BillsVet

Tom, there have been numerous posters who talked incessantly about building from the lines out, hence criticism of the 06 draft. Unfortunately, it took the Bills 4 drafts to figure out you can't buy an OL nor have inferior pass rushers besides Schobel. When I look at the rounds 1 and 2 picks from 04-08, I see a lot of skill players and only 1 lineman selected: McCargo who is a bust. It's little wonder the DL and OL have suffered mightily for so many years. And the golden nugget they lucked into was traded for rookies in 2009. I'm hopeful Levitre and Wood will improve, but their tackles are absolutely dreadful.

You're correct that RW is that common denominator to all of this decade of disappointment and even a casual observer should know this. Beginning with Phillips firing, Butler/Smith leaving, Donahoe, and through to Levy/Brandon, RW's decision making has become even more suspect as he's aged. To think he thought TO would erase DJ's faulty game planning is sheer lunacy. Still, when he had a chance to start over, he chose to elevate Brandon, re-sign DJ, and then keep the HC when he finished 2-8. I won't believe this team is in it to win it until they find football people to make football decisions. If Dungy is right and the Bills are looking at Vick, they're not trying to win anymore but find gimmicks to sell tickets.

Is this team concerned with being good as much as they are with selling tickets? MV is under contract for another season, but Philly could dump him and wouldn't take a huge cap hit. I doubt many teams would want him given his track record.

After four seasons and two OL overhauls, DJ does not have a cogent plan to build an offense. It's no coincidence he didn't have a plan in Chicago where he used two extremely different OC's in Gary Crowton and John Shoop.

Obviously we like the guys we've got, and the guys before that we liked as well. I thought about making changes to the OL earlier in the off-season, and when you think about it, you have to do it. We have a lot to work to do protecting our QB.

Cowher will demand absolute personnel control if hired, in addition to a contract in excess of 6M per season. I don't see the Bills giving control to one man, nor paying that sort of salary. Cowher was backed up by some fine personnel executives in Pittsburgh, namely Kevin Colbert. At this point, it's not even a guarantee the team hires a legitimate personnel man for GM, let alone a HC. The owner's advanced age means he probably isn't going to spend big and hand out a long term contract. Still, Cowher would be an immense improvement. I'm just not sure he's the personnel guy people make him out to be.

All three of those guys were in their prime about 5-10 years ago, thus the pay structure is different. They all played outstanding football for a long time, but also didn't get the cold shoulder from their teams when it was time to get paid. Give me some links about the sacks allowed thing. And I'm sure there's something to refute your claims of how sacks allowed are calculated. Clady, Long, Baker, and Ogden were all first rounders. McNeill a mid second pick. And oh by the way, don't forget Ferguson (NYJ), Light (NE), Thomas (CLE), Roos (TEN), McKinnie (MIN), Brown (NO), et al who were first day picks that can play. Sense a trend here? Think any of those guys will get traded any time soon? Come back when you have some sources to back up your support for why it was necessary to trade Peters. And I want you to explain why you support so fervently an organization which has exactly one winning season this decade. Don't give me that "go follow another team" garbage either. Listening to you, the Bills have never or rarely are wrong. Hard to believe considering they're 63-89 this decade.

I'll play C. Biscuit for a moment here. What if the Bills hadn't gotten Wood with that pick? Would they be as bad? Probably, but what if the Bills didn't have Donte Whitner? They'd probably be just as bad too. The point is, among all of this is it's not individual players, aside from perhaps the play of this QB that affects the team. It's the management structure, from owner down to HC and assistants. Rosenhaus knew when TO went to Buffalo that the franchise was crappy, but his client had nowhere else to go. Frankly, agent and player had run out of options for the money they wanted, reluctantly agreeing to terms with a bottom of the basement franchise. Nothing changes in Buffalo until there is a competent GM, good HC, and everyone named Modrak, Guy, and Overdorf are fired. That and Brandon reverts back to being lead ticket salesman.

I hope this is correct. But how deeply will RW dig into those pockets to find new staff and fire the old ones. He'll never learn that paying personnel management types is the ticket to not having to waste money on players. If a new coach comes in, there will be a LOT of roster turnover. Because no coach is going to come here and accept being told what he can and can't do with the roster. The Bills will face reality this off-season when it comes to finding a coach, because they could end up like Washington did a few years ago: not having anyone willing to get into that mess and ruin his reputation. The deadskins ended up with Jim Zorn, who is not a HC by any means.

As normal, you leave several key issues out. And before rebutting your points, let me make one thing clear: Players own this league. Ergo, they generally get their way because ownership interested in winning will overpay for success. This is especially the case since the cap came into play 16+ years ago. Not saying it's right, but this is noteworthy. Your statistical backup is inherently flawed. As I said in another thread, Peters bashers go wherever they can get unproven numbers to validate their sentiment. This is apparent here. Not all sacks are easily credited to one man, although that's not to say he didn't yield some bad ones. Sacks can also be attributed to a QB holding onto the ball, passing late in blowouts, having inferior receivers, et al. 1) Peters' agent Eugene Parker had no out besides holding out. I do not agree with this, but it came on the heels of Russ Brandon echoing Wilson/Littman's stance that they would not renegotiate. Both sides assumed a hard stance, and both are equally at fault. 2) So Peters is no responsible for the other 4 guys not being good? Yes, you're talking about the since released Dockery, un-signed Fowler, Butler, and the since released Langston Walker. You're saying his presence alone should make all of them better? 3) College LT's don't see Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, and Dwight Freeney type DE's all that frequently. Even a guy coming up in the SEC won't see the caliber of pass rushers that any NFL LT will have. Few rookie LT's excel from the gate, especially 7th round project LT's with no game experience. As for trades, they don't take three years to evaluate. Ask the KC Chiefs who traded Jared Allen for picks. You don't trade Pro Bowl caliber QB's, LT's, or DE's in their prime for anything and expect to get better. Second, trading experienced veterans for draft picks will make your team younger and less effective at least temporarily. For a team that said they needed to make the playoffs, how is that making them better for 09? Answer: It isn't, but merely another out for management to say why they failed. After 9 seasons of bad football, the playoffs had to be their goal in 2009. And at this point, 7-1 or 8-0 is what it'll take to get there. Right now, I'm not sure if you don't care more about winning than defending this sad sack organization.

Welcome to TBD. The point you made is certainly valid and most NFL people know this, as evidenced by the multitude of franchises drafting LT's early. Unfortunately, many fans hate Peters so much that they cannot admit the LT position is the most difficult to play. And the reason is just as you stated: that LT's face the opponents best pass rusher each week. Few players in NFL history have been able to neutralize DE's, and those that are get paid. Unless of course it's Buffalo.

Put the beer down and stop starting mindless threads. Name a freakin player available that no one has signed 9 weeks into the regular season.

BB may be a jerk, but they've had a solid team for the better part of this decade. And as the HC, he finds ways to put the players in position to succeed. He, along with some sharp personnel execs, find the players that fit. In any given year, there are about 10 teams competing with pretenders comprising the remainder. Buffalo will be a pretender until they start letting football people make football decisions. One reason NE succeeds is their owner doesn't meddle, which is what RW feels is his right. It may be, but his track record of nearly 40 NFL seasons isn't good enough to justify his way.

Everyone is a jokester lately. Or someone's drinking heavily.

What's he got to lose? Simply achieve mediocrity and it'll allow you to keep the 3M per year gig embarrassing your team each week.

Management is the origin of all this team's problems. The owner's handpicked people are nowhere near being average NFL talent or coaching evaluators. Ironic amid all of this remains their reliance on people selected by Donahoe to manage personnel for a GM untrained to build or maintain a football team. It comes as little surprise that marketing man Brandon is unable to craft a winner, let alone have the power to fire the HC I suspect he wanted gone after last year.

So that money spent on Hangartner was merely a bridge to Wood? Wonderful plan, especially given this franchise's track record in building a great OL. Another 10M wasted on an underachieving UFA, only to be replaced by a recent draft pick according to you. And who's asking about comparing players that start at very different positions? Finding quality guards is much easier than finding All Pro LT's who can hold their own on an island. This is demonstrated by the multitude of OT's taken in the top half of the first round versus centers.

Whichever source states that Peters has given up the most sacks is what they'll use. And it's because they eat up the PR from OBD regarding a player who went from UDFA ST'er to 2nd team All-Pro. The way some talk around here, it's their money that Peters was earning.

There's no guarantee that Bell will be half the player Peters was. Levitre and Wood aren't winning at the point of attack. Hangartner is an upgrade over Fowler/Preston, but nothing special. Meanwhile, the RT spot is manned by journeymen more likely to be UFL players next season than anything else. So go ahead and give them an out for cutting or trading their veterans and replacing them with rookies or guys changing positions. Their management decided to enter the season with less experienced/talented players. That's a recipe for failure, but evidently enough Bills fans are already chalking this season up to self-imposed youthful mistakes. Marketing will have an easy time with you.

I cannot wait to see what happens on 1/4 when the season is over. But you know that there's an outside chance the PR folks get together and find a way to explain this season away. The saddest thing is, I can see them keeping DJ and passing off their failure by talking up injuries, youth, and the tough AFCE. DJ helps to ruin Marv's legacy with every game coached and line of rhetoric he utters.

DJ is a disease, and I'm not sure he realizes the decisions he makes on gameday are kill morale. Being at the NO game, I can't help but remember punting down 10 with about 7 minutes to go. That gutless move has to have an affect on players and I just don't buy that they love him as much as the Bills say.

DJ didn't get hired after his interim stint in Detroit back in 2005. He came to Buffalo and has proven that he's capable of being nothing more than a secondary coach. I don't see him being retained beyond 09, but even if he is, he'll collect a few million before he's through with Buffalo. That is, if RW doesn't sue to prevent having to pay him.

April's ST's were good in 08 despite losing Aiken, Stamer, and Haggan who was suspended and not re-signed. In came a guy like Wendling and they were, IIRC, up at the top of the league. Still, as nice as it is to have good ST's, they're not getting it done all over the field. They could have the best ST's and still be 3-5.

Replying to your own post...that's the epitome of greatness. And by greatness I mean not great.

Remember when Josh Reed would move in motion a few years ago and we all knew it'd be a running play? I didn't think it could get worse, but it has. Unfortunately, there are still mouth-breather fans who believe players are at fault. It's not that simple when the people managing those players cannot figure out how to use them. That said, if TO drops a pass and is wide open, it's his fault. But TO was used a lot in motion last year in Dallas to mitigate his issue getting off the LOS. Apparently, DJ doesn't know that and insists on avoiding any type of motion. DJ is the worst coach of the past 25 years. And I remember Rich Kotite.