BillsVet

I completely agree that K. Williams was a surprise, but I'm not going to bank on him stopping the run. The Bills DT's are not the sure thing people are making them out to be. As we get closer to the draft, it's looking like Amobi Okoye will be gone before we pick. I want nothing to do with Alan Branch and would rather see Willis should Okoye be gone. There are too many players who play decent their first season and fall completely off the map their second. I'm just not going to rely on K. Williams, McCargo and of course Anthony Hargrove to help us stop the run. We know what we've got in Tripplett (who needed his face on a milk carton) and D. Walker is a pass rushing force it appears. I'm not convinced of that rotation.

Grabbing a LB and RB with our first two picks makes perfect sense, but of course we're not GM's of the Buffalo Bills. That said, I think Shaw might be a sleeper. Now I'm not saying because he's a PSU LB that this guarantees success, but being from a program that produces LB's is something that could further his progression in the NFL. I'm all for DT's in the draft if Brown is in fact not a DE. If there's one position we're deep at, it's DE. I think David Ball has some excellent possession skills and might contribute as a #3 WR. It'd be nice to get a WR higher, but we've got more pressing needs.

McShay has his complete 7 round mock draft...he's got us going with the following: 1 (12) Patrick Willis LB Ole Miss 2 (43) Antonio Pittman RB Ohio St 3a(74) Tim Shaw LB Penn St 3b(92) Tarell Brown CB Texas 4 (111) Kareem Brown DE Miami 6 (184) Le'Ron McClain FB Alabama 7a (222) David Ball WR New Hampshire 7b (239) Anthony Pudewell TE Nevada I really like it. I really do, except for one little thing. Rather not have anyone affiliated with the "U." Aside from that, we address some needs and get some potentially strong performers. Then again, who knows. Thoughts?

In light of what King has said about the 07 draft being a group of about 8 elite players and then the next tier, I'm beginning to believe Buffalo remains at 12 and takes Okoye or Willis. Should neither be there, you might see another reach, but I doubt anyone is going to trade up to 12. I'm not saying offers are out of the question, but the likelihood that there's a player at 12 that won't be there at 18-24 is not as great this year. WR C. Johnson, DE G. Adams, QB Russell, RB Peterson, DT Okoye, FS Landry, OT J. Thomas, and DE J. Anderson seem to be the eight elite. After that it really is a crap-shoot to predict who goes. King may talk about coffee too much, be seems to have enough sources to remain credible.

Did you use the force to come up with that analysis?

I've read in multiple areas that perhaps Buffalo is positioning itself for the 2008 free agent class. We know Briggs isn't happy in Chicago and is probably playing out the season. Not sure as to else will be available, but you never know. Perhaps C to the C is just a one year phenomenon.

Dean you and I always seem to start out rough and then slowly come to agreement. Funny stuff. I think K. Williams was an excellent college player. He always plays with heart and a "high motor." But in the NFL that's not always enough. We'll see how both he and McCargo contribute next season. I'm just not convinced he can provide part of the solution at DT yet. Our run defense criticism seems to wane during the off-season, but during the regular season we weren't stopping anyone. How much upside Williams has is the question. Can he improve or is he the type that has maxed out his abilities? Marv is indeed rebuilding this team. He was left with a bill of goods that went 5-11 in 05 but ultimately had some talent. TD did leave him Losman, Evans, Peters, Schobel, Kelsay, Crowell, and others. He didn't start from scratch but did have some big decisions to make with NC, and this season whether or not to let WM, LFB, and TKO depart. The 2006 draft has to be one of the more polarizing events in team history. What's done is done...you and I can talk all we want but it's not going to make a difference. Whitner is on the team and most likely the starter for the forseeable future. Marv's signature will continue to be more predominant on this team. Whether or not he can build a winner with reduced financial means remains to be seen. Either way, he's working with a lot less than most GM's in that regard. He's probably got one of the hardest jobs in football-having to work for a penny-pinching owner and still deliver. I hope he can do it.

I believe Marv works more in concert with the other leaders they have in the front office...Overdorf, Modrak, Guy, and DJ than most GM's do with their front office types. To blame one individual is ridiculous for any decision because we simply don't know how they arrived at the Whitner and McCargo decisions. I'm willing to bet the decision was made by committee, much like C. Bennett was in 87. And I'm willing to bet DJ being the defense first type had a big hand in it. I'll go along with mid-term grades, they've had some 06 picks play considerable time, but I still believe they played because their options were so limited and not because those picks were better. The second season will tell so much in an NFL career. It's make or break in many instances. Not all careers, but most. McCargo is a huge question mark. He was beaten out by a 5th rounder for PT, so his play this season might indicate where he goes from here. If he's lackluster, well, the draft doesn't look as hot as what some make it out to be. If his injuries preclude him from playing, I'd say that they gambled with a 1st rounder and lost. At that point we can't call him a bust, but his play could change the fortunes of a defense that could not stop the run all season. We'll have to wait and see.

And for the record, I don't think Marv is an idiot. Anyone with an Ivy League education, Phi Beta Kappa, and his track record in the NFL would never be confused for unintelligent. He's an excellent and educated man who stands for good character, work ethic, and furthering one's intelligence. You simply cannot argue about that. However, we're talking football smarts here. There are a host of guys out there who understood how football works without Marv's sterling track record. Coaching and GM duties are significantly different, and with the salary cap almost world's apart that 1991. Marv's HOF coaching credentials don't necessarily translate into being a great GM. That's why I believe he inordinately relies on DJ, Modrak, Guy, and Overdorf. It's true Marv led this team to 4 Super Bowls...but that was 15 years ago. Football has changed a lot since he left the league and while he relies on people who have been in the league for the last few years, he's behind people like Polian, Pioli, Newsome, and others who haven't had a break in service. And if you're going to criticize me for not having proof about the 2006 draft because I don't have facts, I'll do the same when it involves talking about their decision making process behind doors at OBD. We simply don't know, both you and I.

Seriously...we've had this discussion before. Marv was a rookie GM last season. And he relied on the same guy (Modrak) who assisted your friend and pal Tommy Donahoe. The main difference was DJ was present. I'm sure the scouting department was similar in 06 as it was in 05. Most people have no problem lampooning another team's picks after one season, but at the same time can term our guys to be excellent selections? Why the double standard, because as we all know, you can't judge a pick until they've completed three seasons in the leauge. We can judge Jason Allen from MIA as a bust but rely on McCargo to be a difference maker at DT for Buffalo. Both have one year in the NFL under their belt, just that one plays for an arch-rival and another is our guy. I find it laughable you can grade the draft after one season. I'm going to hold out until at least after this year. To grade our draft is certainly nieve and wreaks of homer-itis. I want those guys we selected last season to play as well as the next guy, but grading them after one season (or in the case of McCargo and Youboty about 4 games) is premature. And by the way, the Earth isn't flat...Marv told me it's actually cylindrical. And the team certainly hasn't been turned around...we've got a long way to go before we're playoff worthy.

Why are there so many Marv/DJ apologists out there? Whitner's selection was a reach. And I still believe other NFL teams did an end run and faked Buffalo out on draft day. By feigning interest in Whitner, they got Buffalo to take a guy who wasn't going before 15. We've said it time and time before...your team gets noticeably better with OL and DL as a strength. We chose a safety and JP was running for his life and our DLine couldn't stop Aunt Jemima from running through it. Safeties may no longer be a dime a dozen...but priorities dictate you draft guys on the LOS first. Maybe Buffalo intends on having Whitner start at SLB this season. The fact remains, we paid more, literally and figuratively for a guy who wasn't a top-10 selection. Besides, having a high draft pick isn't what it used to be. These guys are going to get a large paycheck without having played a down. 1st round picks are a gamble in many instances, and paying that sort of money to someone without NFL experience is not as ideal in 2007 like it was in 1987. They're a huge investment and the reason why I haven't noticed anyone trade into the top-10 in a while.

In a given NFL draft, there are blue chippers and then the other guys. This year it seems like there are about 8 blue chippers and then there are the other less heralded guys. C. Johnson, Russell, Thomas, Gaines Adams, Peterson, Landry, and perhaps Levi Brown and Quinn, are the blue chip guys. Ginn probably falls right after them. The #12 pick is almost no-man's land. Perhaps a team is looking at Ginn to be a deep threat for a woeful passing game. And maybe they're concerned he's going to get away if they don't get to the 12th pick. It's hypothetic, but there are only about 8 guys who are the marquee talent. The others may offer some excellent players, but they're not as obvious. Besides, Ginn has probably the best speed in the draft. Everyone knows he's going to heal a little more and be able to run his 4.32 40s again.

Each team has their own needs. I'm guessing that someone might want a player at 12 the Bills don't want. Like the most overrated WR in the draft, Ted Ginn. If he's available, and someone calls Buffalo for their pick, I say trade down if Okoye and Willis are gone. Because I'd rather have another second than take a guy that isn't a fit for the team.

I don't think the Bills are in the market to give up picks. With a host of needs, specifically LB, RB, CB, DT, and to a lesser extent WR, and TE, the Bills cannot afford to give up picks. I realize they may have one player on their radar like last season, but flexibility is the key to this draft. If Willis isn't there, well, who's the next best option? If anything, I can see them moving down to add 2nds and 3rds. I'd be happy with Amobi Okoye and Patrick Willis. Both high-character, intelligent, and physically excellent players. If they're gone, the best thing in my mind is to trade down, unless they plan on drafting another DB. Accumulating picks isn't a bad strategy because it provides flexibility. Of course, if there's a guy there that they want and is available, then make the pick.

Never did I undervalue the ST game. We have enjoyed a productive ST group under April, though despite this marquee ST group, we've continued to miss the playoffs. ST is important, but defense and offense take priority. Also, I'm not equating sheer speed with being able to play ST. There's more to that obviously. But I think we're making it out to be more than what it is. Kick and punt coverage aren't things that take a Ph.D to master. Now, I realize Stamer was hurt late in the season and they may have necessitated Youboty as a ST late in the season. However, if you've got a good CB, then he's going to play. Youboty did not play, ST or not. This thread discussed Youboty's being ready to go. I personally think we need to see a lot more from him before we can make that assessment. Here's a guy who could not crack the lineup, and it's alarming to see what we've got for depth at CB. Thomas has never started in the NFL, Greer is a backup caliber CB, and McGee was burned often last season. (against MIN and DET no less) CB is a huge question mark...and Youboty isn't the answer, at least not right now.

So he didn't dress because of ST reasons? That's our logic? Many "experts" pegged Youboty as a first, if not second rounder last season. There was a family tragedy and I completely understand his absence in camp. But... how do you explain a guy with such high talent not getting on the field? I may be mistaken, but NFL teams can dress 45 players for a game. According to the Bills website, Youboty played on ST against Miami, Baltimore, and the NYJ. So I believe the coaches got him on the field in that regard. Why he was inactive for SD and TEN after dressing the first time against Houston is beyond me. I'm sure the coaches had their reasons, but all I'm trying to point out is this guy has nothing to show that he can be a reliable NFL CB. And since when should it be a challenge for a 3rd round pick to "break into" the ST lineup? We've got UDFA's and other late round picks that make it onto the ST unit. Stamer, Haggan, heck even Peters a few seasons ago. It should not be hard for someone like Youboty to play ST with his speed as a CB. The fact is, if Youboty had enough talent to play last season he would have. They kept him off the field until November because he couldn't play ST? Nice try.

I still think the trust Marv has in DJ will lead us to pick defense in the first round. After last season when we went defense with 6 of our 9 picks, I think DJ would rather have a strong defense and a weak offense than an average defense and offense. DJ didn't have high scoring teams in Chicago, and I don't think he's focused on doing the same here.

There's only one problem with trying to build a dominating team year in and year out. The salary cap seems to involve itself at the most inopportune moment. Few teams who continually draft well and are effective in free agency remain excellent for a lengthy period. At some point, coaching and savvy front offices have to make the difference. You look at what Philly, NE, and Indy have done. They've all jettisoned name players when their demands get high and/or their abilities drop. In their sted, they've acquired lesser names who fit the team concept and included some difference-makers at specific positions (DE, OT, QB, perhaps CB and RB) I'm not convinced the Bills front office can play hardball and retain the talented players that may be drafted. Marv has spoken about retaining our own picks and not placing too much emphasis in FA. That's not a knock on them for letting Clements go...he was bound to leave anyway. Buffalo featuring a cash to the cap fiscal policy, does not lend itself to retaining your draft picks who become stars during their first contract. You want to sign them before they hit star-level, but if not, in our market they're gone. One thing I will say about being 10-6 versus 12-4: both records will generally get you into the playoffs. And once you're there, it's a whole new season. Let's concentrate on getting to the playoffs ASAP and worry about being dominating the regular season later.

I guess it'd be safe to say we won't be drafting CB in 2007. My concern with Youboty is he's essentially a rookie. Sure, he practiced and played CB in one game, but he's new and untested. I know the Bills will only play the best player and they've got to earn it. But going into the season with K. Thomas, Jabari Greer, Youboty, McGee and Bassey as the only CB's on the roster makes my head hurt. That's not a position I feel very comfortable with. There were opportunities to acquire veteran talent that can play in this leauge and we chose to stay with what we've got. That said, Youboty needs to play well. We can't just hope he plays well. Our CB depth is so poor there aren't really any options.

Again, we're hoping and wishing this guy is worthy of the praise we've been heaping upon ourselves and the organization for selecting him and getting a supposed 3rd round bargain. I realize he lost time due to his mother's death in 06, but that occurred in the summer. He wasn't even dressing during the regular season, let alone playing. I believe his only game action at CB was against the Jets. That's just not enough to know if he'll be an effective NFL CB. I don't care if people have opinions, but back them up with something. We don't know if this guy is going to be a reliable NFL starter, same as whether or not Buffalo will be competitive this season. There's too much that can happen between now and opening day.

That's why Wolfe was so dangerous against TCU. Taking one college game out of context is not emblematic of a player's potential in the NFL. I just did that with one game and he ran for 28 yards on 20 carries. So which one game defines his abilities? Wolfe is an undersized RB that I'm thinking most teams would feature as a 3rd down back or perhaps a KR/ST type player. If he was so good, he'd be mentioned up there with the Peterson's, Lynch, Irons', Pittman's, et al. A small college undersized prospect. No more, no less.

Am I sensing a trend here? There's always going to be obnoxious jerks like Jeremy Green. But I've read and seen features from SI, ESPN, numerous websites and NFL.com that we've over-judged our talent and left positions too thin to simply replace in the draft. And not to mention we're the only team in the league that broadcasts how they will limit their financial resources to a level below what the NFL mandates. I'm not saying we need to pay huge bonuses, but adding some veteran talent for at a minimum depth seems advantageous. One voice or article means little. But many similar opinions get you thinking after awhile.

I suppose that's why Whitner had as many down the field tackles...we were deep off the LOS working so hard to prevent the pass and not getting a push with the DL. I realize the Cover-2, by its nature will yield rushing yards. But it's a bend, don't break defense against the run. You're hoping to force the team to throw into that zone. We simply didn't have the horses up front to clog the running lanes. I'm concerned that this season we'll be weak with both the run and pass defense. Whitner isn't going to make as big an impact on run defense, something I'm sure the front office knew before next season. Admit that Buffalo minimized their risk with the Whitner selection because they flinched at the far-flung notion he'd be selected before they could swing a deal. Face it, the front office was out-done. They fell for the ploy. But they didn't make things better by panicking again when word spread that NYG was looking at McCargo.

So we forget Sean Taylor when he's not able to fit into our argument? Because I know he made the difference for the Skins in 06. And how did Polamalu do in 06? Pittsburgh didn't make the postseason. All I'm doing with this comparison is illustrating the absurdity of your argument with your subjective rationale. It's a non-sequitur. There's no doubt safeties are valuable, but just not as much as you might think, and certainly are not typically top-10 selections. You can find excellent safeties if you do your homework. After all, we got Ko Simpson in the fourth. Tell me, what would you rather have: a pass rush or a pass defense? There's a significant difference. The former makes the latter look better while the a pass defense cannot survive without a pass rush. We didn't get picked on through the air last season, ergo Whitner and Simpson weren't challenged as much. The highest pass yards allowed happened when Favre managed to throw for 287, albeit with a couple of picks. I personally believe the safeties both looked better in 06 because the gameplan necessitated they play so far off the LOS as a risk management function.

Are you trying to compare the Bills draft to the Steelers draft from 1969 and 70? I mean, Pittsburgh ended up with Joe Green, LC Greenwood, Bradshaw, and Blount those two drafts. Four HOF's in 2 years! And then in 74 they picked up Ham, Lambert, Webster, Stallworth, and Swann! I really can't believe you're comparing the Bills circa 2006 with the Steelers in the 1970s. That was a completely different era. No salary cap, teams didn't scout as hard or scrutinize players and less teams in the league to draft. Like it or not, safeties aren't playing a position that can dominate a game. DE's, OT's, and QB's can. Just because Marv and his entourage made this pick doesn't make it right. They should be open to criticism. It sounds like some fans aren't thinking and just believing what they're told or bristling when the mainstream "experts" say something was wrong. We're reacting emotionally because Whitner was "our" pick and not looking at this without seeing the whole playing field. We spent a #8 on a safety, failed to trade down, then used a 2nd and 3rd for a broken DT. Well, at least only 2 of the last three seasons he's played. That's not strategically using our limited resources to address all the holes we had. You've got to employ the right amount of resources to your team, and Buffalo chose a safety as their top pick. They needed help at DT, OL, and WR. Yet we chose the back of our defense to fortify. How many times has it been said on this board that winning football games begins at the LOS. We chose a player who played 15-20 yards from it. You can stop the pass by getting a pass rush that puts the QB under pressure and/or on his back before he makes the throw.