Chef Jim Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 So in your mind it's acceptable because that's the way it's always been and they're on the side you favor? And this makes it acceptable for the other side also, I presume? If you read the first three words of my post they are it's not acceptable (not dev is gay) so no it's not acceptable, I think it's deplorable or better yet immature. And the other side you talk about, they don't represent me either. To tell you the truth my side doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 If you read the first three words of my post they are it's not acceptable (not dev is gay) so no it's not acceptable, I think it's deplorable or better yet immature. And the other side you talk about, they don't represent me either. To tell you the truth my side doesn't exist. Yeah, I know. But the partisan types who really need to answer this question seem to have disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 You're going to be waiting a long time. I never gave any opinion, positive or negative about the issue. No, the point I'm making is simply that if the proposed health care legislation all the right wing loonies are so up in arms over is anywhere near as bad as what is being claimed on this board then why isn't the plain and simple truth about it good enough to debunk it with? Why does the opposition party feel the need to exagerate, falsify, distort, bend, fold, and mutilate the truth in their efforts to discredit the proposals in the court of public opinion? Most of you guys will jump thru hoops to prove that having an R, L, or I appended to your name makes you a better person than anyone with a D, so forget the "They do it too" arguments. And forget attacking me, your opinion of me has about the same relevance to the question as an apple does to the dark side of the moon. What in your eyes makes those tactics acceptable? I feel that the vast majority of the objections to the bill are accurate and well founded. I've seen and heard little that I would characterize as false or distorted so I disagree that there is broad use of the tactics you mention on this issue. Some but not widespread. The main objections are centered around the overall cost, who pays, too much government control and limiting choices. What I have yet to hear from anyone supporting this bill (both elected officials and democratic voters that I know) are any reasonible responses to these concerns or why they think the bill as written is a well designd solution. I'm watching some of the debate on the bill on CSPAN as I write this. Republicans voice their objections with numbers and real concerns and the dems simply state things like "it's time we did this"or "this will provide coverage for people in my district who are uninsured" or other cheerleeding without facts. No dem will address the CBO numbers which are frightening. This is simply another spend and tax proposal from democrats. Sad it is. So I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to explain to me why the dems health care reform bill as written is something that deserves broad support. Tell me why it's a good plan and why we should not be concerned about the cost or the heavy handed government regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 What I have yet to hear from anyone supporting this bill (both elected officials and democratic voters that I know) are any reasonible responses to these concerns or why they think the bill as written is a well designd solution. I'm watching some of the debate on the bill on CSPAN as I write this. Republicans voice their objections with numbers and real concerns and the dems simply state things like "it's time we did this"or "this will provide coverage for people in my district who are uninsured" or other cheerleeding without facts. No dem will address the CBO numbers which are frightening. This is simply another spend and tax proposal from democrats. Sad it is. So I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to explain to me why the dems health care reform bill as written is something that deserves broad support. Tell me why it's a good plan and why we should not be concerned about the cost or the heavy handed government regulation. You hit the nail right on the head. I've been saying this for months now, the only thing the Democrats say is "we have to do this, the time is now, too many people are uninsured and premiums are skyrocketing." All they've done is diagnosed the problem, but havn't done anything to address the problem other than expanding coverage. You're argument is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Yeah, I know. But the partisan types who really need to answer this question seem to have disappeared. In the Middle Ages there was a health crisis called The Plague aka The Black Death. This was a serious problem and something had to be done They chose leeches and self flagellation Sure it wasn't the right answer. But at least they were doing something, right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 You hit the nail right on the head. I've been saying this for months now, the only thing the Democrats say is "we have to do this, the time is now, too many people are uninsured and premiums are skyrocketing." All they've done is diagnosed the problem, but havn't done anything to address the problem other than expanding coverage. You're argument is spot on. 220 votes for it moments ago so it has passed in the house. Pelosi looks like she got dressed in a hurry and forgot her girdle. Friggin boobs are down at her waist. I know, why am I even looking at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 So I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to explain to me why the dems health care reform bill as written is something that deserves broad support. Tell me why it's a good plan and why we should not be concerned about the cost or the heavy handed government regulation. This is the liberal holy grail. They don't care how this affects Americans. They only care that they are, in their own words, doing something historical. That's it. It's the message Obama has been giving to the fence-sitters all day. "This is our moment. This is historic." It's useless, and will do none of the things they want health care reform to do, but it's historic, and they'll probably be dead by the time the country realizes the financial and health quality assraping this will bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 This is the liberal holy grail. They don't care how this affects Americans. They only care that they are, in their own words, doing something historical. That's it. It's the message Obama has been giving to the fence-sitters all day. "This is our moment. This is historic." It's useless, and will do none of the things they want health care reform to do, but it's historic, and they'll probably be dead by the time the country realizes the financial and health quality assraping this will bring. Damn, this day started out so well. Then my Sabres go into the crapper, and if the House has it's way, so did my country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Damn, this day started out so well. Then my Sabres go into the crapper, and if the House has it's way, so did my country. I'm with you. This isn't hyperbole when I say this, but politically speaking and for the direction of this country, if the senate passes any sort of Bill that resembles this one, it will be the single largest mistake this country has ever made, and I mean that will all sincerity. One thing is for certain, never has our country ever been on a path to socialism as it is right now. That's the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 I'm with you. This isn't hyperbole when I say this, but politically speaking and for the direction of this country, if the senate passes any sort of Bill that resembles this one, it will be the single largest mistake this country has ever made, and I mean that will all sincerity. One thing is for certain, never has our country ever been on a path to socialism as it is right now. That's the truth This isn't a path to socalism. "Socialism" requires government planning or control over distribution of products or services. THIS ridiculous bill is too much of an incoherent and ill-considered mess to be considered much of a planned control of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 This isn't a path to socalism. "Socialism" requires government planning or control over distribution of products or services. THIS ridiculous bill is too much of an incoherent and ill-considered mess to be considered much of a planned control of anything. I hear ya, but there is a heavy element of Wealth Distribution in this bill, and that definitely is a step towards socialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 This isn't a path to socalism. "Socialism" requires government planning or control over distribution of products or services. THIS ridiculous bill is too much of an incoherent and ill-considered mess to be considered much of a planned control of anything. But don't you see? We have to do SOMETHING! Even if that something is "an incoherent and ill-considered mess," at least we're doing something, and the fact that you don't like this plan immediately means you are wrong. Get on board or the government and its sheeple will go all Edmunds.com/AP on your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 How did all this happen without AARP Rioting? To further add to our discussion: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9102603392.html But not advertised in this lobbying campaign have been the group's substantial earnings from insurance royalties and the potential benefits that could come its way from many of the reform proposals. The group and its subsidiaries collected more than $650 million in royalties and other fees last year from the sale of insurance policies, credit cards and other products that carry the AARP name, accounting for the majority of its $1.14 billion in revenue, according to federal tax records. It does not directly sell insurance policies but lends its name to plans in exchange for a tax-exempt cut of the premiums. Now, the group relies more than ever on payments from auto, health and life insurers, according to financial statements. From 2007 to 2008, AARP royalties from insurance plans, credit cards and other branded products shot up 31 percent -- from less than $500 million to $652 million -- making such fees the primary source of revenue for the group last year, the records show. AARP's annual financial report shows that 63 percent of that, or about $400 million, came from the nation's largest health insurance carrier, UnitedHealth Group, which underwrites four major AARP Medigap policies. Other carriers with AARP-branded plans include Aetna Life Insurance, Genworth Life Insurance and Delta Dental. AARP is also a major powerhouse in Washington, spending more than $37 million on lobbying since January 2008. The organization's close ties with insurers have long attracted criticism from politicians of both parties. Democratic proposals to slash reimbursements for another program, called Medicare Advantage, are widely expected to drive up demand for private Medigap policies like the ones offered by AARP, according to health-care experts, legislative aides and documents. hmmm, could it be that they stand to benefit from this Nightmare of a bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 In the Middle Ages there was a health crisis called The Plague aka The Black Death. This was a serious problem and something had to be done They chose leeches and self flagellation Sure it wasn't the right answer. But at least they were doing something, right No. The rich retreated to the country till the plague blew over or either buried the problem in cities like Edinburgh. That is what will happen today just as in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 No. The rich retreated to the country till the plague blew over or either buried the problem in cities like Edinburgh. That is what will happen today just as in the past. But they were doing something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 No. The rich retreated to the country till the plague blew over or either buried the problem in cities like Edinburgh. So the moral of the story is "Get an education, earn your worth, don't spend more than you bring in, live responsibly, and if the schitt hits the fan, you'll be ready to do what you need to do instead of waiting for the government to take care of it for you." I love a story with a good moral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 So the moral of the story is "Get an education, earn your worth, don't spend more than you bring in, live responsibly, and if the schitt hits the fan, you'll be ready to do what you need to do instead of waiting for the government to take care of it for you." I love a story with a good moral. Ya... Like that really happened with the inbred royalty during the Middle Ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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