BillsVet

No QB? Two QBs were on the board at 10 in 2017 when McD elected to trade down. Say no one knew those 2 would be very good to outstanding. Or, that we needed a CB (after letting Gilmore walk). Say whatever you want. The HC abdicated on a decision to find a QB to put behind TT in 2017 so that he could draft a defensive player. You don't delay drafting a QB. You get aggressive because it's the major difference between mediocrity and success. Their rebuild has failed if they go 8-8 in 2019. By comparison, their predecessors first 3 years (2013-15 Whaley/Marrone/Rex) had the same record (23-25) and we know how that story ended. If you're not improving, then it's regression. And after clearing all the dead cap unwanted players, drafting their franchise QB, investing significantly in the defense, and buying much of their offense I'd say 8-8 is failure for that reason. As for continuity, a lot of you don't understand how the corporate world works. If you don't get results quickly, you're toast. It's why senior executives have a limited shelf life if their departments aren't meeting objectives and the NFL is not much different. Three years is an eternity to get results, as evidenced by the multiple teams who've succeeded without following the McBeane self-imposed tear-down script.

Ownership sees the same things fans do. And I doubt the former would ignore the latter if results truly matter.

"Short timeframe?" Two off-seasons and 32 games into McBeane's tenure is not what I consider short, particularly when you're 15-17. It's almost necessary for most franchises to rebuild quickly because their fan base will not tolerate a 6-10 with little on offense in the second year. For comparisons sake, here's 7 teams in recent years who far exceeded Buffalo's 15-17 start: KC: 2-14 in 2012, goes 31-17 from 2013-15 with 2 playoff appearances HOU: 2-14 in 2013, goes 27-21 from 2014-16 with 2 playoff appearances LAC: 5-11 in 2016, goes 21-11 in 2017-18 with 1 playoff appearance that saw them advance to AFC Championship PHI: 7-9 in 2015, goes 29-19 in 2016-18 with 2 playoff appearances including a SB win MIN: 5-10-1 in 2013, goes 26-22 first 3 seasons with 1 playoff appearances LAR: 4-12 in 2016, goes 24-8 first 2 seasons with 2 playoff appearances with a SB appearance SEA: 5-11 in 2009, goes 25-23 first 3 seasons with 2 playoff appearances and a SB in year 5 None of those teams decided to spend 2 seasons on a complete tear down. McBeane don't get credit for slow-walking a rebuild, but I can tell you their seat is warming if this team doesn't get off to a good start after that off-season and having so much trust from ownership.

So many reasons not to trade for Williams. First, is you invested a 2nd round pick in Dawkins to be, apparently, your LT. Pushing your drafted players down the (edit: depth) chart on team-friendly contracts in favor of a 10th year veteran getting paid big dollars is not a solid idea. And then there's compensation. People throw 3rd round picks around here like they're nothing. All for a guy who has a lot of mileage on him. Sometimes I think fans here think NFL teams are built like their fantasy roster. With random and out of left-field strategy.

Tre must be using this as a negotiating tactic in advance of contract extension talks after his season. Not sure how this works in his favor, but maybe Beane can highlight this when talks open up.

Talent trumps chemistry every time, although with a HC who is a strong leader and understands his people assembling multiple big talent players with egos can work. Let's wait and see if Freddie Kitchens has the ability to manage these egos before predicting they'll crash and burn. Ultimately, I think criticism of teams like Cleveland (at this point) is a sort of Bills fan inferiority complex. It's so predictable here over the years for some fans to try and drag down other teams because the Bills aren't exceptionally talented. They do have players with potential, but no All-Pro caliber and few Pro Bowl players yet. People hope young players like Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, and Tre will become that, but they're not proven. We're going to find out this year whether McBeane's roster (and it's theirs now) has the talent to win 10+ games and get to the playoffs. Because having lesser talented players who buy-in to the HC's culture isn't enough to do that.

The late 80s/early 90s Bills managed pretty well with several egos.

Let's be clear. In 2017, McDermott drafted: 1. A good zone CB after trading out of 10 with a major issue at QB and 2 on the board. Nice player for sure, but isn't better than the guy he replaced in Gilmore. 2. A WR who collects his stats when games are out of control and will compete with a UDFA to play behind two 2019 UFAs. Not better than Robert Woods and that's not changing. 3. A LT who took a step back in his second season. 4. A talented Will that has ended his first 2 seasons on the IR. It's not the foundational draft that some here talked about it being. Still, drafts can artificially look good when you've got 1-2 more high round picks. This reminds me of 2006 when people championed that draft early, but saw the careers of Whitner, McCargo, Youboty, and Ko Simpson either flat line or plateau into average. Long term, only Kyle Williams was an impact player. The 2017 class isn't a home run - at least not yet. If McCoach's seat starts getting warmer, the refusal to take a QB in '17 will take on a lot more focus.

We're going to find out this season whether the McBeane strategy to invest big draft resources in their defensive players will pan out. This is year 3 of McD and him building his defense and he can't afford guys like Edmunds not playing at anything less than a Pro Bowl level. Lotta hype and hope this time of year.

I guess that means the kids are taking over for the adults.

The lengths you'll go to excuse players who've not proven themselves is amazing. Writing off 2 off-seasons for Zay? If you're doing that, may as well do it for every player who undergoes off-season surgery. Morse, Beasley, and others have had procedures done that have impacted their prep for 2019. Can we apply the same perspective to them? Frankly, I don't care what ZJ did at Coastal Carolina. As a noted poster refers to him here, "Drop-Zone" Jones has a looooong way to go before securing even a supporting role on this team. A quick review of his 2018 output reveals ZJ accumulated much of his stats when games were out of hand. His 2 biggest games took place in blowout wins at NYJ and versus MIA. And worse, when Allen started to show some signs of his potential late in the season, Zay wasn't exactly his guy and that remained the case in the final 6 games of the season. Over those contests, ZJ was targeted 43 times by Allen and managed 19 receptions for 260 yards. For a guy late into his 2nd season that's not exactly what you look for in a 2nd round pick they traded up for. And, this season those short yardage catches ZJ's been making are going to start heading Beasley's way. The question is, where does ZJ fit in with Brown, Beasley, and Foster on this roster? I'm guessing if he doesn't show some significant improvement in camp he'll be finding himself 4th or 5th on the depth chart, particularly if Foster continues to excel.

Except no one in the NFL does a complete tear-down when it's not required. This reminds me of a Bum Phillips quote about Bear Bryant: "Bryant can take his'n and beat your'n, aand then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n." Yet, in Buffalo McD couldn't win long term without eliminating all the difficult personalities from OBD. Most fans don't get that taking 2 years to get ready to compete is a waste as evidenced by the fact that solid organizations simply don't do it. They take what they've got and make the most of it, using roster tweaks and changing the roster over time. No one blows it up and then sells the fan base on how necessary it was to shed so much salary so quickly. Let us "complainers" know when you're going to have a decent take. 43k+ posts and I can't remember the last good one.

Billfrom NYC is correct. My point was that the two senior leaders of football ops - McBeane - are the same ones here for all 3 seasons. In short, the dudes who make final decisions and have charted a course for this organization remain in power. The one subject that's impossible to convince people about, hence this 80+ page thread, is a criticism of strategic decision making. I see people talking throughout who simply do not understand that, absent result, McBeane's decisions will be scrutinized and "trust the process" isn't sufficient.

The same guys who brought forth the 2017 and 2018 seasons are here for 2019. They have a lot to prove in 2019 and have only increased expectations with the UFA spending spree. Even minus those acquisitions, you expect to see a playoff run in year 3 if not earlier. That said, I see plenty of fans pulling back on expectations because the thought of being wrong is not anything they can contemplate. Easier to predict 8-8 and get 10 wins that risk one's ego and predict 10-6 only to witness a 7-9.

That's the crux of what's being debated here (at least in some cases). McBeane have made enough less than stellar decisions to cause concern that their "process" isn't all it's been advertised to be. Plenty of people seem willing to forget the bad moves in 2017-18 because they spent big dollars on UFAs in 2019. For all the plaudits McCoach receives for defense, his offensive decision making is at best suspect. And both he and Beane will be even more under the gun if Allen doesn't improve tremendously in year 2. The jury's out on McBeane. By no means have they proven anything in Buffalo as a HC and GM. They need to make the playoffs in year 3 or it's been a waste of time.

Is this supposed to be a rebuttal of someone responding to you? Because if it is, I'm thinking you did not perform well in Debate Class. I don't think McD takes the job without extracting a guarantee from the Pegula's about unprecedented personnel authority. That they gave it to him with his track record is still surprising. To go from hiring Rex to two years later going to the other end of the Spectrum in McD is amazing. And yet, record-wise they were the same after 2 seasons. And, this revolving door that is "the process" will proceed through more iterations before the season is over.

This thread deserves another mention of the '86 SNL sketch with William Shatner talking to Trekkies. .

Making a push for a starting role...in June? Camp cannot start soon enough.

At which point did it become acceptable to demand people with contrarian opinions be banned from speaking? It's akin to a toddler throwing a fit when their parent(s) say no to their demand for a cookie. Then again, maybe these are just grown up toddlers demanding silence, but I don't know for sure.

Amazing to think that TBN let go or had resign on them Sullivan, Gleason, Vogl, DiCesare, and Graham within a couple weeks this time last year. I'm sure a few of those moves were prompted by a certain two teams' ownership not liking the coverage received concerning their underperforming clubs. To that point, their ownership had resulted in 1 playoff appearance over 10 full seasons. But in the warped world we live in, negative attention to teams that don't win is not permitted.

This idea of building a good culture to win is pure pablum. It’s happy-talk for coaches and source material for more articles, but makes fans feel good about the state of their favorite team. That said, writers don’t really have much to offer this time of year aside from glowing pieces about individual players and coaches. Not surprisingly, this is Sal's specialty and I’m not sure he has ever written a critical word about the team. I tend to ignore what he says given his pro-team mindset that conveniently skims over the poor moves and game results. I have no issue with Barkley as backup, and loved that he befriended WWII Prisoner of War Louis Zamperini. But what else would you expect him to say after inking a 2 year deal late last season? And contrary to Cappacio's article, Barkley has played regular season games for 3 teams: Buffalo, Chicago, and Philadelphia. It would be prudent of the Bills’ beat writer to better research his articles before posting them.

Agreed. McD should be graded not only on W-L, but also for personnel strategy over the 2017 and 2018 off-seasons. He's running the show on personnel more than any previous Bills HC and the focus on defense before offense in 2017-18 demonstrates that. I want to see whether McD adapts to the modern game or remains a HC who plays it safe on offense and tries to keep games close with strong defense. He's into the 3rd off-season of running his defense and is now doing it with his guys. The question is whether he gives the offense more freedom, particularly after the spending spree this past off-season. Because if it's going to be a run oriented offense with a pedestrian passing game I think the ceiling for such a team is probably 9-7. McD has a lot to prove.

Over the years it's been clear that players (other than QBs perhaps) shouldn't be fully evaluated until their 3rd season in the league. This principle extends to HCs and we're entering year 3 of McD. He and Beane have almost completely overhauled this roster out of the RR/Whaley years. They've spent significant cap dollars on both sides of the ball. The HC has his coordinators who are both carryovers from last season. The QB is in year 2 and the unquestioned starter heading into the season. We're going to find out A LOT about McD and whether or not he's capable of taking this team into the playoffs. Expectations are high for the roster, but higher for the HC. It's his show now.

It's clear they've improved at individual positions, although to which degree remains to be seen. Yet, to go from 6-10 to a 10-6 or 11-5 is a big leap in the NFL requires an entire team playing well. The question is, how much have they improved and are the offensive improvements going to facilitate Josh Allen taking a big step toward becoming a top NFL QB.

Or it could mean Rudolph is negotiating with the Vikings and isn't taking the Bills calls. Or, Buffalo doesn't want to spend on a guy who doesn't average 10 yards per reception. It could mean a lot of things. What I'm confident is, they're not confident in their TE starting or depth with Kroft out. What, is the strength and conditioning coach being given a requirement that he get another 50 pounds on his bench press and add another 20 in muscle by August?