The Big Cat Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Nevermind "liberal"...Typically, I find that most people who hold to any ideology have opinions that are in by that ideology, end of story. The second-hardest thing in the world is to question one's own assumptions - the hardest is to identify them in the first place. I could give plenty of real-world examples from my own experience (hell, my own family - a large, diverse, and not always intelligent bunch. My mother, for example, takes everything Bill O'Reilly says as gospel). But one need not look any further than the current top five topics on this board - Hedd's mindless Palin-bashing, billsfan4life's unabashed jingoism, a global warming thread that is almost entirely dogmatic... The big difference between this board and reality, though, is that in reality people tend to seek out and associate with like-minded people, so find their intellectual prejudices reinforced at every turn rather than questioned. EDIT: Cases in point... I agree, but the response I was trying to steer you towards would have addressed the less concrete nature of liberal ideology compared to "conservatism," which, in my opinion stems from the fact that liberal-leaning people base their ideology on a diverse range of moral codes, as compared to conservatives who base theirs on a much vaguer, and therefore all encompassing code. And while I agree that both sides cling to their versions of empty rhetoric, the conservative rhetoric tends be far more vague (based on "values"), and therefore much wider reaching. As a result, it's much easier to paint someone as "liberal-leaning" because the term itself is so paradoxically vague by comparison, i.e., someone is liberal-leaning because they don't adhere to, or question the nebulous "values" which render someone a conservative. Jesus Christ, I've gone cross-eyed.
Gene Frenkle Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Intelligent and well thought out response. Don't be an idiot. It's called "being human". "Being liberal" is just a subset of that, just like "being conservative". Your anecdotal evidence with regard to liberals is ironically tainted by your own bias.
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Don't be an idiot. It's called "being human". "Being liberal" is just a subset of that, just like "being conservative". Your anecdotal evidence with regard to liberals is ironically tainted by your own bias. OK, think of the different panel discussions involving liberals and conservatives. What side tends to shout down the other side when they can't come up with a fact based answer? Who in Congress right now is resorting to smoke and mirrors and subterfuge to get their agenda passed? Actually think about this and then think about if these opinions are "tainted by my own bias" or spot on.
Magox Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I agree, but the response I was trying to steer you towards would have addressed the less concrete nature of liberal ideology compared to "conservatism," which, in my opinion stems from the fact that liberal-leaning people base their ideology on a diverse range of moral codes, as compared to conservatives who base theirs on a much vaguer, and therefore all encompassing code. And while I agree that both sides cling to their versions of empty rhetoric, the conservative rhetoric tends be far more vague (based on "values"), and therefore much wider reaching. As a result, it's much easier to paint someone as "liberal-leaning" because the term itself is so paradoxically vague by comparison, i.e., someone is liberal-leaning because they don't adhere to, or question the nebulous "values" which render someone a conservative. Jesus Christ, I've gone cross-eyed. This is how the world looks through liberal goggles.
The Big Cat Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 This is how the world looks through liberal goggles. Congratulations, your consistent failure to advance any dialogue has just cemented you as the first ever person added to my ignore list.
Gene Frenkle Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 OK, think of the different panel discussions involving liberals and conservatives. What side tends to shout down the other side when they can't come up with a fact based answer? Have you noticed the tea bag revolution? Stop digging a hole and realize that it is simply our nature. Only then you can recognize it for what it is and TRY to keep yourself from falling into these traps. It's not easy to accept or change this about oneself (cue the peanut gallery ). CRITICAL THOUGHT
Magox Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Congratulations, your consistent failure to advance any dialogue has just cemented you as the first ever person added to my ignore list. Considering that it is coming from you.
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Have you noticed the tea bag revolution? Stop digging a hole and realize that it is simply our nature. Only then you can recognize it for what it is and TRY to keep yourself from falling into these traps. It's not easy to accept or change this about oneself (cue the peanut gallery ). CRITICAL THOUGHT Nonsensical response.
Gene Frenkle Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Nonsensical response. Best you can do?
The Big Cat Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 What side tends to shout down the other side when they can't come up with a fact based answer? Nonsensical response.
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Best you can do? Yes, with what you gave me to work with. If you want a more complete response make some sense. I'd do better debating with Crayonz.
Gene Frenkle Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Yes, with what you gave me to work with. If you want a more complete response make some sense. I'd do better debating with Crayonz. What side tends to shout down the other side when they can't come up with a fact based answer? This descibes the Tea Bag Movement to a "Tee" . You disagree?
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 What side tends to shout down the other side when they can't come up with a fact based answer? This descibes the Tea Bag Movement to a "Tee" . You disagree? You've gotta be kidding me. You are comparing a grass roots uprising to a panel discussion? Like I said, you are not worth debating. I've got better things to do with my time.
Gene Frenkle Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 You've gotta be kidding me. You are comparing a grass roots uprising to a panel discussion? Like I said, you are not worth debating. I've got better things to do with my time. Thus proving my point about human nature. Have yourself a very blissful day.
DC Tom Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I agree, but the response I was trying to steer you towards would have addressed the less concrete nature of liberal ideology compared to "conservatism," which, in my opinion stems from the fact that liberal-leaning people base their ideology on a diverse range of moral codes, as compared to conservatives who base theirs on a much vaguer, and therefore all encompassing code. And while I agree that both sides cling to their versions of empty rhetoric, the conservative rhetoric tends be far more vague (based on "values"), and therefore much wider reaching. As a result, it's much easier to paint someone as "liberal-leaning" because the term itself is so paradoxically vague by comparison, i.e., someone is liberal-leaning because they don't adhere to, or question the nebulous "values" which render someone a conservative. Jesus Christ, I've gone cross-eyed. Maybe in a purist's sense, or 18th Century context, but last I checked Voltaire and Frederick the Great are dead. The practical fact nowadays is that "liberal" people hold to nebulous values just as much as "conservative" ones do. The values just happen to be different.
DC Tom Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 OK, think of the different panel discussions involving liberals and conservatives. What side tends to shout down the other side when they can't come up with a fact based answer? Both. Who in Congress right now is resorting to smoke and mirrors and subterfuge to get their agenda passed? Actually think about this and then think about if these opinions are "tainted by my own bias" or spot on. Yet another case in point. "Right now"? The Democrats, of course. Not because they're liberals, but because they're the majority party. But you have to qualify your question with "right now" to justify your a priori prejudice.
The Big Cat Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Maybe in a purist's sense, or 18th Century context, but last I checked Voltaire and Frederick the Great are dead. The practical fact nowadays is that "liberal" people hold to nebulous values just as much as "conservative" ones do. The values just happen to be different. That's fair. Let me ask you this, then: Do you know more self-proclaimed liberals or conservatives? For me it's conservatives, hands-down. And the only one labeling anyone "liberal" are conservatives looking from the inside out.
Magox Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Both. Yet another case in point. "Right now"? The Democrats, of course. Not because they're liberals, but because they're the majority party. But you have to qualify your question with "right now" to justify your a priori prejudice. Man, you are on a literary rampage today. Robert Frost would be proud
DC Tom Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 That's fair. Let me ask you this, then: Do you know more self-proclaimed liberals or conservatives? For me it's conservatives, hands-down. And the only one labeling anyone "liberal" are conservatives looking from the inside out. Actually, for me it's probably split about even. I will say, though, that I've known more self-proclaimed "liberals" who've decided they're really "independent", than I do conservatives who've decided the same thing.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that was a joke. In which case, that was brilliant. Just goes to show some people take this stuff too damn serious. America is stupid, likes to hate things. Palin in spotlight, so hate her. Americans are hateful, that's how it is. They love liberty though, so love it or leave it...... Is that why so many people hate Obama? is it me, or did she misspell the title of her book? was it not supposed to be called: "Going Rouge"?jw I used that joke the other day myself
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