Lt. Dan's Revenge

22nd isn't a bad number by any means, but still seems a little low to me. Just for some perspective, off the top of my head I could name 12 guys who I think are better receivers in this league right now, in no particular order: R. Moss L. Fitzgerald S. Smith A. Johnson A. Boldin R. Wayne M. Coston T. Houshmanzadeh B. Marshall T.O. G. Jennings Calvin Johnson If anyone has any to add that they think are better than #83 at this stage, feel free!

You're right about that. Cleveland State is a very, very solid college basketball team. Which is why you cannot be upset with this automatic bid situation as you can with many others. I watched the whole game when they beat Cuse on that last second miracle, and trust me, the Orange should have been the one that need to throw up that last second shot, because Cleveland State outplayed them almost the entire game in the Carrier Dome IMO. Looking at potential 4-6 seeds, teams like UCLA, Illinois, and Cal, all of whom I think are overrated and have one and done potential in the tourney, better hope that they don't draw Cleveland St. If you want an even lesser-known team with first round upset potential of even a weak 3 seed: East Tennessee St. could be that team. They are a very experienced team with 2 seniors and a junior all AVERAGING over 15 points a game. If they can put together anywhere near 40 minutes of solid defensive play, look out.

Granted, but isn't it very possible that it isn't so much that Evans doesn't have the ability or willingness to run these short, middle of the field routes, but that it just isn't incorporated into the Bills offensive gameplan for him as much as it should be? I think if he had the opportunity to run more crossing routes he could be very successful considering his open field speed and agility. Somehow I doubt he simply does not have it in his arsenal as a receiver or has some fear of doing so.

Okay, maybe I am thinking about more deep in routes, because I know some Evans converted some first downs on those last season. I also remember a decent amount of quick slants going over the middle with him, which we could use even more of. Drag routes which forces a linebacker to pick him up in coverage more often than not? Eh, not so much. But I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing. You don't want him to take that kind of a beating week in and week out and get him killed. That doesn't make him any less of a receiver though. Owens should handle a lot of that along with Reed this season. JMO.

Yes, he does. And more so than ever last year unless I'm completely missing something.

In the past 3 years, Evans has been catching balls from Losman, whose struggles need no introduction, and Edwards in his first dozen starts as an NFL quarterback. In these 3 years he's averaged 1053, over 15 yards per catch, which is very strong, and 5 touchdowns. I would characterize that as "overcoming" just fine. Peerless Price had Eric Moulds, probably the 2nd best receiver in franchise history, across from him during his two above average seasons in Buffalo. Who has Evans had the past three seasons? That is a bad comparison. Lee is also clearly among the handful of receivers that are considered the best deep threats in the NFL, is not afraid to go over the middle even at a relatively small size, has great hands, and has proven that he is also servicable around the end zone. He is a full season of ample quarterbacking play and a legitimate threat on the other side of the field away from putting up numbers that are top-10 in the NFL worthy.

Yes, Evans is "that" good IMO, and I think most people would agree. He has not just pro-bowl, but hall of fame talent. He has just had inept quarterback play, offensive line play, and play callers for the vast majority of his career. Not even the best of the best can put up the best numbers that they are capable of in that situation.

Although I don't know how I feel about the automatic big process, I sure as hell know how I feel about the Gators taking a big hit because of it !!!!

Let the automatic bid debate begin.....I don't even know where I stand on it. It obviously makes the conference tournaments much more interesting, but it does suck seeing better teams from better conferences not get into the tournament just because some team from the Horizon League like Butler, who is already going to be in the field, lays an egg in a game that means very little to them and everything to a team like Cleveland St. Not to say Cleveland State isn't a good basketball team this year, because they are, but I can sympathize with the teams that know their tournament hopes took a HUGE hit last night.

I have no problem with Cutler's disposition, or whatever you'd like to label it, either. I'd rather have a guy like that who isn't afraid to stand up to a receiver like T.O. and give it right back to him than someone whose confidence is going to be shattered the 2nd time he's called out by any receiver in this league, much less one of the greatest of all-time. That is the one thing I'm afraid of as far as Edwards goes. IMO quarterbacks need to be the confident (maybe borderline arrogant), vocal leaders of their team, and must be able to both take criticism in stride, and dish it right back if need be.

I was basing this on the fact that Philly is REALLY looking for an offensive tackle, which is pretty obvious since they let Tra Thomas walk and are interested in exploring trade options for Peters. There are four really good tackles in this draft by most accounts - Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith, and Michael Oher - none of which have the probability of falling to #21 it seems. So, if this is the case and Philly doesn't get a replacement for Thomas in free agency, they very well might have to move up anywhere from 5-15 picks in the first round to get one of these guys. And it may be enough of a need to swap a 2nd round pick for our 3rd essentially. What makes that speculation so unrealistic?

The Maybin and Kelsay parallel is completely irrelevant. Two different players. Two different years. Just because Maybin has the possibility of going from a "projected" first round pick to the second round like Chris Kelsay doesn't mean that we shouldn't draft Maybin in that situation and/or he won't be successful in the NFL like Kelsay by and large hasn't. Kelsay's situation then isn't a good way to compare Maybin's now. Period.

That seems a bit more accurate!

Yeah...I thought he had 12...? 33 just seems like a crazy number.

Trust me, I'm seeing your attempt at a point 20/20, but my point is how the hell do you know who is going to be a bust in this league??? How do you know that the player who slips from being projected to us by whoever at #11 and ends up in late 1st or 2nd round is going to be a bust? Just because he slipped further than projected? Your argument makes zero sense and really shouldn't even be considered an argument. There are a ton of really good players, pro bowlers, in this league that have went lower in the draft then they were projected. And what is this Ryan Leaf stuff that is completely random and isn't even a clear thought? You're all over the board.

If you want to put things into perspective a little, at their respective combines Miller ran a 4.79 and Pettigrew ran a 4.87. So you're really splitting hairs there. Also, I personally think Pettigrew had a slow day for himself running and that he could drop that down into the low 4.7 range easily. There had been reports (accurate or not, who knows) of him running in the 4.5-4.6 range in the past, so who knows what could happen with his 40 time at his pro-day and beyond.

I think Maybin can play defensive end in a 4-3 scheme in this league, and play it pretty well. Does this mean I want the Bills to take him at #11? No, and I never said that I did. Would I like the idea of taking him later in the first round if we trade back in, or in the 2nd round, LIKE WHAT WAS POINTED OUT IN THIS MOCK AND OUR DISCUSSION? Yes, I would. You inferred from your comments that every player that "free falls" out of an earlier draft position and into a later one is going to be a "bust" and should not be drafted, i.e. Chris Kelsay. This is an utterly illegitmate and useless argument. This all began when you compared our potential drafting of Maybin in the 2nd round to our drafting of Kelsay when he "slipped" into the 2nd round. The two players and situations have absolutely nothing to do with one another and that is where all of your stupidity and condescending nonsense began. We know that you hate Aaron Maybin, and any other guy that may or may not slip from the first to the second round, because they will all inevitably be busts. Right. Give it a rest.

Is it really that slow of a Tuesday...?

Listen buddy, I think OUR point has been that we never said you should draft somebody in the 2nd round or whatever, just because they are in a "free fall" out of a higher draft place. Please show me where I, or anyone else, used that logic. Just because Maybin didn't have the best combine and you obviously have pretty strong feelings about him being a bust doesn't mean everyone else on this board, in the state of New York, or in this country for that matter agree with your ever so strong feelings about his bust potential. It sure as hell doesn't mean he is going to turn out to be a bust. And why are you quoting Walters Football as if it was coming from the mouths of me and Haze? We both liked their mock draft for the Bills, period. What "research" did we steal or use from somewhere else? The bottom line is I think Maybin has the potential to be a good 4-3 defensive end in this league. This is my opinion. And by the way, since you keep spouting off about free-falling players who run 40's similar to Mitch King's, how about Lamarr Woodley a couple years ago? Man did he have a bad combine, and a slow 40 time. How stupid were the Steelers to take that "free faller" in the 2nd round. I feel like I am becoming less and less intelligent from responding to all of your nonsense, so I'm going to stop.

I don't wanna be anywhere near Stl Bills, or this board for that matter, if the Bills don't have a tight end drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round and pass up on Coffman....

What....? This is the most ridiculous rationale I have ever heard of in my life. When did anyone ever say we should draft a guy in the 2nd round that was projected to be a 1st rounder just because he slipped to the next round? Where did you get that from the conversation? And how do YOU, or anyone else for that matter, know that a player who is projected to go a round earlier than he does "is going to be a bust"? Ridiculous argument, if you could even call it one. More like organized insanity.

True. Although, Pettigrew did miss 4+ games due to injury last season, so if you pro-rate his statistics you'd be looking at 60+ catches and 700+ yards, to go along with 540 yards and 4 touchdowns as a junior. The zero touchdowns as a senior is a bit troubling though....

Completely irrelevant. Erik Flowers was a projected first rounder who we took in the first round. Look how well that turned out too.

People aren't high on Pettigrew because he is a really good WORKOUT WARRIOR ala Vernon Davis that year. People are high on him because he is a really good FOOTBALL PLAYER, something that Davis didn't prove to be the majority of his time in college at Maryland which has carried over into his professional career after that ridiculous workout. Pettigrew isn't out there running 4.4, 4.5 40's at his size and dominating the bench reps at the same time. He's proving to be a very good pass catching tight end, with great strength, and the ability to block equally as well. It's unfair to compare him to a guy like Davis at this point.

Maybe 5 if we trade Peters for Cutler.