rstencel Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Still is prevalent. How is it that in the 1980's, perhaps 1 player ("The Fridge" Perry), weighed in over 300lbs, and now it is unheard of for an offensive lineman or interior defensive lineman to weigh less than 300 lbs? Linebackers, running backs, and even wide receivers who look like bodybuilding Mr. Universe's?!? Go back and look at the videos of games from 15 years ago, and look at the physiques of the players. Compared to now, they are sprouts. Now, the ignorant will say that training has improved, nutrition has improved, etc, etc, etc. All baloney! There have been a total of "0" (read: zero) revolutionary advances in training, nutrition, etc that would cause such a dramatic overall average shift in both the playing weights and physiques of NFL players. As someone who is schooled, degreed, and certified in athletic training, these physiques are clearly unsustainable without heavy dosages of human growth hormone, anabolic steroids, and the like. You at that training camp picture of Pozluzny from this year. I don't care how much weight training you do. Your mandible (jaw bone), forehead, and nose don't grow from lifting weights. Those are telltale signs of anabolic steroid abuse. The NFL touts sports strongest drug test, and I do believe that players pay it respect. But the drug test occurs in season. What you can see, is that the players circumvent this by juicing in the offseason, then tapering off during the year. Read the books out there. It may have been one of Canseco's, but he talks at length about HGH and its healing properties for an athlete. Now looking back, I believe that it was written by a former steroid dealer/ "trainer". Why is everyone so blind to it all? Good point. While training methods haven't improved much, they never used to have weight rooms in most high schools even, and even colleges didn't have weight training for teams except with a few exceptions. Now it is allot more prevalent at all levels. Only in about the last 20 years did football players train all year round even. Population keep growing as well, so more people to choose from to find the bigger ones. So while that can explain to a point at why players may be bigger/stronger than were in past, it does seem that some sort of chemical help would be required to get so many people to such a large size while for most part being in very good physical shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazie Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I would definately take Vick if Dungy were to agree to be the HC in Buffalo too. Dungy would be such a blessing after DJ. Same temprement but the similarities end there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Dungy yes. Vick no. Vick isn't going to win a SB no matter who the coach is and would only delay the need to find a real QB. He would provide hope that would divert the real opportunity to find a QB for the long term. Dungy on the other hand. In a heart beat. Gruden won a SB in TB with the team Dungy helped put together. Dungy helped win a SB in IN. He has the experience. However, if the current FO personnel stay, he would be severally limited in enjoying the same results here. I would definately take Vick if Dungy were to agree to be the HC in Buffalo too. Dungy would be such a blessing after DJ. Same temprement but the similarities end there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I Billieve in Dungy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribo Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 THE biggest reason speculation about this has little to no merit: There will be someone new calling the shots at OBD by the time Vick is let go by Philly. Yeah, so it seems our current regime considered Vick, but no one knows who will be leading the new regime. Until we do, there is no sense in guessing what the new regime will be willing to do personnel-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I also believe there is an entire thread to post your thoughts on Mike Vike. But thanks for clogging up the board with your opinion Zazie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 no thanks on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 The problem is it isnt going to be Dungy + Vick. If they sign Vick I have a feeling it will be another ticket selling band aid to buy time and sell tickets before Ralph passes. We need to hear rumors that person X may be pursued by Buffalo to be the GM. We need someone near the top who is capable of determining whether or not Michael Vick is still capable enough, if he is a good fit for the bills, etc.... we dont have that. We have 10 years of terrible decisions. This would be another on IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Good point. While training methods haven't improved much, they never used to have weight rooms in most high schools even, and even colleges didn't have weight training for teams except with a few exceptions. Now it is allot more prevalent at all levels. Only in about the last 20 years did football players train all year round even. Population keep growing as well, so more people to choose from to find the bigger ones. So while that can explain to a point at why players may be bigger/stronger than were in past, it does seem that some sort of chemical help would be required to get so many people to such a large size while for most part being in very good physical shape. As I alluded to earlier, arguments of the ignorant abound! Population in the US has not grown to explain the increase in body weight based upon a higher pool of people with which to pull. The other question, is how is all of this bodyweight suddenly transferrable to muscle? I don't question a large framed, basketball-type player being capable of eating himself to 350 lbs. What I do find highly suspicious, is then how this basketball-framed individual weighing 350 lbs is then able to find a way to actually move that mass, at such a level so as to actually play an entire game of football at such a high level as in the NFL. Clearly, you have little to no personal experience with training. I do not mean that as an insult, but rather unless you have attempted to do it with your own physiology, you would know not that which you speak. You have introduced an interesting furthering of what is out there, though- that being how college athletes are now demonstrating physiques and weights that were unheard of a mere decade ago. NCAA rules prohibit student athletes from working, and pretty strict on how these athletes can gain any source of income. How are they paying for their drug bill? Who is paying it? Agents? Parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Hyperbole anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 THE biggest reason speculation about this has little to no merit: There will be someone new calling the shots at OBD by the time Vick is let go by Philly. Yeah, so it seems our current regime considered Vick, but no one knows who will be leading the new regime. Until we do, there is no sense in guessing what the new regime will be willing to do personnel-wise. this is the best case scenario and probably the most likely way for me to keep my season tickets. Signing Vick in no way proves the Bills want to win. In fact, it proves that isnt anywhere near their priority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 There are psychological studies that have demonstrated a connection between people who disregard the life of an animal and inflict torture upon said animal tend to lean on the side of a psychopath and sociopath. Though I agree with your point that ultimately, people are more important in the grand scheme of things, I would have to steadfastly disagree that all he did was "fund a dog fighting ring"; as if it was some minor occurrence equivalent to, say, killing a spider. Dog fighting, rooster fighting, gambling...last time I checked, these were all illegal activities. What does it say about mankind in general, wasn't to long ago our nation regarded blacks as slaves and we treated African American's like animals and yet we choose to condemn a man through all of eternity now for something we help make him out to be. Myself personally, I'm going to give my fellow man, a man I couldn't even begin to know or understand, the benefit of a doubt that despite his wrong doings, he could learn from his mistakes and try to right the wrongs that he has made in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 So....does everyone let child molesters live quietly in their neighborhoods after they "have done their time"? Just "doing the time" doesn't necessarily change one's character and belief that what they did wasn't really wrong. And most experts agree that these people can't be healed. MV isn't remorseful because he now believes what he did was morally and ethically wrong. He is remorseful because that's what he needs to do to get back into football. He didn't simply "make a mistake" and then pay for it - this is part of his upbringing, his early environment and his personality. Yes - It is all about the money. Sadly, character and sportsmanship are quickly becoming a distant memory. I don't want him in a Bills Uniform. I could not agree more. I would add that a mistake is something that is just that; something not thought out, something that was too hastily said, done, etc. "I acted in error", "I'm sorry, I did not know" are examples of mistakes. Vick was far from acting as though his behavior was a mistake. Premeditated acts of murder, which also happen to be against the law, are not mistakes. They are deliberate actions. We are talking about a huge business, that makes millions, upon millions of dollars for its participants, and required vast amounts of planning (since he staged the events). He knew the risk. Yet he took it anyway. That is not a mistake. He is only saying that it was a mistake because he got caught. This is who you would want running your football team? This is the "leadership" that one can count on? You make a great argument, aussiew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got_Wood Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 The problem is it isnt going to be Dungy + Vick. If they sign Vick I have a feeling it will be another ticket selling band aid to buy time and sell tickets before Ralph passes. We need to hear rumors that person X may be pursued by Buffalo to be the GM. We need someone near the top who is capable of determining whether or not Michael Vick is still capable enough, if he is a good fit for the bills, etc.... we dont have that. We have 10 years of terrible decisions. This would be another on IMO. Couldn't agree with you more. It doesn't matter that this group of morons had interest in Vick this season. We need a capable GM to come in here and make the determination himself about what players he needs to bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 What does it say about mankind in general, wasn't to long ago our nation regarded blacks as slaves and we treated African American's like animals and yet we choose to condemn a man through all of eternity now for something we help make him out to be. Myself personally, I'm going to give my fellow man, a man I couldn't even begin to know or understand, the benefit of a doubt that despite his wrong doings, he could learn from his mistakes and try to right the wrongs that he has made in life. Huh? We made Vick a dog-killer? We made him, a free, supposedly college educated, "man" choose to have butchering rings at his home, despite what the laws of the land said about it? You're trying to claim that he was the victim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 being lost in the morality argument is the argument of whether this is the move the Bills need to be a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstencel Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 being lost in the morality argument is the argument of whether this is the move the Bills need to be a contender. Morality part is bigger in my opinion, but do not seeing him being near the QB he was in that past with the long layoff. He was never that great at reading defenses, or very accurate, but had a laser arm and extremely good running ability. Allot of it was due to his amazing speed. He isn't quite as fast as he used to be I hear, and missing 3 years is not a minor thing for a QB. He never was known for putting in allot of film work, or being a very accurate QB either. I do not think he will be able to survive on talent and instinct anymore, mostly because of the time away from the game. If he puts in the study/practice time, he may be able to become a good QB, but I just don't see him doing it honestly. While he has the physical tools to be a good QB in the league again, I don't see it happening, and don't think he should even be getting the chance to honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 being lost in the morality argument is the argument of whether this is the move the Bills need to be a contender. He will not make the Bills a contender. If he is so good why don't the Eagles keep him and trade Kolb to us? They won't, because they know Kolb is better. This franchise cannot afford further costly player personnel mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Uh-oh, someone put a mic in front of Lil' Donte again. Bills' Whitner would welcome Vick I like this part: Without referring to Buffalo quarterback Trent Edwards, Whitner said players are replaceable, and it's important for teams to bring in "other guys that can get the job done." Kinda like Jairus Byrd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 He will not make the Bills a contender. If he is so good why don't the Eagles keep him and trade Kolb to us? They won't, because they know Kolb is better. This franchise cannot afford further costly player personnel mistakes. Vick would be better on the Bills than Kolb. The Levy/Mauron method of building a team left us with no offensive tackles. There is virtually no pocket. Vick could run out of trouble at times. Other quarterbacks get killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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