The Big Cat Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Timothy McVeigh = terrorist Thank you, that would have shortened this argument significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If this guy's not a mass-murderer then what is he? Was he motivated by religion? We're still finding that out. Did I tie him to this "religion we're at war with" (a statement I resent)? No! That would imply it was a mutual collusion between him and the Muslim faith! That simply did not happen. Nor can you, or anyone else, say for certain this wouldn't have happened had it not been for him being Muslim! Was he motivated by religion? Did you see the powerpoint and hear what he said during his presentation at Walter Reed? Get you head out of the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Was he motivated by religion? Did you see the powerpoint and hear what he said during his presentation at Walter Reed? Get you head out of the sand. Okay, then address the last portion of my post: Are you certain this wouldn't have happened if he wasn't Muslim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Okay, then address the last portion of my post: Are you certain this wouldn't have happened if he wasn't Muslim? Yes I'm certain. %100 certain. Amazing Big Cat, how you can go out on a limb, and disregard the fact that he contacted Al Qaeda, met up with an islamist extremist who praised him after death and called him a hero only to be the same guy who met up with 2 of the 9/11 hijackers. Who spoke out against the military, purchased a "cop killer" gun weeks before the massacre, shot over 40 people, and continue to turn the other way and deny the very high likely hood that this was an act of terrorism. Thats really sad Cat, and it's sad that the rest of the liberals are all singing the same tune in lock step. As much as that pisses me off, you know what? In a way I'm glad that you, conner, blzboob, msnbc, BO and the rest of the liberals are mimicing the same thing, because at the end of the day, just as I am pissed, I am certain that at leas 60% of the Americans that give a damn about this country and vote on our elected officials, are also outraged that people are not linking him to being a terrorist, simply to try to be politically correct. !@#$ being politically correct, he was a !@#$ing terrorist, Jihadist, who killed 13 people who are in the armed services that go out and fight these !@#$s, just so we can enjoy our day to day freedom, that too many of us take for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Thats really sad Cat, and it's sad that the rest of the liberals are all singing the same tune in lock step. As much as that pisses me off, you know what? In a way I'm glad that you, conner, blzboob, msnbc, BO and the rest of the liberals are mimicing the same thing, because at the end of the day, just as I am pissed, I am certain that at leas 60% of the Americans that give a damn about this country and vote on our elected officials, are also outraged that people are making excuses for this scumbag. How is it "making excuses for this scumbag" by questioning whether or not he is similar or dissimilar to other mass murderers, or whether "terrorists" can be white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 How is it "making excuses for this scumbag" by questioning whether or not he is similar or dissimilar to other mass murderers, or whether "terrorists" can be white? I edited it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 How is it "making excuses for this scumbag" by questioning whether or not he is similar or dissimilar to other mass murderers, or whether "terrorists" can be white? Who the !@#$ cares if terrorists can be white? stop deviating from the discussion, this is about a man, who clearly sympathized with Jihadists, and killed military personel before they were set to be deployed to go to war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Yes I'm certain. %100 certain. Amazing Big Cat, how you can go out on a limb, and disregard the fact that he contacted Al Qaeda, met up with an islamist extremist who praised him after death and called him a hero only to be the same guy who met up with 2 of the 9/11 hijackers. Who spoke out against the military, purchased a "cop killer" gun weeks before the massacre, shot over 40 people, and continue to turn the other way and deny the very high likely hood that this was an act of terrorism. Thats really sad Cat, and it's sad that the rest of the liberals are all singing the same tune in lock step. As much as that pisses me off, you know what? In a way I'm glad that you, conner, blzboob, msnbc, BO and the rest of the liberals are mimicing the same thing, because at the end of the day, just as I am pissed, I am certain that at leas 60% of the Americans that give a damn about this country and vote on our elected officials, are also outraged that people are not linking him to being a terrorist, simply to try to be politically correct. !@#$ being politically correct, he was a !@#$ing terrorist, Jihadist, who killed 13 people who are in the armed services that go out and fight these !@#$s, just so we can enjoy our day to day freedom, that too many of us take for granted. I'm not making excuses for the guy! I'm trying to sever the rest of his religion from his actions! There's a major difference. Why aren't you pissed the US Military was unable to prevent this from one of their own?? EDIT: NOTE! i did not say sever him from his religion, I said his religion from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Yes I'm certain. %100 certain. Amazing Big Cat, how you can go out on a limb, and disregard the fact that he contacted Al Qaeda, met up with an islamist extremist who praised him after death and called him a hero only to be the same guy who met up with 2 of the 9/11 hijackers. Who spoke out against the military, purchased a "cop killer" gun weeks before the massacre, shot over 40 people, and continue to turn the other way and deny the very high likely hood that this was an act of terrorism. Thats really sad Cat, and it's sad that the rest of the liberals are all singing the same tune in lock step. As much as that pisses me off, you know what? In a way I'm glad that you, conner, blzboob, msnbc, BO and the rest of the liberals are mimicing the same thing, because at the end of the day, just as I am pissed, I am certain that at leas 60% of the Americans that give a damn about this country and vote on our elected officials, are also outraged that people are not linking him to being a terrorist, simply to try to be politically correct. !@#$ being politically correct, he was a !@#$ing terrorist, Jihadist, who killed 13 people who are in the armed services that go out and fight these !@#$s, just so we can enjoy our day to day freedom, that too many of us take for granted. Also, by this sentiment, you MUST support hate-crime legislation. EDIT: And that's because you can't separate his action from his motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Who the !@#$ cares if terrorists can be white? stop deviating from the discussion, this is about a man, who clearly sympathized with Jihadists, and killed military personel before they were set to be deployed to go to war. All I did was question why you thought Big Cat and other liberals on this board were making excuses for the scumbag. I saw absolutely nothing of the sort. I assume everyone thinks he's as big a scumbag as you do for doing what he did, regardless of his color or motivation or background or religion. I, for one, think they should get as much information out of him as they can, and then shoot him as fast as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm not making excuses for the guy! I'm trying to sever the rest of his religion from his actions! There's a major difference. Why aren't you pissed the US Military was unable to prevent this from one of their own?? EDIT: NOTE! i did not say sever him from his religion, I said his religion from him. I am EXTREMELY PISSED with the military and any other federal employees that knew about this. Heads need to roll. Gross negligence took place on the part of any military and federal employees that had information that could of stopped this from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 All I did was question why you thought Big Cat and other liberals on this board were making excuses for the scumbag. I saw absolutely nothing of the sort. I assume everything thinks he's as big a scumbag as you do for doing what he did, regardless of his color or motivation or background or religion. I, for one, think they should get as much information out of him as they can, and then shoot him as fast as they can. I misspoke when I said making excuses for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Susan Smith lost control at a random point. Andrea Yates did as well. So did Bernie Goetz. The evidence that's popping up on this guy appears to rule out an act of random snapping point. I havent been following the story all that closely as far as when he did what. My point was only that he may have always been this way just as likely as he could have made the transformation from relatively normal Muslim American to !@#$ American killing terrorist at any point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Also, by this sentiment, you MUST support hate-crime legislation. EDIT: And that's because you can't separate his action from his motivation. In theory I support hate-crime legislation, although there is very little in that piece of legislation that was passed that tangibly will help fight hate-crime, other than funding local authorities who sometimes don't have the resources to follow through with some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I havent been following the story all that closely as far as when he did what. My point was only that he may have always been this way just as likely as he could have made the transformation from relatively normal Muslim American to !@#$ American killing terrorist at any point in time. Except that you really have to dig your brain to unearth white bible-thumping terrorists, into which I'd lump ob-gyn killers. But there isn't a shortage of wacko Islamists who fit that characterization. Which furthers the inanity that people cannot come to grips that the wacko Islamists are winning the PR battle in the US, because people are too afraid to call a spade a spade. Until you can face the reality that there is a real problem inside the organization that is Islam, and until more people, especially Muslims start taking a hard stance against the extremists, we will have these inane debates of whether Hasan's bed wasn't comfortable on a particularly bad rainy day that he decided to buy some guns and ammo, and mow down 13 fellow servicemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Listen, your making a jump from mass murders to a guy who has the same belief of the people we're at war with. If you don't get the difference I've got nothing else for you. And if by virile you mean tiny then I'll have to agree with you on that point. I'm not sure how you stop people from wanting to kill you, but I'm quite sure the answer isn't to kill more of them. It simply flies in the face of logic to believe that you don't create more terrorists by killing off their relatives, whether blood or religious. I'm sure most of you haven't traveled much outside Western Culture but there honestly isn't a comparison I could make to adequately explain the Middle Eastern mentality. I think the General currently in charge in Afghanistan gets it, just as General Schwartzkopf did. Now if he can can somehow figure out how to exploit it. It shows right here in this thread when people blame "muslims", as if they're somehow lesser people because a small number of them are brainwashed tools. The Muslims I served with in the Armed Forces were no different than the Christians, Agnostics, or other religious groups. They did their jobs and were good to serve with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Okay, then address the last portion of my post: Are you certain this wouldn't have happened if he wasn't Muslim? That's a stupid ass question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Which furthers the inanity that people cannot come to grips that the wacko Islamists are winning the PR battle in the US, because people are too afraid to call a spade a spade. I wouldn't say they're winning the battle because we're not willing to "call a spade a spade". I'd say they're winning because too many people believe the only way to win is to drop to the lowest level. All that guarantees is a lengthy, expensive battle fought on someone else's terms. Until you can face the reality that there is a real problem inside the organization that is Islam, and until more people, especially Muslims start taking a hard stance against the extremists, we will have these inane debates of whether Hasan's bed wasn't comfortable on a particularly bad rainy day that he decided to buy some guns and ammo, and mow down 13 fellow servicemen. There are real problems inside every large organization. Why should Islam be any different? The garden variety citizen on the Arab Street has little hope of changing their lot in life and I doubt we're going to change their opinion of us by continuing to kill more of their relatives. At some point the tactics HAVE to change or the results will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Except that you really have to dig your brain to unearth white bible-thumping terrorists, into which I'd lump ob-gyn killers. But there isn't a shortage of wacko Islamists who fit that characterization. Which furthers the inanity that people cannot come to grips that the wacko Islamists are winning the PR battle in the US, because people are too afraid to call a spade a spade. Until you can face the reality that there is a real problem inside the organization that is Islam, and until more people, especially Muslims start taking a hard stance against the extremists, we will have these inane debates of whether Hasan's bed wasn't comfortable on a particularly bad rainy day that he decided to buy some guns and ammo, and mow down 13 fellow servicemen. I totally agree with all of that. I think what people are saying is that it happens with the same frequency in America as Seung-Hui Cho going apeshit at Virginia Tech. Granted, there are a lot more Muslims around the world willing to do what Hasan did, given the chance, than there are Seung-Hui Chos in the world who lose it to such a degree they will mow down 32 people. It just doesn't happen much here, so people don't want to start accusing or inferring or worrying that all American Muslims are potential Hasans. How many Muslims are there in the world? 1.6 billion or so? And how many of them are extremists with serious intent to gun down Americans? I would imagine that there are probably as many American and coalition servicemen combined with trigger happy American citizens willing and able to gun down multiple Islamic extremists as there are Islamic extremists willing and able to gun down multiple Americans. In other words, a few hundred thousand each. Not to say we're wrong and they're right, just the opposite. But 99% of the Muslim population is not much of an actual threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 It shows right here in this thread when people blame "muslims", as if they're somehow lesser people because a small number of them are brainwashed tools. The Muslims I served with in the Armed Forces were no different than the Christians, Agnostics, or other religious groups. They did their jobs and were good to serve with. I must of missed this, who in this thread blamed "muslims", for being lesser people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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