GG Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm not sure how you stop people from wanting to kill you, but I'm quite sure the answer isn't to kill more of them. It simply flies in the face of logic to believe that you don't create more terrorists by killing off their relatives, whether blood or religious. I'm sure most of you haven't traveled much outside Western Culture but there honestly isn't a comparison I could make to adequately explain the Middle Eastern mentality. I think the General currently in charge in Afghanistan gets it, just as General Schwartzkopf did. Now if he can can somehow figure out how to exploit it. It shows right here in this thread when people blame "muslims", as if they're somehow lesser people because a small number of them are brainwashed tools. The Muslims I served with in the Armed Forces were no different than the Christians, Agnostics, or other religious groups. They did their jobs and were good to serve with. You get them to stop killing you by removing the catalyst they have for killing you. Strapping a bomb to a chest and walking into a crowded market full of women and children is not a natural human behavior. The Middle East is the way it is because they've hard time moving out of the middle ages. And because the ruling class can pump that black gold out of the ground and keep things status quo, nothing will change until you run out of oil or you change the ruling class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I must of missed this, who in this thread blamed "muslims", for being lesser people? You're right, I'm obviously reading into things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 You get them to stop killing you by removing the catalyst they have for killing you. Does that mean we stop building bases, supporting Israel,or figure out how to get off oil? Or all 3? Strapping a bomb to a chest and walking into a crowded market full of women and children is not a natural human behavior. And yet it's been happening throughout human history. The Middle East is the way it is because they've hard time moving out of the middle ages. And because the ruling class can pump that black gold out of the ground and keep things status quo, nothing will change until you run out of oil or you change the ruling class. It's super easy to talk about it. Too bad it's wicked hard to actually do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I totally agree with all of that. I think what people are saying is that it happens with the same frequency in America as Seung-Hui Cho going apeshit at Virginia Tech. Granted, there are a lot more Muslims around the world willing to do what Hasan did, given the chance, than there are Seung-Hui Chos in the world who lose it to such a degree they will mow down 32 people. It just doesn't happen much here, so people don't want to start accusing or inferring or worrying that all American Muslims are potential Hasans. How many Muslims are there in the world? 1.6 billion or so? And how many of them are extremists with serious intent to gun down Americans? I would imagine that there are probably as many American and coalition servicemen combined with trigger happy American citizens willing and able to gun down multiple Islamic extremists as there are Islamic extremists willing and able to gun down multiple Americans. In other words, a few hundred thousand each. Not to say we're wrong and they're right, just the opposite. But 99% of the Muslim population is not much of an actual threat. I agree with that as well, that a very small percentage of muslims are extremists. However, this was clearly a case where we had a muslim, who sympathized with extremists, who was against the war, and sought guidance from other extremists who had mentored other terrorists who decided to go ape **** and kill off American military personel. I believe what we are trying to say on this thread, at least I am anyways is call it what is, and that is "Terrorism" and lets stop sugar coating it for the sake of not trying to offend other muslims. It is very likely that political correctness played a role in the negligence of stopping this from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 You're right, I'm obviously reading into things. Are you suggesting that's what Chef, GG or I was implying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I agree with that as well, that a very small percentage of muslims are extremists. However, this was clearly a case where we had a muslim, who sympathized with extremists, who was against the war, and sought guidance from other extremists who had mentored other terrorists who decided to go ape **** and kill off American military personel. I believe what we are trying to say on this thread, at least I am anyways is call it what is, and that is "Terrorism" and lets stop sugar coating it for the sake of not trying to offend other muslims. It is very likely that political correctness played a role in the negligence of stopping this from happening. I'm not sure I'd call it political correctness as much as I'd call it the dearth of leadership that is so pervasive in our culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 And yet it's been happening throughout human history. I don't think it's happened at the same frequency as it's been happening over the last 25 years. Anyway, as societies progress and evolve, it's a bit perverse that many still cling to moires that were commonplace 1,000 years ago. It's super easy to talk about it. Too bad it's wicked hard to actually do it. But you can't walk away because it's hard, either. Because that will not solve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm not sure I'd call it political correctness as much as I'd call it the dearth of leadership that is so pervasive in our culture. calling it "political correctness" or "dearth of leadership" to me is basically the same thing in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I don't think it's happened at the same frequency as it's been happening over the last 25 years. Anyway, as societies progress and evolve, it's a bit perverse that many still cling to moires that were commonplace 1,000 years ago. The world wasn't as interwoven even 25 years ago. The world is a little tiny place now and the butterfly effect is increasingly evident. But you can't walk away because it's hard, either. Because that will not solve anything. I wasn't advocating that. Reality tells me it's time to stop doing the same things and expecting a different result. At this point it's just embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 calling it "political correctness" or "dearth of leadership" to me is basically the same thing in this case. Good. Good. The Force is strong with you. A powerful Sith you will become. Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth . . .Ofleadership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Good. Good. The Force is strong with you. A powerful Sith you will become. Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth . . .Ofleadership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I believe what we are trying to say on this thread, at least I am anyways is call it what is, and that is "Terrorism" and lets stop sugar coating it for the sake of not trying to offend other muslims. It is very likely that political correctness played a role in the negligence of stopping this from happening. Can we say at this point who the people are that are suggesting this wasn't an act of terrorism? EDIT: I take this back. I hesitate to call it "terrorism" only because of what "terrorism" is meant to accomplish. At this point, until more is found out, I'm going to chalk this one up as a despicable deed done by a mentally distraught !@#$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Can we say at this point who the people are that are suggesting this wasn't an act of terrorism? EDIT: I take this back. I hesitate to call it "terrorism" only because of what "terrorism" is meant to accomplish. At this point, until more is found out, I'm going to chalk this one up as a despicable deed done by a mentally distraught !@#$. Call it what you want. It's clearly an act against Americans by a Muslim motivated by the same hatred that motivated those involved in 9/11. His statements and acts point squarely to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frit0 Bandit0 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I agree with that as well, that a very small percentage of muslims are extremists. However, this was clearly a case where we had a muslim, who sympathized with extremists, who was against the war, and sought guidance from other extremists who had mentored other terrorists who decided to go ape **** and kill off American military personel. I believe what we are trying to say on this thread, at least I am anyways is call it what is, and that is "Terrorism" and lets stop sugar coating it for the sake of not trying to offend other muslims. It is very likely that political correctness played a role in the negligence of stopping this from happening. This is a bizarre set of circumstances ... any other soldier would have been sent to a psych for medical evaluation and I can guarantee no unit would have excepted him. This guy being a doctor sort of fell out of the loop for a real e v a l and from what I heard he wasn't taken seriously.... It was acknowledged he wanted out and his action were being perceived as those of cpl Klinger (mash) looking for a sec 8. Seriously, that was said. The Army paid for a doctor and they wanted their pound of flesh...It is felt it seems now by some that because no one would take him seriously it motivated him to act out in rage....Al qaeda would have been foolish to have anything to do with this guy Another point to mention .. If he was under surveillance and in all likelihood he might have been...He would have been left in place and allowed to deploy in hopes of him making contacts we could exploit. They would have used him as bait unknowing to anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Call it what you want. It's clearly an act against Americans by a Muslim motivated by the same hatred that motivated those involved in 9/11. His statements and acts point squarely to that. Exactly, like you said, call it what you want, but it was definitely motivated by some sort of sympathy for islamists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Another point to mention .. If he was under surveillance and in all likelihood he might have been...He would have been left in place and allowed to deploy in hopes of him making contacts we could exploit. They would have used him as bait unknowing to anybody else. That's kind of how I've been looking at it. It certainly looks like someone took a calculated risk in an attempt to add an intelligence asset - and it cost 13 people their lives. Sucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Call it what you want. It's clearly an act against Americans by a Muslim motivated by the same hatred that motivated those involved in 9/11. His statements and acts point squarely to that. Deeply religious people are the most easily brainwashed. Not surprising, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frit0 Bandit0 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Deeply religious people are the most easily brainwashed. Not surprising, really. Yeah your just going to have small percentage of guys who join the military, see a skirt, and have an epiphany (in laymen terms) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frit0 Bandit0 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Might I add it's the Marine Corps Birthday happy 234th .. all you devil dogs out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Call it what you want. It's clearly an act against Americans by a Muslim motivated by the same hatred that motivated those involved in 9/11. His statements and acts point squarely to that. Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts