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Similar things were said about Poyer and Hyde when Buffalo signed them. Poyer had played 48 games for 2 teams and started 10 of them Hyde had played 63 games for GB and started 33 of them It's true that Rapp had little interest after 2022 with the Rams (which is why the Bills signed him for 1 year, just a bit over vet minimum) I believe Rapp had interest as a starter after last season - I don't think the Bills offered him 3 years, $10.6M with $4.8 guaranteed because he had no other teams interested and Beane had his "Stupid" hat on. And he WAS signed for more than vet minimum in 2023, which implies he did have some interest. Same with Edmunds - Bills didn't offer him $2.8M with $1.6 guaranteed at signing because he had "zero interest" and Beane just loves to toss $$ around In any event, when a player has shown they can start in the league for multiple years, I stand by my take that it's peculiar to label them "not NFL caliber starter". They have proven they can play in the league and start. Whether they're good starters, or starters where teams want an upgrade, is another question.

I think you are basing your opinion on one draft where he got White, Dawkins and Milano. No one questions whether that was a great draft. The rest of his picks are pretty Meh! The 2014 draft was poor pick of Watkins, a few years of Preston Brown and then nothing. 2015 is journeyman Darby and pretty much nothing else. 2016 is Shaq Lawson and no one else. That leaves all of Whaley accolades from one great draft. Otherwise, no All-pro or pro bowlers from any other picks. Also Whaley's 2nd and 3rd rd picks were mostly bad. Whaley gave us greats like Cyrus Kouandjio, Reggie Ragland (who never played for the Bills), Adolphus Washington. His best day 2 picks were two mediocre players in G John Miller and LB Preston Brown. Besides Milano, which late rd Whaley pick made an impact on the Bills? None! By the time things are said and done Beane's 2022 draft will be considering vastly superior to Whaley's 2017 draft. The Bills currently have 4 starters from that draft in Benford, Bernard, Cook and Shakir. Now add Kincaid, Torrence and D Williams for 2023, Rousseau and Brown from 2021. Beane also added Oliver and Knox in 2019 and Allen, Edmunds, Teller and T Johnson in 2018. Harrison Phillips, also from 2018 has blossomed in Minn. Hard to call Moss and Singletary busts as they are starting running backs in the NFL this season. They just weren't an ideal fit here, but doesn't mean they were bad picks. In the late rounds Beane added starters T Johnson, Davis, Benford, Bass and Shakir, and good depth players Neal, Hamlin and Dane Jackson. Sorry, Beane wins this debate easily even with busts like Ford, Elam and Basham.

Tee Higgins was hurt and his QB was hurt. Did you watch the games lol He will sign a bigger contract than both Eddie and Edmunds because …. wait for it…. he’s worth more. Kyle Hamilton was drafted by the Ravens in the first, he’s a star. Trent McDuffie was drafted by the Chiefs in the first, he’s a star. They also got Karlaftis who had 10.5 sacks last year in his second season. The logic of some of y’all confound me a little bit. Our GMing is great. Our QB is the best in the league. Our team is great. Our coaches are great. How come the Bengals have beaten the Chiefs in the playoffs and gotten to a Super Bowl before we have when we are superior in everything? How have the Ravens gotten to a more recent AFCCG than the Bills have if we are superior in everything? How are the Chiefs defending back to back SB titles if we are so great? Maybe, just maybe, some of these things aren’t so great.

You can’t forget we traded for a starting CB at the deadline last year. Thinking our Edmunds comp pick was a third rounder. Look at Rasul Douglas as their third round pick this year. I hope they can move back 4-7 spots and get an additional 3rd.

edwards did fine but how about edmunds?

Edmunds Oliver epenesa rousseau basham Elam bishop We’ve acquired 7 defensive players and 7 offensive players with rd 1-2 picks. Edmunds wasn’t a reason we didn’t win a SB those 5 years- solid starter, definitely not a difference maker Oliver- very good player after continued improvement. A non factor in the playoff losses Epenesa- similar to Oliver in that he just continues to improve. Also similar in the fact that he doesn’t come up big in season finales Rouesseau- very good player- as one of the last players selected in rd 1- I think of him as good value. See above- no pass rush when needed most. basham- bust bum city- Beanes worst pick imo Elam- physical talent- just like all the bills 1st rd pick. They hoped he’d be a quick learner. He hasn’t been, but he still has a chance. High upside player imo. Bishop-tbd but I think we’re going to love him. The kid bangs and can cover. Poyer was our thumper enforcer in the rear. Bishop bring much more thump. Physicality. Imo- It all comes down to the DL. Pass rush rules the game and we’ve had none in our season ending losses. Zilch. I think Beanes free agents on the DL have been worse than the draft picks. Either due to injury, being bad or not showing up in the playoffs, his investments aren’t coming up making plays when we need them too. Coaches can help put them in better position- but ultimately, the players have to make plays. 3 years in a row, we’ve been without our best defensive player in the playoffs. White, von then Milano (along with many others). Those are the guys you count on to make the big plays. If Chris jones were to miss the 23 playoffs and sneed moss the 24 playoffs, I’d bet they have 2 less Lombardis.

He usually owns up to his bad takes, though. He has talked over and over about how he was wrong about Bernard (as was pretty much everyone) and that Bernard makes splash plays while Edmunds did not. He also has good takes that are sometimes unpopular. For instance, he was a Gabe Davis critic way before that was popular. He believed in Spencer Brown when most everyone wanted to replace him, then Brown went out and had a good season and was pretty solid all year long. His job is to give his opinion about every single player all the time, so he is going to have misses.

Is Edmunds even aloud to drink beer yet?

It was. Their other second round pick was a safety and their third round pick was a backup DT. They also got rid of their #1 and #2 WR this off-season. I will ask these questions, point blank. Do you think the Bills, over the course of the last 6 years of Josh Allen’s career, have done enough to put offensive talent around him? Your definition of enough may be different than mine, and that’s fine. Do you think the high round investments in defense have paid off? I’m talking about AJE. Rousseau. Oliver. Edmunds. Boogie. Your definition of paid off may be different than mine, and that’s fine. my answer is no and no.

I have a good friend that works in the NFL (not the Bills). When we discuss football I realize that his quality and quantity of information sources is much different than the information available to fans through the media and available film. He has told me on multiple occasions not to accept much of what we read in the sports media. He believes local news coverage is always better for their home team than any national media coverage of those teams. He also says to watch the games and really pay attentions to what you see and trust your eyes. The outcome of a particular play doesn't always indicate how every player executed their assignment. He also has said that coaches really do learn more about their players from practice than they do from most of their games. My point is that several things he predicted about players that the Bills either drafted or otherwise acquired was spot on (both good and bad). Example are Taron Johnson, Gabe Davis, Edmunds, Sammy Watkins, and Zay Jones. Several people that post routinely on this site have been spot on with their predictions on some of these same players over the years. As a result, I do pay close attention to posts by certain people because they have proven to be a good source of information.

I think Beane gets under-rated here sometimes - his long-term lock-ups have pretty much all been spot-on, marred only by injury (Tre White). But Josh, Milano, Dawkins, Power and Hyde in their prime, Oliver (a surprise to me) -- all great moves that have provided a ton of value and kept us competitive year-after-year-after-year (plus Josh's greatness, which he gets fair credit for projecting). And making hard choices on beloved players were all good calls as well (Singletary, Edmunds, Diggs, Horrible Harry). I think he is in a small handful of the very best GMs.

Edmunds found another way to screw the Bills. ☹️

He gave up a second round pick. And he could have just stayed where he was and taken Fred Warner or Shaquille Leonard without giving up any picks. Vander Esch was gone at 19 but may have been there ar 21 if Dallas took Edmunds.

So Bates 4/$64M beats out Edmunds 4/$72M? Edmunds is paid higher at his position than Bates in relation to other guys signed. Very odd how NFL is making these decisions.

His stats are better than T Edmunds ever were.😆

Like Whaley went after Sammy Watkins? Two first rounders and fourth to move up four spots to get a player he had conviction on, as you put it, while passing on Mike Evans and Odell Beckham, who were both available in their original spot and ended up having far better careers. Not saying you never trade up. It's sometimes the right move, especially for a quarterback. Beane has moved up four times, for Allen, Edmunds, Elam and Kincaid. Given what he gave up, that's not a very good record. Allen was a slam dunk of course, and Kincaid looks great (although La Porta was available in their original slot). But Edmunds was no more than above average, and Elam, well...

It absolutely is. My initial example in my response to the tweet was Tremaine Edmunds, who started 82 games in 5 seasons for the Bills. He didn't not get a 2nd contract from the Bills. He had his detractors on TBD, but he didn't get signed to a 4 year, $72M contract with $50M guaranteed from the Bears because league-wide GMs thought he wasn't a "hit" as a draft pick. To the contrary, he was regarded well enough that he priced the Bills out of his market.

Very solid list, and I'm a bit envious of your ability to create a table that's usable in this forum. I'm not as high on the Diggs trade as you. The Bills used a first round pick on Diggs and got four years out of him. But in two of those years, he disappeared later in the season and in the postseason. Also with the big new contract they gave him, he became a large consumer of the salary cap. Those negatives are partially offset by the 2nd round pick they received when they traded him away. I'm a bit more optimistic on Kincaid than you appear to be. Earlier in the year he was under-utilized. There were also times when Kincaid inexplicably lost snaps due to Knox. Those things being said, I was very happy with the job he did of getting open, and very happy with how well he caught the football whenever it came his way. You can't ask for much more than that, from a receiving TE. As a first round draft pick, I regard Edmunds as a major disappointment. But I'm very happy with Bernard.

Shaw is on to something simply for this reason: Beane has shown a tendency to aggressively improve draft position in the early rounds: 2018: Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds 2019: Cody Ford 2022: Kaiir Elam 2023: Dalton Kincaid That's 5 players in 6 years that he's moved up for in the early rounds.

First off, as you say, way too soon is not strong enough of a statement. Ask in two years at least. I like the late picks too and I agreed all year we needed them badly (so many wanted to trade up for one WR but they were only half right, we needed both for sure.) Second, how do you know for sure we will have plenty of FA money? I have been wondering about that all summer… We still have Von’s contract and now TJ’s and Dawkins’. The last two have to be healthy going into next season or that will crush us perhaps. I don’t know about next year’s FAs either, how many new contracts are due? We will let Spencer Brown go, no biggie, but anyone else? I’m really hoping for a return to excellence next season but things have to happen this season first. TJ is coming up on the age where small players playing big start to fall apart. He has to somehow remain healthy. Dawkins too but we are at least developing some tackle talent I think, but either way, if Dawkins is a no go his contract will be a weight around our neck. Beane has to have drafted much better between the 2022 - 2024 drafts than the Edmunds pick - 2021 (a long time for meh, about a C+ grade overall.) Then we need that plenty of FA money you are talking about and then we have to nail another draft using those extra picks we you have been talking about: WR, DE, CB, S, DT, S, WR…. We need some very sound players and a couple great ones…. Beane’s tremendous picks so far: Allen. Great picks: TJ, Gabe…. Then it falls to good picks….Ed, Groot, etc…. then meh…with a few stinkers…. C+……

Nice try. Sean took over play calling for the :13 and blew the whole thing. While Sean's aggressiveness certainly lead to more sacks, something we all welcomed, Sean's D folded in key moments against the Eagles, Bucs, Broncos, Pats, Giants and Chiefs. And 2 of those losses were partially the result of a mistimed blitz. If you want to compare numbers, Seans' D was ranked 12th in DVOA in 2023 compared to Leslie's #2 rank in 2022 and #1 rank in 2021. And Injuries were not unique to Sean's D in 2023. In 2022, Leslie Frazier's #2 ranked D went 13-3 missing the following players. Micah Hyde - 15 games Tre White - 11 games Von Miller - 8 Games Christian Benford - 7 games Damar Hamlin - 5 games Jordan Phillips - 4 games Jordan Poyer - 4 Games Gregory Rousseau - 3 Games Tremain Edmunds - 2 Games Ed Oliver - 2 Games Daquan Jones - 1 Game (Bengals Playoff) Boogie Basham - 1 Game Dane Jackson - 1 Game Now Sean is handing the DC job to a rookie coordinator. Hopefully, it's not another mistake like Ken Dorsey.

That and the fact that I never need to hear that song or an Edmunds joke ever again.

I think there may have been less interest in 2021 when the team was essentially "running it back" with few personnel changes and was widely expected to contend again. In general, though, I think you are right After the 13 seconds game in 2022, there was pretty intense interest in how the Bills were going to respond and a lot of sh**ing on McDermott, and of course, there were feelings about the big Von Miller signing, and what the Bills were going to do to fill in for Tre White early in the season. In 2023, there was interest in how the Bills were going to handle Von Miller coming back from injury, how they were going to replace Tremaine Edmunds, and whether Gabe Davis would take a step as the full time #2 (also whether Harty and Sherfield would contribute) And of course now, there's intense interest in the WR corps as well as what are we going to do at Safety

Tomlin won one Super Bowl. Big Ben's first Super Bowl was Cowher's last year. McDermott's defenses have folded in the playoffs. We just haven't been good enough. Pittsburgh's front 7 back in the early Tomlin years was much more dominant then the Bills front 7. They had James Harrison, James Farrior Lamar Woodley Casey Hampton Lawrence Timmons, Brett Keisel etc. Just a better unit then ours. We had Tremaine Edmunds Jordan Phillips, Shaq Lawson etc. You get the picture. And last year when we finally had studs at LB in Milano and Bernard, they and a bunch of other guys were injured in the playoffs. Tomlin's teams the past many years have not been very good. They haven't sucked. But they have not been contenders. But Tomlin will be there a while. That's Pittsburgh's way. Unless they are 5-12, the Steelers will continue to be what they are. And that's fine with me. Because we have always matched up well against them since McDermott has been our head coach.

You can't make this ***** up... How we did not get one for Edmunds blows my mind.