BillsVet

With these guys, it might take 4 seasons to get it right. In the wake of players like Vlad Ducasse, Andre Holmes, Mike Tolbert, Anquan Boldin, Kelvin Benjamin, Marshall Newhouse, Corey Coleman, Chris Ivory, and Zay Jones what makes you believe they're going to pick good offensive starters this year and beyond? I'm optimistic for Allen, but they've done little to put together a competent offense in the first two off-seasons.

Says the guy who once had as their avatar a naked picture of OJ Simpson. Stay classy!

I'm interested to hear what you consider "good job" is? It'd be one thing to complain about a team that wins 10+ games consistently. Doing so for a team stuck in mediocrity for so long isn't out of the ordinary. What is strange is how people never fail to defend a mediocre product and invent new ways to do so. And then, when they are challenged to do so, they revert to just saying pablum like "enjoy the ride" or "i'm happy, you're not." I've seen it for years now.

Who's saying they're deceptive? I'm not. They've been up front that this is going to take time. I'm questioning why, at this point, it's likely going to be a 4 off-season rebuilding process when multiple teams are getting into the playoffs in much less time this decade. I also find it hilarious that fans who are just enjoying the ride find themselves on message boards during the off-season. That's doesn't indicate someone's a "casual" fan. It likely means you're interested in the team and what they're doing. One would think that would also include a debate about how they're going to win as quickly as possible.

It took 2 off-seasons for McCoach to build his defense, which still doesn't get great pressure from the front 4 as his scheme needs. And that's the easier side of the ball to build. So it's beyond me how anyone thinks they'll build a competent offense in one off-season. Sure, there's Allen and hopefully a motivated Dawkins, but no one else on that side of the ball is proven. People love to reference the Bears' rebuild, but their OL was largely built heading into year 2 of Trubisky. They added pass catchers and had some youth at RB. Buffalo has perhaps 2 decent OL starters and little at the skill positions.

Eball beat you to that refrain already. When all else fails and criticism is warranted, just say the person isn't happy. That'll silence the criticism!

It's setting in for a lot of people that, even with all that cap room and their usual complement of higher picks, they're not going to suddenly go from 6 to 11 wins this season. And, that building an offense in one off-season isn't realistic. I'm interested to see what ownership thinks if this team is .500 next year and misses the playoffs. Homers can sit here and bang the patience drum as they have for a decade plus, but ownership isn't so kind. I doubt the Pegula's listened gleefully as McBeane told them after 2017 that it was a 4 year rebuild.

Pushing out expectations is a hallmark of this board. It's a defensive mechanism for those fans who aren't sure their team is good, but still want to wave the pom-poms. Right now they have half a team built after 2 off-seasons spent rebuilding. They've largely rid themselves of the previous regimes' players and it's to the point that expectations are ramping up...which means now we have this discussion of "2020." Every fan should expect that this team is in the playoffs in 2019, perhaps as a division winner.

Yes, several good moves will eventually make a good roster. I would agree the TT trade was a solid move and more than I expected Beane would get for someone they couldn't really afford either. The jury is out though on this regime. They are better than previous OBD incarnations, but the NFL is more competitive than ever and way more than during the DJ years. As for Walsh and the 49ers, that was well before UFA. And Walsh was a supreme talent evaluator well ahead of his peers. I hesitate making comparisons to before the year 2000 when it comes to rebuilding with the game being so different.

Do you think Brandon Beane had anything to do with the trade during the 2017 draft when Buffalo moved in front of Carolina to take Dion Dawkins, who was high on the Panthers' board? Coincidence? After all, Beane wasn't "officially" in Buffalo at that point. Beane and McCoach are linked together to make decisions on personnel. There is no one player acquired or sent packing without both agreeing and that's how they've want it. McBeane's first combined foray into UFA hasn't proven to be spectacular. The 2018 draft is TBD.

You didn't? I'm sorry.

When were Darby and Watkins traded? Which off-season was that? But, for arguments' sake, let's look at where the Bills went from year 1 of Beane to year 2. They deliberately took a step back to clean up their cap and went from 9 wins to 6. You realize that right now their offense is among the league's worst? Their top 2 RBs hit 31 in a few months. They have no more than 3 proven OL on the roster. Their TEs consist of a journeyman and former UDFA with 22 career catches. The WRs? A UDFA with 6 good NFL games and a WR who struggles to separate and make catches. I'd "fact-check" your posts first.

Not horrible, but certainly nothing to write home about either. He's the same guy who handed Vontae Davis a decent size deal to ostensibly start. Trent Murphy looks questionable. Star at 50M...meh. The real good signings happened before he was GM: Hyde and Poyer were when McCoach was on his own. When they start winning division titles and/or playoff games, then they've proven their plan has worked. Until that point, "the process" is talk. At the minimum, they aggressively sought to draft a long term option at QB who has shown some good signs. That's more than previous regimes from 2006-2017 really mustered. I've come to believe many fans measure success now not on wins, but having national sports media respect and on moves made in the off-season. Excellence has eluded this franchise for so long that expectations have been permanently lowered. And, in the absence of on-field success, many fans revert to hoping to just being liked. As in, sports writer X said we're good at this or, this NFL guy likes our pick or, this outlet says our UFA signing is great. It's basically redefining success to fit an unsuccessful franchise.

Except Beane's not graded on how well he does on individual trades, even though everyone wants to declare victory immediately on moves these days. Beane is graded on building a roster, and through 2 off-seasons he and McCoach have a far from finished product ready to compete and win championships. You can take your individual trade victories, but over the long haul it doesn't matter.

Long's contract isn't huge, but it's not depth either. I would expect he could play RG in that scheme. I'd guess then that you lose a lot of money. If this team is serious about having a solid offense, they'd consider moving Dawkins to LG and drafting a LT. I've never subscribed to the theory that a LT's drop in play is as directly related to a LG next to him as some make it out to be. And, the Juan Castillo effect of going easy on the OL is over.

I'm glad they learned as well Dave, but for guys who've worked in the NFL pushing 40 years combined I don't think it's a stretch to expect them to show some foresight here. Entering the season with Peterman and Josh Allen was inexcusable. Sure, it's water under the bridge now, but in a game that's long established you need options at QB unless you've got a franchise type, I expected more. I agree they got the QB thing down, but a month from today I expect much more in terms of building that offense.

IMO, that the worst loss since the MCM given the opponent, audience, being a plus 5 in turnovers (with 2 defensive scores!) and a getting KO return for a TD. Oh, and Wade was the opposing HC. The end to that game was the most systematic coaching break-down I've ever seen. Lose an onside kick, Buffalo's defense then allows Crayton to catch a pass at the sideline when Dallas had no timeouts, see Folk miss the FG, but Buffalo call a TO...setting up another kick from 53 which was good to give Dallas the 25-24 win. I will never forget that game. For the obvious and being in the BN after the game.

Every year the off-season gets longer. It would be nice to make the playoffs just so fewer posters can create threads like this.

The off-season: Where reality takes a back seat to fan-hood. He can play based on what exactly? That he beat up on lower-end talent in the CFL? That he once played in the SEC? Plenty of types in both leagues never translate into the pro game. Maybe he's good but the likelihood is he is a camp cut. That team with a bunch of holes had been 7-9 the previous season when McCoach and later Beane came aboard. The cap situation obviously wasn't the best, but jettisoning all that salary wasn't required either. They chose to do a complete rebuild. Yet, in 2 off-seasons, they chose to use 2 first round picks on defensive players and signed 5 more UFAs to decent contracts. In 2 years on offense, aside from getting Allen, they've acquired practically nothing other than Dawkins. Many of their acquisitions (Tolbert, Ducasse, Bodine, Newhouse, DiMarco, Ivory) have been bargain bin types or don't contribute much. They have nothing on offense because they chose to build their defense first. It's why, contrary to a lot of fans' opinions, this will be a 4 year rebuild.

I've often thought about the desire to believe in conspiracy theories and how psychologically appealing they are. This thread reinforces that people will believe almost anything supported with a shred of truth if it aligns with what they want reality to be.

This a heavy dose of sophistry here and...you've completely missed the point. I'm talking specifically about rounds 4-7 and how many are starting NFL players. The Bills have a handful (that's less than 5) from 2001-2015 with a few who went to other teams. And that's out of about 85 picks over those years. I love when people talk about rookies or second year players being good after such a short time in the league. Reminds me of the 2006 Marv/DJ draft people were giddy about. By 2011, only Kyle Williams remained on the team.

The number of players from rounds 4-7 who have decent NFL careers, as in, 5 or more seasons starting or as significant contributors is not very high. In Buffalo, from 2001-2015 there isn't much aside from Terrence McGee, Kyle Williams, Stevie Johnson, and Nigel Bradham out of 85 picks. Some of that I put on the personnel people, but it's also reality in the NFL. Those picks are nice on paper but finding starting material is unlikely.

All the talk about being the youngest HC in the NFL, his photographic memory, innovative concepts, et al...you can throw it out the window. I think McVay went with 11 personnel because he knew NE was stronger against that set and figured he could out-do Belichick. It makes little sense, but then again HC's get stupid sometimes going up against Belichick.

The league wasn't hurting when Green Bay won 5 titles in the 60s, Pittsburgh 4 in the 70s, San Fran 4 in the 80s, Dallas 3 in the 90s, and the Patriots since the millennium started. If anything, dynasties have helped advance the league's popularity given that yes, people hate those teams. This is you wanting something consistent with your opinion when it's not. I can't stand the Patriots, but their dominance is not hurting ratings. Winning means overcoming adversity, and in most cases, not blaming things you can't control for not succeeding. This mindset that there's always a scapegoat like officiating is such a modern incarnation. Los Angeles wasn't ready to win on Sunday and it showed. One call wouldn't have changed that.

It was Brady who went to Kraft and demanded Garoppolo be traded. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/pats-reportedly-offered-jimmy-g-18myear-belichick-furious-demoralized-after-trade/ Not a fan of QBs, even Tommy, affecting personnel decisions. Who does he think he is, LeBron?