BillsVet

I think it's fair that some fans see Peters as having let the team down last season by skipping all the camps. His presence in 08 wasn't nearly what it was in 07 because he didn't stay in game shape. At the same time, these fans assume Peters is washed up, because his 08 campaign was so poor, and therefore a trade is more easily digested. Still, it is perfectly said by Graham. There's no question the Bills OL is worse without him than with him. After all, this one trade forces the team to move their RT to LT, a RG to RT, and replace the RG with another player. By the time he was shipped to Philadelphia, veteran options from outside the organization were nil. Many football analysts are saying Buffalo's OL is among the worst in the league, given the mix of rookies and position changes. That's not to say they can be good however. It should also be pointed out that his trade produces a big cost savings to the team, which cannot be understated.

It isn't that simple. Guys like Tim Graham cover four teams, attend enough practices and follow those teams closely enough to have a solid take on their strengths and weaknesses. It's a hallmark of this board to marginalize writers whenever they aren't as optimistic as some on this board. I'll take Graham's, John Wawrow's, and Chuck Pollock's opinion more seriously than a vast majority of those on this board. They wouldn't have their positions if they didn't know something about this team and league. The Bills have questions marks on the OL, rushing the passer, and most importantly, their entire coaching staff (not to mention a front office minus proven talent evaluators). Just because many Bills fans are optimistic doesn't mean this extends to the media.

Top 10 NFL picks aren't supposed to be moved around to playing another position in their third season. Whitner seems like a DB who has no solid position but is adequate at playing SS, FS, and nickel CB. Yes he's versatile, but taking another safety high says a lot about DW. Last year he was exposed as being too small to handle playing near the LOS. The natural move is to make him a FS, which is Byrd's position. He is most certainly not a bust, but he hasn't lived up to expectations either.

I'm just tired of losing. And when you look south into PA and see a team that is winning, it's even worse. Bills fans deserve better, and the hype won't be enough forever. I'm not impressed with how they handle personnel, and it smacks of amateurish methods to me. I'll agree to disagree on the Peters situation, but it's over and Buffalo ain't getting him back. When people lower expectations just because the team hasn't won consistently since the 90s, it bothers me. Small market teams are winning, but they have proven front offices which can operate without the financial resources of a Dallas, Washington, or New York team. It just takes people who are ahead of the curve. If you're a fan and aren't upset, so be it. I can't agree with being a fan and not demanding some form of success. All I've looked for is a playoff team, not necessarily one that advances deep into the post-season. IMO, that's reasonable after a decade of futility.

Any team can address a position of need, but finding the right personnel is not this franchise's strong suit. They answer personnel issues with strange ways. It's not merely addressing a problem, it's doing it with the right solution. Buffalo had one above average OL, and that was Peters. The others were average to below average, and that was after three years of rebuilding. So they deal their top OL for a low first, move some guys around, get two highly touted rookies, and sign an unproven UFA. So yes, they addressed parts of the OL. We'll see if they did the right thing. My whole point has been that Buffalo does not have proven talent evaluators to find top players. They swing and miss far too often in UFA and the draft. For the latter, they've spent far too many picks on non-lineman. It took them four off-seasons to finally admit they'd screwed up on the OL and DL, outside of Stroud. Guess I'm being negative again, but hope ain't enough for me. If the team doesn't get into the playoffs this season, the entire organization should be gutted. Coach, GM, Pro Personnel, Amateur Scouting, Overdorf, everyone.

Why should we expect to see results on the OL? Buffalo attempted the quick fix to build the OL through UFA (06-07) and it didn't work. They spent exactly zero picks on day one on OL. Now, they've essentially given up a huge contract in Peters for a first round pick with Wood. I really like Eric Wood, but finding quality starting guards is much easier than getting a top LT. Someone will say Peters stunk in 08, and while he didn't have his finest season, he won't fall off the table like some of the haters think. He was a tremendous run blocker, and Walker's strength isn't his mobility because he's about 30 pounds overweight. All in all, it is preposterous to believe changing both the tackle spots, which happen to be the two most difficult OL positions, while integrating a former backup and two rookie guards into the starting lineup is wishing upon a star.

It's ironic that DJ went to his first SB in his fifth full season as a HC in the NFL. And that Jeff Fisher didn't win the AFC in his fifth season, advance to the SB, and come with mere yards of winning it just like DJ. The irony!

I don't know why I remember it, but after the Philadelphia game to conclude the 07 season, Jauron said: "Offensively we did a pretty good job of not turning (the ball) over. I think the fact that we didn't turn the ball over today at all, and didn't have very many penalties in that football game, kept us in the game. Obviously, the fact that we don't score, we don't get it in the endzone, is the difference in the football game. These were his opening comments after a 17-9 loss in which the team didn't seem to do anything offensively. I honestly think people miss the point re: DJ and his vanilla statements. He, in a jaded way, takes pleasure from saying nothing to the media and admitting as little fault as he does. If he spent as much time gameplanning as he did wording his worthless statements to the press. EDIT: Jauron post-Philadelphia 07 comments

How many GP does Walker have at LT over Gandy? And AZ is a unique example, given their drafting of OT Levi Brown 5th overall in 2007 to play RT for the left handed Leinart. The Cards didn't believe Warner would be their starter, and for development's sake, didn't attempt to move Brown to LT from RT. It's clear now that Warner isn't going anywhere soon. And AZ has serious cap issues, considering they franchised Karlos Dansby, signed Warner to a lucrative 2 year deal, and Anquan Boldin wants a new deal. Throw in that they've got 10M given to Fitzgerald, knew Adrian Wilson needed a new deal (since re-signed) and they just didn't have the room to add another large contract. All of those players are NFL stars, and AZ has quite the challenge to keep them all. They weren't in the market to trade for nor sign Peters. They preferred to keep their own guys, at least for 2009 and I think it's reasonable to see that they preferred to sit tight. It doesn't mean Peters isn't a fine player.

This is revisionist history. Only in 04 did Buffalo narrowly miss the playoffs, and they controlled their own destiny. As in the final week of the season they had a chance to make the post-season. 2001 3-13 Not even close 2002 8-8 (division winner 9-7, wild-cards 9-7 and 10-6) Close 2003 6-10 (division winner 14-2, wild cards 12-4 and 10-6) Not close 2005 5-11 (division winner 10-6, wild cards 11-5 and 10-6) Not close 2006 7-9 (division winner 12-4, wild cards 10-6 and 9-7) Not close 2007 7-9 (division winner 16-0, wild cards 11-5 and 10-6) Not close 2008 7-9 (Division winner 11-5, wild cards 12-4 and 11-5) Not close And if Buffalo is lacking in coaching, shouldn't it stand to reason that the coach be replaced for not even (by these standards admittedly) be replaced for failing to get close to a post-season berth? There I go being negative again. Personally, close losses are the same as blowouts: Big L's. And L's, no matter the score difference, hurt when it comes to the end of the season.

It would seem the best way to build and get competitive is to build the OL and DL first before anything else. Of course, having at least a game manager type QB is imperative first But look for a moment at how first round picks were used in MIA and NE, not to mention PIT and BAL. These teams find difference makers on the lines and worry about the speciality positions later. At this point, Buffalo's strengths lie within the WR corps, RB's, and CB's. IMO, this is a recipe not suited for competing in the AFCE. MIA dedicated a bunch of resources toward it's OL and DL in 08. They used a first on an OT (Long) signed G Justin Smiley, re-signed OT Vernon Carey, signed Jake Grove in UFA, and drafted G Donald Thomas. On defense, they picked up their complement of 3-4 DEs in Kendall Langford and Philip Merling. All of these acquisitions took place in only two off-seasons. Contrast this with Buffalo, who spent picks on mostly skill positions in 06-07. Their UFA signings, particularly on the OL, were poor upon beginning the rebuilding effort those seasons. Yes, Buffalo selected McCargo, but he was the only pick made on either line in the first two rounds from 06 through 08. This attention to the lines is insufficient and a reason they've tried multiple times in four off-seasons to build an OL and DL. I have a feeling MIA won't be re-shaping their OL and DL all that much in the next 2-3 seasons.

This is something I've pointed out ad nauseam. But we're not talking about 1970-2000. We're talking about the 21st century, 2001-present day. Because many of the same people running the organization from 01 forward are still here. Let's turn this around, shall we? If you don't care about the results on the field, why do you follow the team? Because if results are unimportant, there is absolutely no reason to follow professional sports. And I'm not referring to demanding a title every year, which is completely unrealistic. I'm talking about seeing something, as in a playoff appearance, every now and then.

Of course no one has any idea how the Bills will do, but it's safe to say there are indications that a team will be good and those which will not be. If you're a fan of the Patsies, it's probably safe to say you expect your team to be a perennial playoff team. Ditto for NYG, PIT, SD, IND, and a few others. All of those teams were built by drafting well and using UFA effectively. And then there are clubs like TB, DET, OAK, CLE among others who are rebuilding or marginal as is. I would count Buffalo among that team, given their strength is at the specialty positions: WR, RB, and CB. You cannot say they're strong at OL and DL, like most dominant teams are. I, along with many others who visit this board, am certainly permitted to remain a fan and criticize an organization which has delivered so very little this decade. If you can't understand that hope isn't enough for fans who demand results amid 9 seasons of wilderness, well, keep on hoping. This self-righteousness which permeates your argument remains shallow and misses the entire point. Rather, there are fans who, at some point, demand accountability after repeated failures on the field and in management. In your mind, complaining is bothersome and reality (the team's failures) should not be highlighted because the mere "hope" of success is possible. I certainly don't use the Bills to leave reality, as some do. Now, I can't wait to get the old, "if you aren't optimistic, don't follow the team" post. And for the record, I don't think the world is a terrible place. It's a wonderful place, and I won't be swayed by what the MSM tells me on a daily basis.

I'll tell you why I'm pessimistic about this franchise: 0 for 9 in making the playoffs. The OL is a microcosm for this team: make changes, cut costs, get some rookies and pronounce it better. When it doesn't work, spin why it didn't work and add some cosmetic changes for the next season. Many of the same people who advocated signing Dockery, Fowler, Reyes, etc, still remain. What about their track record suggests the current moves will work? If you're confident that Modrak and Guy (the principal personnel advisors to Brandon) somehow hit multiple homers this off-season, well, I don't know why. Call me a doubting Thomas, but I need to see it on the field before I'll stump for the powers that be at OBD.

It's crazy to think that one off-season will get three new starters and two guys changing positions to gel. Repeatedly remaking OL's is not a proven method of getting a better OL. The best ones in the league, like NYG and TEN needed time to get on the same page. It is entirely possible that the rookies and Hangartner become solid players. But it may be a longer process (as in an entire season) before they're all on the same page as a cohesive unit.

Remember that first statement this season. BTW, Ask Boomer Esiason how must he loved Anthony Munoz. Ditto for Joe Montana and Steve Wallace. Eli Manning and Dave Diehl. McNabb for Tra Thomas all those years. Hasselbeck for Walter Jones. Marino for Richmond Webb. If LT wasn't an especially important position, it's ironic that 1/4 of NFL teams drafted guys in the first round to play the position. In the past two years, Miami, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Denver, Cincinnati, Atlanta, Chicago and Houston have selected guys to play LT for them. It is an extremely important position. And I believe we'll see Walker getting blocking help from a TE frequently this year. I'm glad you have so much confidence in an OL where there will be five new starters at their respective positions, including two rookies. It's not a slam dunk that it's better than 08, 07, or even 06. They'll need to get up to speed really fast.

Certainly Brandon isn't on a short leash, but if he's going to be the GM he should have the powers that the position have. I'd agree on DJ, who out of the "inner-circle" of RW, Littman, Brandon, and Modrak, reportedly only received 2 votes to keep. The best organizations have a GM with strong powers. There are two exceptions, PHI and NE, who have strong HC's with a solid track record of finding and developing talent. The individual serving upstairs (Floyd Reese in NE and Tom Heckert in PHI) are also very strong. It's ironic that so many teams make changes and Buffalo continues with the status quo. I'm not even sure a bad season would change much more than the HC. And even that's not certain.

Each of these teams has very different situations, although the common denominator is missing the playoffs. For SEA and GB, they are one year removed from being playoff teams, as is JAC. The other nine have had issues for some time now, as evidenced by 7 of those teams making major management changes. 1. Detroit-fired COO/GM Matt Millen and HC Rod Marinelli. Replaced with Martin Mayhew and Jim Schwartz. 2. St. Louis-new GM in Billy Devaney and hired Steve Spagnuolo as HC to replace Jim Haslett who replaced Scott Linehan. 3. Kansas City-new GM in Scott Pioli and HC with Todd Haley. Replaced Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards. 4. Seattle-playoffs in 07, ravaged by injury in 08. Holmgren retired and replaced with Jim Mora Jr. 5. originally Cleveland-fired HC Romeo Crennel and GM Phil Savage. Replaced with Eric Mangini and George Kokinis 6. Cincinnati-Owner Mike Brown acts as GM. No changes. 7. Oakland-Owner Al Davis acts as GM. Retained Tom Cable as HC. 8. Jacksonville-fired James "Shack" Harris as VP of Pro Personnel. Replaced with Gene Smith 9. Green Bay-no changes. Ted Thompson remains as GM and Mike McCarthy as HC. NFC Title game participants in 07. 10. San Fran-fired HC Mike Nolan during season and replaced with Mike Singletary. 11. Buffalo-no changes 12. Denver-fired HC/quasi-GM Mike Shanahan and replaced with Josh McDaniels. Also named Brian Xanders GM. Cincinnati and Oakland are run by their owners, and thus operate on different wavelengths. It could be argued Buffalo is closer to these franchises in management and on-field results. The Bills have really hitched their wagon to Brandon as GM. But if Buffalo falters, and it's super early (June!) it is time to look at finding a GM versed in personnel with a solid track record. It goes without saying the front office would need to be nuked and a new HC found. Again, there is a lot riding on this season, being that it's DJ's fourth as HC and Brandon's 2nd as GM.

You're not supposed to disagree with the OP. The post was made to declare that turnovers are the reason and that nothing else affected this team's success in 08. Of course, this argument was blown out of the water earlier and there's much more to team success than turnovers difference. As big an issue as that is, it's not the only one. This is a black and white post which doesn't factor in the gray areas you suggested.

Does it matter who he had on offense? This is a guy who helped build one of the most dominating defenses since the NFL merger. That 2000 defense was excellent, allowing someone like Trent Dilfer to QB Baltimore and win a SB. Last season the team wasn't stellar offensively, although they featured a rookie QB and rookie HC yet still had enough on O to get into the playoffs. Newsome knows what he's doing. Just like Belichick, Pioli, Jerry Reese, AJ Smith, Parcells, Kevin Colbert, Polian, Reid/Heckert, Dimitroff, and perhaps Rod Graves.

You would think an organization not named the Detroit Lions which is eyeing 10 years without a playoff appearance and 14 since a playoff win would receive more criticism. No one's asking for a SB win each season, but some demonstration of success. IMO, most fans would like a playoff appearance, preferably a home game. Bill Parcells and Tom Dimitroff did it in their first season with notoriously sad sack organizations. DJ/Marv/Brandon have had three seasons and done nothing. Unfortunately, having a team is more important to these casual uninformed fans. While many fans have the audacity to ask for success, many fans could care less about results.

Again: How does the 07 team with a harder schedule and more injuries have a TO difference of +9 while the 08 team facing a the 2nd easiest schedule in the NFL have a -8? It's not missed FGs, every team has that. It's not just individual players. We're talking about a net loss of 17 from one year to the next with vastly different schedules. How quickly we forget these games. Blotting out of your memories of last season is key for you here. Rookie HC's with less than average rosters beat Buffalo three times last season: MIA 2x and SF 1x. Not to mention, they were badly outclassed by NE 2x. And who can forget the now fired Mangini beating Buffalo twice. If you want to cite examples where we almost won, cite those. Again, this is a thread initiated by casual uniformed fans who rationalize losing. It's made in order to rationalize that Buffalo is closer to success, yet the Bills who take the field in 09 will be predominantly players with less than or equal to 3 years of experience. The HC loses 57% of his games, and the GM didn't handle personnel before January 2008. There is more to the inferior play than just turnover differential here. It's an organization-wide issue in management and coaching which these casual uninformed fans who rationalize failure love to discredit.

Let me get this straight, and I'm going to illustrate absurdity by being absurd here. The 07 and 08 Bills recorded the same record with very different schedules. Their 2007 tilt was harder than the 2008 schedule. Turnover differential is cited as perhaps the one factor which made for the difference. This is a black and white argument which takes nothing but numbers into account. I would think Buffalo's 2007 +9 (and fourth in the AFC) would make for a better record. In 08, they had a much easier schedule and mustered only a -8. This makes absolutely no sense. How does a team with a harder record in 07 have a better TO ratio, while the 08 team had a worse ranking with a much easier schedule? There's more to this story than TO's.

In 2007, IIRC, Buffalo was tied fourth in the AFC in turnover differential and they finished 7-9. AFC Turnovers 2007 For the record, NE, SD, IND, and JAC all made the playoffs in 07. PIT at +3 and TEN, which finished +1 also made the playoffs. Admittedly, this is one season's worth of stats, but Buffalo was an anomaly during the 07 season in that they were top five in the conference and went sub .500.

They did indeed draft high quite often. As they were essentially rebuilding after the move from Cleveland, they hit with many of those top picks, most of all Ogden. Granted he was one of those "can't miss" prospects, but he also snagged Lewis later in the first of 1996. It's hard to envision that team winning the SB in 2000 without those two. Don't get me wrong, I hate the Ravens, but you've got to admire some of the things Newsome did in getting a title to Baltimore just their fifth season after moving from Cleveland. But trading 2 3rds and a 7th for McGahee really put Buffalo into a position heading into draft day 07. With only Shaud Williams on the roster, the Bills badly needed a RB, in addition to a LB among other things.