (a lot...I'm not sure really what's all that funny) and call us "haters" and "Stevie Wonder" and make absurd arguments about the Pro Bowl (apparently you weren't around when Ruben Brown continued to make the Pro Bowl years after he was relevant). Then the guy with rotating caps has the audacity to talk down to us by saying "you can't educate the unwilling" yet you've produced not one shred of evidence that even suggests Peters is playing well or that we should have kept him. So yeah, I'm going to try to ignore your worthless arguments from now on. Hopefully it'll work. I recommend others try to as well.

 

Is it me or did you just use the textbook version of the probowl means nothing defense?

 

Step 1: Attempt to find a flaw in the system by finding one player they don't think deserves a pro bowl

Step 2: Extrapolate to invalidate Peters nomination

Step 3: Throw out the baby with the bath water

 

Really?

 

This is what I am talking about. Silly argument. Hey I can see somebody arguing the subtleties of player X vs player Y. That happens all of the time. What many don't realize is that Player X and Y are BOTH good which is the reason why they are both in the discussion. For the "pro bowl means nothing or is a popularity contest crowd" you actually have to say they are nominating BAD or MEDIOCRE players. Really? Come on! Let the hate go!

 

I guess since you know so much you should get a GM or director of pro scouting job. All of those experts that think Peters is what I think he is....screw them!!!! You know better than any of us do buddy. We bow to your inflated football head of knowledge and irreproachable wisdom. How could I doubt a faceless voice on an internet forum and trust those clowns with actual NFL experience? Those blow hard coaches, scouts and commentators don't have 1/100th the NFL experience and knowledge you have!!!!

 

By the way I never had a problem with Ruben Brown. He did get old, something Peters is not, but he was still a solid lineman when healthy.

[PDaDdy]

And yet you felt the need to respond. 3200 other topics on TSW, but this one you needed to respond to.

 

The point of discussing this controversial trade is to learn from the mistakes of the past. It's a big problem with the Bills fanbase. You can be supportive without being ignorant. The objective of the management of this team is to make money and win if possible. Our objective is to win. Not congruent. So stop jumping all over the good players when they want to get paid. If management is good, support them. If a player is good, support him. Like it or not, Peters was All Pro. Wilson, Brandon and Jauron are among the worst in the league. Opposite ends of the spectrum. Why were fans all over Peters and not management? Bad habit. Support success, shun failure.

 

 

A breath of objective fresh air.

[uforesircher]

I have been sick of the posts on Peters for a while, but I need to make this known. A lot of you have tried to defend his trade by saying he was fat, overrated, and lazy. I have seen more than a number of Eagles games and he has been a beast. Just like he was with the Bills. Our team has a lot of holes, A LOT, and we would have one less if we didn;t trade him away, or...better yet...giving him a decent contract 2 years ago at a much more manageable rate.

 

He stated that he was going to leave here anyways - no matter the offer. He was done when his current contract was over. He did not want to be here. The offer we made him, I think, was more than what he accepted from Philthy. SO you keep a mal-content on the roster and get nothing for him when he does leave? I think not.

[PDaDdy]

He stated that he was going to leave here anyways - no matter the offer. He was done when his current contract was over. He did not want to be here. The offer we made him, I think, was more than what he accepted from Philthy. SO you keep a mal-content on the roster and get nothing for him when he does leave? I think not.

 

Could you please provide a link substantiating your claim?

[zazie]

He stated that he was going to leave here anyways - no matter the offer. He was done when his current contract was over. He did not want to be here. The offer we made him, I think, was more than what he accepted from Philthy. SO you keep a mal-content on the roster and get nothing for him when he does leave? I think not.

This is absolutely incorrect and the guy wanted the most money he could get like most every other human being on the planet

[Leonidas]

Is it me or did you just use the textbook version of the probowl means nothing defense?

 

Step 1: Attempt to find a flaw in the system by finding one player they don't think deserves a pro bowl

Step 2: Extrapolate to invalidate Peters nomination

Step 3: Throw out the baby with the bath water

 

Really?

 

This is what I am talking about. Silly argument. Hey I can see somebody arguing the subtleties of player X vs player Y. That happens all of the time. What many don't realize is that Player X and Y are BOTH good which is the reason why they are both in the discussion. For the "pro bowl means nothing or is a popularity contest crowd" you actually have to say they are nominating BAD or MEDIOCRE players. Really? Come on! Let the hate go!

 

I guess since you know so much you should get a GM or director of pro scouting job. All of those experts that think Peters is what I think he is....screw them!!!! You know better than any of us do buddy. We bow to your inflated football head of knowledge and irreproachable wisdom. How could I doubt a faceless voice on an internet forum and trust those clowns with actual NFL experience? Those blow hard coaches, scouts and commentators don't have 1/100th the NFL experience and knowledge you have!!!!

 

By the way I never had a problem with Ruben Brown. He did get old, something Peters is not, but he was still a solid lineman when healthy.

 

Of course Ruben was solid. But in case you missed in, the difference between 'solid' and 'elite' is enormous. Peters didn't want to be paid like a solid LT, he wanted to be paid like an elite one.

 

Even ignoring the stats (which you obviously do), if you actually watched Peters play in '08 you would have known he didn't deserve the Pro Bowl nomination. If you think everyone who makes the Pro Bowl deserves it - most notably the offensive linemen - then you're even a bigger joke than I think you are, which is impressive.

 

Actually, the good GM's are the ones who can be contrarian at the right times and know the values of their players. Ever notice how Belichick lets his role players go and they do so little (i.e. David Givens, Deion Branch, Lawyer Milloy) after the fact? Because Cris Collinsworth knows Peters' name he's worth $11M+/year? Give me a break dude. You're a complete joke.

 

There's no hate for Jason Peters. For you? Yes. But him, he's merely a lazy, but amazingly gifted athlete that put himself above the team. But I don't sit around stewing about him or the situation, just calling it as I see it. You are just a dipshit, no matter how many exclamation points, capital letters, or sarcastic undertones you use.

[PDaDdy]

This is absolutely incorrect and the guy wanted the most money he could get like most every other human being on the planet

 

I agree but I thought I would be nice for once and ask for someone to provide proof before I said they were flat out wrong. There has no been no substantive evidence to back this up just plenty of haters on the forum repeating it enough times to the point where some believe it. If I'm not mistaken most of the "negotiations", or lack there of where conducted in private. Also If I am not mistaken Russ Brandon in a media savvy move spoke first about details of the negotiations.

[Leonidas]

Could you please provide a link substantiating your claim?

 

Actually, if you remembered, this is almost verbatim what Russ Brandon had said. I'm not sure that our offer was bigger than Philly's, but it was the largest in team history and he turned it down, and that he had every intention of merely playing out his contract and skipping town. But you don't remember how Peters played over the course of the season, I wouldn't expect you to remember such a 'mundane' detail as this.

[PDaDdy]

Of course Ruben was solid. But in case you missed in, the difference between 'solid' and 'elite' is enormous. Peters didn't want to be paid like a solid LT, he wanted to be paid like an elite one.

 

...and he was right he was paid like one. But as usual Buffalo took the cheap route and wouldn't pay him accordingly like they have done many times in the past

 

Even ignoring the stats (which you obviously do), if you actually watched Peters play in '08 you would have known he didn't deserve the Pro Bowl nomination. If you think everyone who makes the Pro Bowl deserves it - most notably the offensive linemen - then you're even a bigger joke than I think you are, which is impressive.

 

...facts many people like to forget when bringing up this also shot down point is that Peters was hurt, missed all off season with the hold out, missed out on acclimation to the new line coach due to the hold out and honestly wasn't in his best shape due to the aforementioned hold out. Hate the hold out which is a fault of the front office AND Peters. I do but I believe, like most experts, that he is worth it. He got the nod apparently for his talent not his health and conditioning

 

Actually, the good GM's are the ones who can be contrarian at the right times and know the values of their players. Ever notice how Belichick lets his role players go and they do so little (i.e. David Givens, Deion Branch, Lawyer Milloy) after the fact? Because Cris Collinsworth knows Peters' name he's worth $11M+/year? Give me a break dude. You're a complete joke.

 

PLEASE let's not compare the Patriot's savvy moves choosing between which of their probowlers to get rid of at the right time with the Bills being cheap as usual sticking to our VERY well, not exorbitantly well paid, average to above average guys. Look at our history!!! Do you consider that a proven track record of success? If you side with the front office you likely do. LOL

 

There's no hate for Jason Peters. For you? Yes. But him, he's merely a lazy, but amazingly gifted athlete that put himself above the team. But I don't sit around stewing about him or the situation, just calling it as I see it. You are just a dipshit, no matter how many exclamation points, capital letters, or sarcastic undertones you use.

 

First of all they are sarcastic OVERtones. LOL. And remember Hold out =/= Lazy. He has his career with injuries taken into consideration as proof. That includes his meteoric rise from TE to RT, to elite PAID LT in a 4 or 5 year period of time. Sounds like an extremely lazy guy to me I guess the excuse on that one is that he was just so amazingly gifted athletically that he didn't have to try very hard in the NFL to switch positions twice and make the probowl twice.

[Flbillsfan#1]

There are MANY Guys in all sports that TRY until they get that big fat pay day. It will be interesting to see how Peters career plays out.

[Mickey]

quality Left Tackles are so rare and so important. Peters has proven, when motivated, he is one of the best. problem is, he is not a self motivator. Short term the peters trade is a DISASTER !!......long term is yet to be played out, but i lean towards the bills did the right thing. i say this coming from a guy who would give up two #1 draft choices for an All Pro in his prime 9 out of 10 times. Peters is that rare exception.

I don't buy that a guy who rose as fast as he did and to the level he did is not a self motivator.

[Mickey]

And yet you felt the need to respond. 3200 other topics on TSW, but this one you needed to respond to.

 

The point of discussing this controversial trade is to learn from the mistakes of the past. It's a big problem with the Bills fanbase. You can be supportive without being ignorant. The objective of the management of this team is to make money and win if possible. Our objective is to win. Not congruent. So stop jumping all over the good players when they want to get paid. If management is good, support them. If a player is good, support him. Like it or not, Peters was All Pro. Wilson, Brandon and Jauron are among the worst in the league. Opposite ends of the spectrum. Why were fans all over Peters and not management? Bad habit. Support success, shun failure.

Exactly. Some fans are positively obsessed with contracts. I wonder if they come to the games with a three piece suit on with Brandon's name on the back?

[Mickey]

Is it me or did you just use the textbook version of the probowl means nothing defense?

 

Step 1: Attempt to find a flaw in the system by finding one player they don't think deserves a pro bowl

Step 2: Extrapolate to invalidate Peters nomination

Step 3: Throw out the baby with the bath water

 

Really?

 

This is what I am talking about. Silly argument. Hey I can see somebody arguing the subtleties of player X vs player Y. That happens all of the time. What many don't realize is that Player X and Y are BOTH good which is the reason why they are both in the discussion. For the "pro bowl means nothing or is a popularity contest crowd" you actually have to say they are nominating BAD or MEDIOCRE players. Really? Come on! Let the hate go!

 

I guess since you know so much you should get a GM or director of pro scouting job. All of those experts that think Peters is what I think he is....screw them!!!! You know better than any of us do buddy. We bow to your inflated football head of knowledge and irreproachable wisdom. How could I doubt a faceless voice on an internet forum and trust those clowns with actual NFL experience? Those blow hard coaches, scouts and commentators don't have 1/100th the NFL experience and knowledge you have!!!!

 

By the way I never had a problem with Ruben Brown. He did get old, something Peters is not, but he was still a solid lineman when healthy.

Even the Bills' front office wouldn't agree with that crap. Though they may not have been able to sign him, they did offer him a ton of money, finally. They wanted to keep him and recognized his value as a player, albeit belatedly. Unfortunately, they had so poisoned the well with Peters that the negotiations went nowhere. That press conference Brandon had at the start of camp in 2008 where he publicly lit into Peters and ignited the over the top fan hatred with which we are now familiar was an absolute disaster. Classic case of a newly promoted bureaucrat wanting to show how tough/stupid he his from the get-go.

 

Russ Brandon = Michael Scott minus the talent

[Flbillsfan#1]

Even the Bills' front office wouldn't agree with that crap. Though they may not have been able to sign him, they did offer him a ton of money, finally. They wanted to keep him and recognized his value as a player, albeit belatedly. Unfortunately, they had so poisoned the well with Peters that the negotiations went nowhere. That press conference Brandon had at the start of camp in 2008 where he publicly lit into Peters and ignited the over the top fan hatred with which we are now familiar was an absolute disaster. Classic case of a newly promoted bureaucrat wanting to show how tough/stupid he his from the get-go.

 

Russ Brandon = Michael Scott minus the talent

Or Brandon KNEW there was NO WAY he would be able to resign Peters, so he put his effort into swaying public opinion in the Bills favor. He was VERY successful in that regard, so he does have SOME talent.

[PDaDdy]

Or Brandon KNEW there was NO WAY he would be able to resign Peters, so he put his effort into swaying public opinion in the Bills favor. He was VERY successful in that regard, so he does have SOME talent.

 

 

Uh...link please substantiating this claim?....I'll mock you ahead of time because I KNOW you have no information that can back this up AT ALL! QUIT MAKING **** UP!!!! When will people see the football world and the Bills organization clearly? We don't pay for elite talent!!!!!

 

Maybe Russ Brandon REALLY is that good of a GM. He can underpay a probowl LT and then somehow make the guy look bad in the public eye with a significant group of the Joe the plumber six pack types. He trades away one of the best LT in the league and gets a 4th round rookie TE, who I have great hopes for by the way, and a C converted to G who now has a bum leg who will miss MANY more games than Peters.

 

Nobody seems to care that Peters was injured all last year. They conveniently forget that when they try to bash his performance last year. Tell the whole story people! Quit trying to spin things and you will see what we lost and we should be angry with how the front office handled things not applauding their cheapness.

[Thurman#1]

Of course Ruben was solid. But in case you missed in, the difference between 'solid' and 'elite' is enormous. Peters didn't want to be paid like a solid LT, he wanted to be paid like an elite one.

 

Even ignoring the stats (which you obviously do), if you actually watched Peters play in '08 you would have known he didn't deserve the Pro Bowl nomination. If you think everyone who makes the Pro Bowl deserves it - most notably the offensive linemen - then you're even a bigger joke than I think you are, which is impressive.

 

Actually, the good GM's are the ones who can be contrarian at the right times and know the values of their players. Ever notice how Belichick lets his role players go and they do so little (i.e. David Givens, Deion Branch, Lawyer Milloy) after the fact? Because Cris Collinsworth knows Peters' name he's worth $11M+/year? Give me a break dude. You're a complete joke.

 

There's no hate for Jason Peters. For you? Yes. But him, he's merely a lazy, but amazingly gifted athlete that put himself above the team. But I don't sit around stewing about him or the situation, just calling it as I see it. You are just a dipshit, no matter how many exclamation points, capital letters, or sarcastic undertones you use.

 

 

No hate for Jason Peters? Please, Leonidas. Are you really saying Senator isn't a hater? I mean, come on, you're just not being reasonable when you say that. There's plenty of hate for Peters on these boards.

 

Over the course of his career, Peters hasn't been inconsistent. He had one bad year, when he missed training camp, and over the course of that year, he improved greatly over time. Before that he was terrific.

 

The one site that looks at every play had Peters rated #2 out of all tackles (LTs and RTs) this year up until his injury. Now, as he guts it out on a gimpy ankle, he has plunged all the way down the board to ... 13th. Out of 75. #14 is Kareem McKenzie. #15 is Anthony Collins. #16 is Kaczur. #17 is Jordan Gross. And it goes on like that.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

 

"Jason Peters was the big off season trade acquisition and he started the season playing at a very high level before his play dipped when injured. Peters excels with his pass blocking where he has allowed only 3 sacks 1 hit and 3 pressures in 7 games (he was knocked out early against the Raiders). That’s not to discredit his run blocking which has also been very good, and you feel so far Peters is going to be a very good pick up if he can stay healthy. "

 

http://profootballfocus.com/articles.php?t...;arc=&id=73

 

According to them, he had allowed 1 sack, 2 pressures and 0 QB hits before the injury. That went up quite a bit since he's been playing hurt.

 

By the way #75 of 75 is Demetrius Bell.

 

Now, if Bell were showing any signs of playing well, I personally wouldn't be so horribly down on this trade. But as it is, we created an area of weakness which will now have to be addressed, most likely with a very high pick in the very near future, a pick which will now not be available to use to pick up an LB who's a banger, a QB, an RT if you assume that Butler may be injury-prone, a DT, a DE to groom as Schobel's replacement down the road, a WR assuming T.O. heads down the road, which he likely will ...

[stuckincincy]

The one site that looks at every play had Peters rated #2 out of all tackles (LTs and RTs) this year up until his injury. Now, as he guts it out on a gimpy ankle, he has plunged all the way down the board to ... 13th. Out of 75. #14 is Kareem McKenzie. #15 is Anthony Collins. #16 is Kaczur. #17 is Jordan Gross. And it goes on like that.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

 

LT is different than RT. #14 McKenzie, #15 Collins and #16 Kaczur are RTs.

 

The site you linked is checked to display players that were on the field for 25% of the team snaps or less. If you change that to 50%, CIN's Collins falls off of their ratings. And Peters drops to #12, as ranked by that site. If you change it to 75%, Peters falls off entirely.

 

I'm here nor there regarding Peters, but it seems you've chosen to show a best-case scenario

[thebandit27]

LT is different than RT. #14 McKenzie, #15 Collins and #16 Kaczur are RTs.

 

The site you linked is checked to display players that were on the field for 25% of the team snaps or less. If you change that to 50%, CIN's Collins falls off of their ratings.

 

Actually Stuck, that 25% means it includes players that were on the field for 25% of the teams snaps or more, so it's slightly more valid than you may have thought at first glance.

 

Nevertheless, the data they compile is pretty solid; very detail oriented and objective (as in good for stat nerds like me).

[stuckincincy]

Actually Stuck, that 25% means it includes players that were on the field for 25% of the teams snaps or more, so it's slightly more valid than you may have thought at first glance.

 

Nevertheless, the data they compile is pretty solid; very detail oriented and objective (as in good for stat nerds like me).

 

I see, but how much more above 25%? Why then would they give the option to revise for 50%, 60%, 75%? I guess I'm not getting something...

 

I won't jump into the keep/toss Peters fray, but I think all agree that BUF did a poor job re a replacement. As well as finishing up the recent game with no OL reserves on the bench. Agreed - it was an unusual happenstance.

 

Roscoe appears to be washed up - here, at least. I'm surprised they haven't peddled him off for whatever they could get, be it a 7th, and get a breathing OL body. IMO they should just chalk up his contract as an error, and eat it. That happens all around the league.

 

Perhaps he will do better, elsewhere.

Edited November 24, 2009 by stuckincincy