BeastMode54 Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 I am of the belief that you need to build your team from the trenches out, but that being said, I'm not sold on Trent. If Trent continues to struggle, would you go with a top lineman for the Offensive Line, or do you go with a top QB like Bradford or McCoy? If you take the line and stick with Edwards or a FA the QB play may be awful next season, but the line would be improved, OR do you go top QB in the draft and worry about the line in the future?
apuszczalowski Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 I am of the belief that you need to build your team from the trenches out, but that being said, I'm not sold on Trent. If Trent continues to struggle, would you go with a top lineman for the Offensive Line, or do you go with a top QB like Bradford or McCoy? If you take the line and stick with Edwards or a FA the QB play may be awful next season, but the line would be improved, OR do you go top QB in the draft and worry about the line in the future? Depends on where the pick is and whats available. Right now the Bills have a VERY young/inexperienced line, is getting another rookie to replace someone who was a rookie this year really going to help? They drafted 2 linemen this year, have a decent "veteran" center, and a young LT whom everone expected to be the future LT for the Bills. I would say I would lean heavily towards QB. Trent seems like he would be a great #2, but I don't see him as ever being a guy that is going to put a team on his shoulders and carry a team
mrags Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 I am of the belief that you need to build your team from the trenches out, but that being said, I'm not sold on Trent. If Trent continues to struggle, would you go with a top lineman for the Offensive Line, or do you go with a top QB like Bradford or McCoy? If you take the line and stick with Edwards or a FA the QB play may be awful next season, but the line would be improved, OR do you go top QB in the draft and worry about the line in the future? I personally would have to wait until FA happens. Obviously if there is a decent QB, or LT/RT that is there for the taking at FA that totally changes my draft plans. Someone posted in another thread to make a run at McNabb during the offseason. That may be a possibility it may not be, but if we could get some decent FA QB I would be all for drafting the best OL'men in the draft with our first pick and get the best QB with our second. Gives us a chance to be competitive right away if we happen to pick a stud OL'men while letting a rookie QB learn behind an experienced QB. And if we fail because the FA QB sucks we have the QB waiting to take over the reigns.
papazoid Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 left tackle.....not even peyton manning, tom brady or drew brees would look good behind this line, let alone a rookie QB.
zazie Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 left tackle.....not even peyton manning, tom brady or drew brees would look good behind this line, let alone a rookie QB. Brees has one of the most egregious mullets of all time. He isn't looking good nowhere, nohow.
Bufcomments Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 If you have a smart GM you can do both. See what you can get with the Free Agents as far as the line is concerned. But I think if Trent can get his act together the Oline is top on my list, a playmaking LB a close second. If Trent sucks you have to get a QB in the first 2 rounds.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 The Bills need a Left Tackle. The QB class is not very deep this year. Personally if you could get Richard Seymour in FA, draft the first or second best tackle, with your first round pick. Then in the second get the best LB available, then the Bills have a solid team next year. Trent has a better Oline to play behind. And the Defense is better in the front seven. None of this mean much though, if Jauron and the entire offensive staff are not fired.
Thoner7 Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 A great QB will get us no where behind a terrible OL. OL come first last and always. Garcia is out there just waiting to take a team to the playoffs, and Trent could turn it around with a real coach who runs a real offense. IMO Garcia would end our misfortune for two years, over which a new QB could be found/groomed. Maybe its Trent, maybe its not, but all I know is I want Garcia starting in 2010. We could probably run the ball with an OL too.
apuszczalowski Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 If Garcia could still take a team to the playoffs, why is he still available? The problem is, will adding even more inexperience to this o-line by drafting a rookie LT really going to help? If Bell is not the answer after gaining the experience from this year, get a FA LT As for no QB being able to play behind this line, Aaron Rodgers seems to do really well behind a horrible o-line. A good QB can make a bad o-line better because they can make better decisions and get the ball out to his players. You can give TE all day to through, but it still doesn't mean he is going to be able to get the ball out to his WR's and not just check down every play
Thoner7 Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 I personally would have to wait until FA happens. Obviously if there is a decent QB, or LT/RT that is there for the taking at FA that totally changes my draft plans. Someone posted in another thread to make a run at McNabb during the offseason. That may be a possibility it may not be, but if we could get some decent FA QB I would be all for drafting the best OL'men in the draft with our first pick and get the best QB with our second. Gives us a chance to be competitive right away if we happen to pick a stud OL'men while letting a rookie QB learn behind an experienced QB. And if we fail because the FA QB sucks we have the QB waiting to take over the reigns. Not me. Best case scenerio is McNiel comes in as a FA. In that case I still target the best T in the draft because one tackle is not enough to help this line. Hang leaves much to be desired at C and Wood shifting there fixes that. But who plays G? Butler going back is an option but he has his ACL to worry about. Even if he can play we need a G or T to fill in where ever he is not. IMO you HAVE to jump at the chance to get two bookend tackles and hope Butler can come back from injury to play G. If not Hang can hold down the spot until Butler is back. Even with all that we are still in need of more depth along the interior, because as of right now NONE of our backups inside belong in the NFL. Aaron Rogers has shown he is one of the better QBs in the league. He is playing great even with getting no protection, but while his play is very high the sacks that result in negative yardage are killing their team. I heard on ESPN this week that only one time this season, last week vrs TB, has Rogers been sacked AND the Packers have had that drive produce points. AKA if Rogers gets sack, drive over. So while great blocking is not imperative to QB success, it is imperative to team success. The Bills have had zero success recently, and it relates directly to the OL.
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 The problem is, will adding even more inexperience to this o-line by drafting a rookie LT really going to help? If Bell is not the answer after gaining the experience from this year, get a FA LT Yes. A rookie with talent could easily surpass Tinker Bell and could anchor at LT for a decade. Bell is not and never was ready to be a starter. He was an economic expedient.
mrags Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 Not me. Best case scenerio is McNiel comes in as a FA. In that case I still target the best T in the draft because one tackle is not enough to help this line. Hang leaves much to be desired at C and Wood shifting there fixes that. But who plays G? Butler going back is an option but he has his ACL to worry about. Even if he can play we need a G or T to fill in where ever he is not. IMO you HAVE to jump at the chance to get two bookend tackles and hope Butler can come back from injury to play G. If not Hang can hold down the spot until Butler is back. Even with all that we are still in need of more depth along the interior, because as of right now NONE of our backups inside belong in the NFL. Aaron Rogers has shown he is one of the better QBs in the league. He is playing great even with getting no protection, but while his play is very high the sacks that result in negative yardage are killing their team. I heard on ESPN this week that only one time this season, last week vrs TB, has Rogers been sacked AND the Packers have had that drive produce points. AKA if Rogers gets sack, drive over. So while great blocking is not imperative to QB success, it is imperative to team success. The Bills have had zero success recently, and it relates directly to the OL. I agree with your point about the OL. I do believe that a good QB can make a bad OL look better and vice versa. We obviously need many things in the draft. Maybe we should draft the best 2 OL'men in the draft with our first 2 picks available. Then go all LB's with the rest of the picks. I would personally be ok with that. But if we do that we need a QB. Trent, Fitz are not getting it done. I understand with a better line they might be better, but they still arent making the right decisions. Maybe we can trade Lynch for something of worth or extra picks. That would work IMO. I also believe Kolb is a FA this year. I would be all about taking him at QB if we got our line cleaned up. The guy had two 300+yrd games in his first 2 starts ever. It seems like he can play. Just dont offer him any Rob Johnson kind of contracts.
BillsVet Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 LT fits the Bills template for using their top pick to replace a departed veteran. Personally, it's early, but I like Bryan Bulaga from Iowa. Still, drafting for need every year is an indication the team is not building but simply maintaining mediocrity.
Red Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 I am of the belief that you need to build your team from the trenches out, but that being said, I'm not sold on Trent. If Trent continues to struggle, would you go with a top lineman for the Offensive Line, or do you go with a top QB like Bradford or McCoy? If you take the line and stick with Edwards or a FA the QB play may be awful next season, but the line would be improved, OR do you go top QB in the draft and worry about the line in the future? Offensive line. It has been neglected for too long. Kelly was successful- in large part- BECAUSE of Hull, Ritcher, Wolford, Ballard, and Davis.
Cash Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 Not me. Best case scenerio is McNiel comes in as a FA. In that case I still target the best T in the draft because one tackle is not enough to help this line. Hang leaves much to be desired at C and Wood shifting there fixes that. But who plays G? Butler going back is an option but he has his ACL to worry about. Even if he can play we need a G or T to fill in where ever he is not. IMO you HAVE to jump at the chance to get two bookend tackles and hope Butler can come back from injury to play G. If not Hang can hold down the spot until Butler is back. Even with all that we are still in need of more depth along the interior, because as of right now NONE of our backups inside belong in the NFL. Aaron Rogers has shown he is one of the better QBs in the league. He is playing great even with getting no protection, but while his play is very high the sacks that result in negative yardage are killing their team. I heard on ESPN this week that only one time this season, last week vrs TB, has Rogers been sacked AND the Packers have had that drive produce points. AKA if Rogers gets sack, drive over. So while great blocking is not imperative to QB success, it is imperative to team success. The Bills have had zero success recently, and it relates directly to the OL. So how would you like the QB position to be addressed?
VJ91 Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 I am of the belief that you need to build your team from the trenches out, but that being said, I'm not sold on Trent. If Trent continues to struggle, would you go with a top lineman for the Offensive Line, or do you go with a top QB like Bradford or McCoy? If you take the line and stick with Edwards or a FA the QB play may be awful next season, but the line would be improved, OR do you go top QB in the draft and worry about the line in the future? You draft for or trade for the franchise QB first, if you don't have one on your team. Look at all the succesfull teams -they have a franchise QB, Go right down the line: Colts: Peyton Manning. Bill Polians' first draft pick after taking over in Indy in 1998. Nice way to start, huh? Steelers: Big Ben: first round draft pick. (Taken the very pick before the Bills in 2004!) Bengals: Palmer: first round draft pick. Pats: Already had Bledsoe, their first round draft pick on the team, so they took a flyer on Brady in the 6th round. (Only the great teams are lucky, right?) Chargers: Rivers; first round draft pick, traded from the Giants during the draft for Eli. Broncos: Straight up trade for starting QB's to get Orton from Chicago, working out terrific, but they traded their own first round draft pick because he wanted out of town. Ravens: Flacco - first round draft pick. Cowboys: The Exception: Tony Romo - I don't even know what round he was drafted in, but I know he wasn't a number one pick for Dallas. Saints: Traded for Brees, a starting franchise-type QB having some success with San Diego, but became super human with the Saints offense since the trade. Brees was originally drafted at the top of the second round by SD. Falcons: First round draft pick - Matt Ryan. Vikings: Signed HOF legend Brett Favre out of his 9th retirement. Nice first half so far, but watch for the 40 year old to struggle as the season wears on, weren't the Jets 5-3 or 6-2 at the half way mark last year too?? Eagles: McNabb is still there 10 years later, a first round draft pick. Looks like young Kolb may be a keeper too. Giants: Eli - number one pick in the draft traded to the Giants for Rivers by SD. You get the QB first, then immediately start to build or improve his offensive line, that same off season. Remember the Buffalo Bills in 1985? 2-14 coming into the 1986 draft, with zero talent on either line to speak of, other then raw rookie Bruce Smith at DE. Bill Polian's first big contract he worked was for Jim Kelly. Once you have the young star QB you can win with for the folloiwng 10+ years, or once you have the free agent proven vet you can win with for the next 3+ years if you are already almost there, like the Vikings, then you build the line around him as soon as possible.
Red Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 Actually, I will retract my original post. As long as the same 'ol personnel people are viewing this team, it won't make any difference who the Bills sign or draft. Fire Modrak and Guy, and we might start to see real change at OBD.
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 If you are asking the general question of whether to go OL or QB first, my sense is that in general a good QB will get sacked or be pressured into being a bad QB behind a bad OL. However, a bad QB will get a chance to do the feeble best he can do behind a good OL (even if this is simply this bad QB handing off and letting the good OL and reasonable RBs pick-up yards. The problem is one player can make your QB situation good but one player cannot make your OL good if the other side of the line is fodder. In general it is impossible to answer your apples and oranges question of comparing one player to multiple players. The answer needs to be specific to the Bills to have any reality and not just be general. Specific to us, the OL is so young and inexperienced that it would make Peyton Manning look bad. As much as some fans hate Peters, the experience and quality drop-off to Bell was so steep as to make things hard for Edwards and quite frankly impossible with two talented rookies at G and the injury to Butler forcing us to go with journeymen (and even worse future journeymen) at RT. This team needs to improve in the trenches first or it simply matters little who the QB is.
Thoner7 Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 So how would you like the QB position to be addressed? Jeff Garcia for two years and Groom a replacement, whether its Trent or someone else. I mentioned this is my previous post.
bills in va Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 I am of the belief that you need to build your team from the trenches out, but that being said, I'm not sold on Trent. If Trent continues to struggle, would you go with a top lineman for the Offensive Line, or do you go with a top QB like Bradford or McCoy? If you take the line and stick with Edwards or a FA the QB play may be awful next season, but the line would be improved, OR do you go top QB in the draft and worry about the line in the future? The Bills need to take the best left tackle in the draft next year with their first round pick. I have been arguing in these posts that we missed the boat on Michael Oher and instead took Maybin (who is a bust)! People want to argue with me on this but until I'm proven wrong....Shut Up! We need to go after the best free agent QB available for next year. Ideally we trade up in round one and take a left tackle and quarterback but I doubt this will happen. Unfortunately nothing we do in free agency or the draft will matter unless Dickbag gets fired. Dickbag would have the Colts and Saints at 4-4 and finish at 7-9.
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