ExiledInIllinois Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I know this is a baseball question, mod's please move it if it bothers. I figured I'd ask it here to get a better and more open response. Now to the poll questions. I say YES and NO. I say A-Rod is the classic example of how these drugs are over-rated. You can see the power of the mind when coming clean, it sets the player free and THEY PLAY BETTER. Discuss.
LeviF Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I know this is a baseball question, mod's please move it if it bothers. I figured I'd ask it here to get a better and open response. Now to the poll questions. I say YES and YES. I say A-Rod is the classic example of how these drugs are over-rated. You can see the power of the mind when coming clean, it sets the player free and THEY PLAY BETTER. Discuss. Wait, you say that coming clean makes a player better, but the PED's also make a player better? Never mind, you edited it.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 5, 2009 Author Posted November 5, 2009 Wait, you say that coming clean makes a player better, but the PED's also make a player better? Never mind, you edited it. Sorry... I edited, I was trying to word it fairly and got caught in my YES's
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 5, 2009 Author Posted November 5, 2009 Is the second question too tricky? This is my first attempt at a poll. I guess there is going to be a lot of gray area here because oviously the campaign against PED's has been a big one... The stigma and guilt also come from that aggressive campaign against PED's. I really don't think they make you better. Baseball is a very mental game and one can see clearly that A-Rod's head was in it more now than when he was on the juice. What I am saying is what is the point if a player has the physical ability enhanced and their mental game is in shambles. Of course this whole argument should not be taken out of context and used ONLY in a positive way.
ricojes Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I know this is a baseball question, mod's please move it if it bothers. I figured I'd ask it here to get a better and open response. Now to the poll questions. I say YES and NO. I say A-Rod is the classic example of how these drugs are over-rated. You can see the power of the mind when coming clean, it sets the player free and THEY PLAY BETTER. Discuss. A-roid used PED's to get stronger or to get over a hump. Sometimes you get to a point when lifting weights where you max out, you need that extra push to get over the hump. He took the drugs and got stronger. Just because he stopped taking them, doesn't mean that he is no longer benefiting from taking the roids originally. He only batted .250 in the series, but did display some opposite field power on his one home run, wonder where he got that from...
HopsGuy Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Two things: (1) The guy is a hell of a ballplayer, arguably the best of his generation. (2) He has not one, but two paintings of himself as a centaur hanging on his wall. I have no doubt that both points are PED-related.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 5, 2009 Author Posted November 5, 2009 Two things: (1) The guy is a hell of a ballplayer, arguably the best of his generation. (2) He has not one, but two paintings of himself as a centaur hanging on his wall. I have no doubt that both points are PED-related.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 5, 2009 Author Posted November 5, 2009 A-roid used PED's to get stronger or to get over a hump. Sometimes you get to a point when lifting weights where you max out, you need that extra push to get over the hump. He took the drugs and got stronger. Just because he stopped taking them, doesn't mean that he is no longer benefiting from taking the roids originally. He only batted .250 in the series, but did display some opposite field power on his one home run, wonder where he got that from... Ya... But I thought the come down/drop-off after taking them was the real bad part. I never knew that one could sustain that strength even after use. ??
Acantha Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Ya... But I thought the come down/drop-off after taking them was the real bad part. I never knew that one could sustain that strength even after use. ?? It's possible to sustain the strength naturally, as much as it would have been possible to get that strength naturally to begin with. The steroids don't continue to work once you stop taking them. That statement was absurd.
KD in CA Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Vindicated? Absolutely. He came clean about the 'roids, came back and had a huge year, was a monster in the playoffs and finally won a championship.
John Adams Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Vindicated? Absolutely. He came clean about the 'roids, came back and had a huge year, was a monster in the playoffs and finally won a championship. Yeah, he's a great guy!
Beerball Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 By coming clean do you mean having your name exposed and being forced to admit your cousin's mistakes?
ricojes Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 It's possible to sustain the strength naturally, as much as it would have been possible to get that strength naturally to begin with. The steroids don't continue to work once you stop taking them. That statement was absurd. Of course they do not continue to work after using them, but a weight lifter will benefit long after the steroid cycle. I knew a few users back in the day, they would hit the wall at a certain bench. I'll use 300 lbs. as an example. Well with one cycle of roids they would go way over that 300 mark, we'll just call it 380. When they stopped using they couldn't lift 380 anymore, but they certainly could do 340. So while the steroids aren't in their system, they are still benefiting from the use as they can lift more than before, hence becoming stronger.
Acantha Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Of course they do not continue to work after using them, but a weight lifter will benefit long after the steroid cycle. I knew a few users back in the day, they would hit the wall at a certain bench. I'll use 300 lbs. as an example. Well with one cycle of roids they would go way over that 300 mark, we'll just call it 380. When they stopped using they couldn't lift 380 anymore, but they certainly could do 340. So while the steroids aren't in their system, they are still benefiting from the use as they can lift more than before, hence becoming stronger. They may have been able to lift 340 the next week, but unless they were keeping up the work naturally (the same they could have used to get to 340 without steriods), that 340 woud have been back to 300 very quickly. In almost all cases, people who use steroids, even for a very short period of time, and then stop will drop below their previous high before their body adjusts and they work back up. Saying that a home run A-Rod hit after all this time (I don't follow baseball, but I remember the headlines being quite awhile ago) has anything to do with steroids is nuts. Now, if anyone claims he's still using them, that's another thing. I don't have a clue...or care.
PushthePile Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Of course they do not continue to work after using them, but a weight lifter will benefit long after the steroid cycle. I knew a few users back in the day, they would hit the wall at a certain bench. I'll use 300 lbs. as an example. Well with one cycle of roids they would go way over that 300 mark, we'll just call it 380. When they stopped using they couldn't lift 380 anymore, but they certainly could do 340. So while the steroids aren't in their system, they are still benefiting from the use as they can lift more than before, hence becoming stronger. Completely false. The body's natural testosterone takes a major hit when it's need is compromised by performance enhancing substance. The fallout is a system that can't produce adequate amounts of natural testosterone for awhile. Every person I've ever seen that juiced, immediately shrunk by a noticeable margin. I would imagine that the top of the line steroids have less side effects but he is certainly not benefitting from cycles years ago. Just not the case.
PushthePile Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 I know this is a baseball question, mod's please move it if it bothers. I figured I'd ask it here to get a better and more open response. Now to the poll questions. I say YES and NO. I say A-Rod is the classic example of how these drugs are over-rated. You can see the power of the mind when coming clean, it sets the player free and THEY PLAY BETTER. Discuss. The drugs aren't overrated. They work and the effects are dramatic in some cases. Average to mediocre players put up some all-time seasons and great players just put up absurd numbers. The proof of their effects couldn't be more obvious. The game was rampant with them and I honestly believe it is a very clean product. The best players are the best players, in a league full of juicers or a league thats clean. A-Rod personally might have benefitted from the relief of not having this secret hanging over his head but I think he just matured overall as man. It could have quite possibley stemmed from his fallout, many people take that path. His biggest benefit was the strength of this team. They just had a real team this year. A-ROD wasn't bigger than the Yankees and he responded positively to that. The guy repeatedly talked about his acceptance from teammates after his admittance. He's a different player and different man.
Magox Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 A-roid used PED's to get stronger or to get over a hump. Sometimes you get to a point when lifting weights where you max out, you need that extra push to get over the hump. He took the drugs and got stronger. Just because he stopped taking them, doesn't mean that he is no longer benefiting from taking the roids originally. He only batted .250 in the series, but did display some opposite field power on his one home run, wonder where he got that from... Oh paleeeese.
ricojes Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Completely false. The body's natural testosterone takes a major hit when it's need is compromised by performance enhancing substance. The fallout is a system that can't produce adequate amounts of natural testosterone for awhile. Every person I've ever seen that juiced, immediately shrunk by a noticeable margin. I would imagine that the top of the line steroids have less side effects but he is certainly not benefitting from cycles years ago. Just not the case. Alright, so maybe you know more than I do. But let's not be completely naive either. Do you think A-Rod would take steroids knowing that he would have to continue to use them for the rest of his career? Absolutely not. He most likely did not do a lot of cycles and used shorter cycles as well. Because the longer the cycle, the greater the chance of recovery problems . After steroid cycles there are ways to help in recovery, one way is to use Clomid to help restore natural testosterone production in the body. Or there are Testosterone boosting supplements that are helpful in raising natural testosterone production. That's what Ramirez got suspended for. Plus you can load up on Creatine after a steroid cycle to help maintain gains and prevent a post cycle crash. There are many options and a lot of people out there that know more about the drug than you and I, and I am sure he was getting very good advice on how to use steroids. The bottom line is he didn't do steroids for a short fix, he didn't need to. He did steroids for long term results, just like McGuire, Bonds, and Palmeiro. Now someone like Sosa and I-Rod didn't get very good advice and they shrunk big time. I know some do and I have seen it first hand, but just look at the before and after pictures and tell me that all steroid users shrink by noticeable margins. You have to be smart about it, but If you know what you're doing it can be very effective for years. But this is an A-Roid defending thread, so my bad and I will leave...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 6, 2009 Author Posted November 6, 2009 It's possible to sustain the strength naturally, as much as it would have been possible to get that strength naturally to begin with. The steroids don't continue to work once you stop taking them. That statement was absurd. Ya, that is what I thought. I agree with you. On the other note: I tend to think they helped his game during the season but hurt him during the playoffs... I suppose it is all the indivdual and how the handle the stress and pressure of the playoffs. Obviously, Big Papi was different... Or did his game sorta taper off during the postseasons when he was juicing (we all know he did)?? I just think A-Rod is vindicated and PED's aren't all that they are cracked up to be. Baseball can be a very mental and stress/pressure game, I think there are trade offs.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 6, 2009 Author Posted November 6, 2009 Vindicated? Absolutely. He came clean about the 'roids, came back and had a huge year, was a monster in the playoffs and finally won a championship.
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