Tolstoy Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 I am really worried. Ok, the national debt is somewhere around 11.4 trillion ($39,000 per man, woman, and child), and the federal deficit for 2009 alone is clocking in at 1.4 trillion. It is projected to grow worse each year--and that is before any additional stimulus programs, entitlement programs (healthcare) etc. See yesterday's testimony before congress: http://budget.senate.gov/democratic/testim...ny_11_10_09.pdf Folks, why are we completely incapable of doing anything about this train-wreck in waiting? There will come a day, and it is no longer very far away, when we will have only two options: default on our debt, or monetize it. Under the former option, the dollar loses its status as reserve currency, trillions get dumped wholesale by investors, and rampant inflation happens. Under the latter, we print money like mad to pay our debtors, and rampant inflation happens. Either way, catastrophe. I think this is the fundamental problem with our democracy: no elected official (whether Republican and Democrat) has the political will to do the unpopular thing of cutting spending and increase taxes to reduce the deficit (and ultimately the rate of growth of the national debt). You would be virtually unelectable after doing so. With rampant unemployment already happening, all we can think about is juicing the economy. Perhaps the day is already here. The Fed is running out of tricks in its bag. It can no longer lower interest rates further, so it has to resort to more extreme measures of buying up its own Treasury bonds. The fact that it has stopped reporting the M3 (measure of the dollars out there) suggests that inflation may be around the corner. I am sorry for ranting on. I am really really worried, and blame both Republicans and Democrats equally.
/dev/null Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Deficit schmeficit Don't have enough Washingtons? Just print more Don't have enough Lincolns? Just print more Dont have enough Hamiltons? Just print more Don't have enough Jacksons? Just print more Don't have enough Grants? Just print more Don't have enough Franklins? Just print more Don't have enough McKinleys? Just print more Don't have enough Clevelands? Just print more Don't have enough Madisons? Just print more Don't have enough Chases? Just print more Don't have enough Wilsons? Just print more Still not enough ???? Uh, we need some Obamas I mean what's the worst that could happen?
KD in CA Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Nothing that another giant, bloated, trillion-dollar entitlement program won't fix!
/dev/null Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Nothing that another giant, bloated, trillion-dollar entitlement program won't fix! Don't worry dude Once reality and inflation kick in, that $1T (thats Trillion with a T) will be about what your average American pays in taxes And by Average American, I mean those of us whose job has been "saved or created" by stimulus
Tolstoy Posted November 14, 2009 Author Posted November 14, 2009 Nothing that another giant, bloated, trillion-dollar entitlement program won't fix! Precisely. Don't get me wrong: I do think our health care system is broken--costs to much for individuals and employees, encourages waste (doctors charge per procedure, even unnecessary ones), and there are many deserving people who lack insurance. But for the love of God, how can we afford a program like this now?????????? Who are they kidding when they say that it won't raise the deficit?
Alaska Darin Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Precisely. Don't get me wrong: I do think our health care system is broken--costs to much for individuals and employees, encourages waste (doctors charge per procedure, even unnecessary ones), and there are many deserving people who lack insurance. But for the love of God, how can we afford a program like this now?????????? Who are they kidding when they say that it won't raise the deficit? The "Health Care" legislation that is currently being proposed doesn't even BEGIN to address the actual issues. No one should be surprised by that considering that Washington has been for sale to the highest bidder for a very long time. There isn't anything wrong with this country by getting control of the damn politicians. Voting EVERY incumbent out in the next 10 elections or so would probably be a good way to start.
/dev/null Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 The "Health Care" legislation that is currently being proposed doesn't even BEGIN to address the actual issues. But it made us think we are What are you Captain Buzzy McKill of the HopeChangeYesWeCan Brigade?
Tolstoy Posted November 14, 2009 Author Posted November 14, 2009 The "Health Care" legislation that is currently being proposed doesn't even BEGIN to address the actual issues. No one should be surprised by that considering that Washington has been for sale to the highest bidder for a very long time. There isn't anything wrong with this country by getting control of the damn politicians. Voting EVERY incumbent out in the next 10 elections or so would probably be a good way to start. I am with you here. What we have, in effect, is an oligarchy. Our congressmen and federal reserve officials are well-heeled and well-connected. Do you think they worry about the train-wreck in waiting? No (except a few honest ones). They will be fine. They have big savings accounts, hard currency reserves, diversified stock portfolios, etc. The rest of us poor slobs (and our children)? We'll be working for them. Living in tents on parking lots.
Acantha Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 The "Health Care" legislation that is currently being proposed doesn't even BEGIN to address the actual issues. No one should be surprised by that considering that Washington has been for sale to the highest bidder for a very long time. There isn't anything wrong with this country by getting control of the damn politicians. Voting EVERY incumbent out in the next 10 elections or so would probably be a good way to start. Do you really think this will matter? Maybe on the health care issue. Maybe on a lot of issues. But I don't see it working in regards to the economy. It takes a pretty special kind of character (not to mention the right understanding of economics) to make the tough choices that are needed to get the country headed in the right direction, and I doubt there is enough of that character out there to fill enough seats in congress to make a difference. Not to mention, the direction that we need to go will bring some big hurt short term. Even if the right people were voted in, they'd be lynched before they had a chance to make a real difference. As unfortunate as it is, I don't see a single realistic chance that we get out of this in one piece. The only good advice out there right now is to do as much research and soul searching as you can, and find the best way to protect yourself and your family.
Tolstoy Posted November 14, 2009 Author Posted November 14, 2009 find the best way to protect yourself and your family. Exactly.
Alaska Darin Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Do you really think this will matter? Maybe on the health care issue. Maybe on a lot of issues. But I don't see it working in regards to the economy. It takes a pretty special kind of character (not to mention the right understanding of economics) to make the tough choices that are needed to get the country headed in the right direction, and I doubt there is enough of that character out there to fill enough seats in congress to make a difference. I do - because they won't have the power to get anything done. There's nothing better for American than Freshmen Congresscritters and nothing worse than the entrenched douchebags on either side of the aisle. Not to mention, the direction that we need to go will bring some big hurt short term. Even if the right people were voted in, they'd be lynched before they had a chance to make a real difference. You're probably right about that. There's little chance of a soft landing. As unfortunate as it is, I don't see a single realistic chance that we get out of this in one piece. The only good advice out there right now is to do as much research and soul searching as you can, and find the best way to protect yourself and your family. Can't disagree with that, either.
RayFinkle Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 ...There isn't anything wrong with this country by getting control of the damn politicians. Voting EVERY incumbent out in the next 10 elections or so would probably be a good way to start. but "my guy" is not the problem. It is the rest of them...and there in lies the problem.
Nanker Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Deficit schmeficit Don't have enough Washingtons? Just print more Don't have enough Lincolns? Just print more Dont have enough Hamiltons? Just print more Don't have enough Jacksons? Just print more Don't have enough Grants? Just print more Don't have enough Franklins? Just print more Don't have enough McKinleys? Just print more Don't have enough Clevelands? Just print more Don't have enough Madisons? Just print more Don't have enough Chases? Just print more Don't have enough Wilsons? Just print more Still not enough ???? Uh, we need some Obamas I mean what's the worst that could happen? Well, it could be a new administration program to help people heat their homes this winter.
KD in CA Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Yeah. Just like spending $2 trillion on a war based on lies....... So, one stupid, colossal, cluster---- justifies the next one? Thank you for providing a perfect example of why the problem will not be fixed without an economic Armageddon.
Alaska Darin Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Oh, it's coming. No doubt. There is a tendency (on this board in particular) to shovel all of the blame on Obama when it fact he hasn't been around long enough to screw up much of anything. Bull. I'm simply pointing out who the originators of the train wreck were since nobody seemed to be paying attention while it was unfolding right before our very eyes. You'll have to go a lot further back than you did to find the originators of the "train wreck" and there's plenty of blame to lay at the feet of each political party. The Executive Branch doesn't completely control the purse strings, regardless of what the for profit media tells you.
Marv's Neighbor Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Nothing that another giant, bloated, trillion-dollar entitlement program won't fix! I'm getting sick just thinking about it. Where's my free health care?
Dan Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 The "Health Care" legislation that is currently being proposed doesn't even BEGIN to address the actual issues. No one should be surprised by that considering that Washington has been for sale to the highest bidder for a very long time. There isn't anything wrong with this country by getting control of the damn politicians. Voting EVERY incumbent out in the next 10 elections or so would probably be a good way to start. Agreed. The single best move this country could make, and perhaps the only way to actually change anyting, would be to have term limits on Congress peoples. Lobbyists and other Special Interest groups spend an incredible amount of time and money buying these legislators for a reason. The President is largely irrelevant in the discussion of the real problems in this country. Who's had more influence on this Health Care Bill, Obama or Pelosi?
KD in CA Posted November 14, 2009 Posted November 14, 2009 Oh, it's coming. No doubt. There is a tendency (on this board in particular) to shovel all of the blame on Obama when it fact he hasn't been around long enough to screw up much of anything. I'm simply pointing out who the originators of the train wreck were since nobody seemed to be paying attention while it was unfolding right before our very eyes. Yes, Bush, Clinton, etc. have all been bad too, and their policies have been fiercely debated and criticized, but those guys aren't President anymore. Obama was elected a year ago yet most of his supporters are aghast that he is facing criticism for policies that are increasing the budget deficit faster than anyone before him. Isn't it time we focused on 'who is going to stop this madness' rather than 'who else contributed to it'?
Tolstoy Posted November 14, 2009 Author Posted November 14, 2009 In my opinion, both parties share the blame here. While Republicans tend to preach fiscal conservatism, Bush failed to reign in federal spending. Democrats are traditional supporters of big government services and programs, yet Clinton did manage to balance the budget. Does it really matter anyhow? Every president who has engineered this train hasn't really cared about the broken bridge ahead, since they knew they would be no longer engineer by the time the wreck happens. No one wants to bear responsibility. As a result, our Republic is facing ruin, utter ruin.
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