BillsVet

And as bad as it is losing every year in every conceivable way, we Bills fans have to contend with selling a home game each year and the possibility this team won't exist after RW passes. There is no more dedicated fan base that is forced to deal with more on and off field failures.

It's God's fault now? Boy oh boy.

We need to resurrect the thread that lists each miserable loss this team and its fan base has endured going back to the late nineties. This one surely goes down among some of the all time kick in the groin losses.

Should have interjected I was being sarcastic. Tired of losing close games at this point, but it's becoming a rallying cry year in and year out.

How old are you? If you can't have an intelligent discussion on a message board, don't bother. People disagree sometimes, that's life.

Moral victories are what count anyway.

Defensive Line seems OK against a mediocre Steelers OL. Rest of the team just plain can't get it done.

Hard to help the team when you're injured. 25 games missed in about 2.5 seasons tells me this isn't the case of a guy having bad luck. This is chronic thing, perhaps exacerbated by dependence on PED's. Unfortunately, it takes a player actually being left unsigned or cut before some fans read between the lines and see he's done.

Buddy Nix is becoming to TBD what Bill Brasky was to a bunch of drunk guys on SNL in the mid to late nineties.

This is not a bash the front office at all costs thread, because they've embarrassed themselves quite well already this season. Two out of their 3 UFA's signed in March are already on IR, one of whom, Cornell Green, was cut. And now, a waiver pickup that they went so far as to introduce at a press conference, is out for the season. When someone looks at this in the context of the team being out money, they're missing the point or conveniently ignoring what matters here: that the front office, despite new people at GM and AGM, continue to poorly evaluate personnel. If you're a fan and are wondering why this team rarely wins against quality opponents, it's because talent evaluation has consistently stunk and appears not to be better than when Marv/DJ/Smithers were at the top. It's amazing any Bills fan gives the front office the benefit of the doubt anymore after 11 playoff-less seasons. And if by some miracle RW opens up the pocketbook in March, what gives any fan evidence that the team will sign quality free agents that will help this team rebuild in the 3 years the owner thinks it's going to take?

Merrimam was picked up on waivers, not signed in free agency. Players want to get paid and have a chance to win. Buffalo offers neither right now.

It's hard to sell tickets in the NFL. And we needed a drawing card. Hope RW doesn't mind wasting money.

It used to be that to win in the NFL you had to run and stop the run. That's changed to pass, protect your passer, and stop the other team from passing. I think Bell will be left on his own and go 1 on 1 with Harrison quite a bit tomorrow too Bill. That Steelers defense gets accolades for rushing the passer, but I believe their yielding the fewest rushing yards per game as well. If Buffalo can't run the ball to keep them honest, it makes life even more difficult for guys like Bell, because the team will be in pass mode more often. Undoubtedly Fitzpatrick makes a poor group of OT's look better by getting rid of the ball faster. But he hasn't endured the pressure from elite pass rushers since the Chicago game, when the Bears hit him 12 times. I expect more 3 step drops, but yes I agree, a team with better OT's allows the QB to do more while dropping back. Fewer 3 step drops and time to see his options would make this offense even better. Wrotto will get help from the TE, but Bell's matchup with Harrison should be a good barometer to tell if the much hyped 3rd year OT is really capable of handling top rushers.

I recommend reading Pat Kirwan's Take Your Eye Off The Ball. Lot of good intel in there about things fans don't normally think about when watching a NFL game.

You're illustrating a QB's success or failure by virtue of the QB rating statistic? This debate over Fitzpatrick is a nuanced argument that is deeper than stats alone. Some fans see 18 TDs and 1961 yards passing in 8 games as proof positive that the guy's a long term starter. That's fine, but it's not how many of one stat that matters, it what the guys does when the game is on the line. And if we're talking stats, one that tells the tale is turnovers: Fitzpatrick has 7 INTs in his last 5 games. A team like Buffalo isn't going to outscore their opponent all the time, so turning the ball over less would go a long way to winning more games.

Bumpuses dogs got your Thanksgiving turkey again, didn't they?

Accuracy and arm strength will always be Fitzpatrick's achilles heel. He has to be in a system that doesn't ask him to throw the deep out or passes more than 20 yards. The Dolphins did a great job in 2008 of game-planning to maximize Pennington's strengths without showing his weaker arm. A good offensive staff can work around a QB with less than ideal arm strength. But if a staff has a QB like Fitzpatrick needing to make throws downfield and not backing him up with a solid run game, the results generally aren't good. It's true 8 games is a relatively small sample size, but the true indication of a QB's worth is after teams have had an off-season of film on him. If the guy can come back and play solid football, wonderful. The name of the game is whether a guy has potential and if he can live up to it. When I see a 6th year QB stare down a WR and throw into double coverage like he did on Sunday, I have my doubts. He's gritty, smart, and a good teammate from what I've seen. But in the NFL, you need talent to win regularly and yes, the jury is still out. Just once I'd like to see Buffalo beat a division winner or playoff team convincingly. If the Bills do that Sunday and Fitzpatrick throws for 250 and 2 scores, well, I might begin to contemplate his long term potential as a NFL starting QB.

I'll stop complaining about the team when they win 10 or more games and reach the playoffs. And don't make this a class argument thing, because it's not. Some fans are more into football than others, and that's OK. but you've been a lead cheerleader on this board for a long time, and nearly every time your predictions fail. When people pointed out before the season the QB, pass protection, and pass rush were terrible, you attacked. Well, will you humble yourself and admit this is a rebuilding team that doesn't win against quality teams? Nah, you'd rather make this a class warfare thing and continue complaining that some people aren't impressed beating the dregs of the NFL. 6 teams make the playoffs in the conference meaning 10 don't. If you're impressed winning 4-8 games per season and perhaps challenging for the wildcard, fine. Just don't bash people who demand excellence once in a decade. I mean, even the Raiders, Bucs, and Rams have more wins that Buffalo this season.

And Fiedler had 2 more playoff appearances than Fitzpatrick does. What's your point? That throwing TD passes is more important than actually winning.

You're once again conflating the issue. There are no guarantees with anything, but it's clear without a top flight QB that teams do not advance deep into the playoffs. Some smart guy will come up with an exception, but the fact remains that top teams almost always have top QB's. And as for the draft, it's 5 months away so there's no sense prognosticating about how that'll play out. The Colts, Patriots, and Saints consistently win because their QB can make up for defensive shortcomings. Team them with a good defense and you're talking championship caliber clubs. IMO, even if Buffalo had a decent defense, Fitzpatrick is still going to make more mistakes than a franchise guy and thus help to lose games the team should win. This team has holes all over the field: RT, TE, 2x OLB, FS, CB, and others. Get the franchise guy if you can on draft day and things have a way of working out. Look at TB for goodness sakes.

Casual fans forget the crucial errors Fitz has made that would be magnified if this team were in the playoff hunt or actually competing for the division. He threw a key INT against KC, another against CHI, and a pick 6 against Cincy. Every QB in the league throws picks, and occasionally at inopportune times (P. Manning last week, Brady in AFC Title Game 06) but the great ones don't do it as frequently as Fitzpatrick has. The margin of error is thinner that most casual fans realize, because essentially most Bills fans don't know what a franchise QB does week in and week out and what they do to win games. In 8 games this season, Fitz has completed half or fewer than half of his passes 3 times. He's passed for under 150 yards twice and thrown two INT's four times and is completing about 58% of his passes. Fitz is a decent player playing above average for a bad football team. To ever be a good team, they'll need fewer mistakes from their QB in games against opponents better than Cincinnati and Detroit.

Not allowed to be negative around here. Williams has become the best player in their front 7, but would be even better as a 43 1 tech or perhaps 3 tech. Still one of the few things the Levy/Jauron group got right.

I would agree on counts 1 and 2. Wish that it hadn't taken the off-season, pre-season, and 2 regular season contests to figure out Edwards was not the guy. At this point that's in the past, and they now have a guy who'll throw it downfield rather than play it safe. Not saying Fitz is the next coming, but the HC and QB are one the same page, which is a far cry from DJ and TE. Classic case of a HC being head strong and thinking they can resurrect anyone. On point 3, I don't understand the management of the RB's from Week 1 forward. Sure, Lynch and Jackson were banged up early, but they've had 3 starters in a matter of weeks to open the season. And to take things a step further, the offensive staff have not found a way to involve their top pick, who is averaging about 8 touches through the first 8.5 games. Sure, they may have had no intention of retaining Lynch, but get Spiller involved and give Jackson 15-20 carries per. Holding onto Lynch precluded them from getting the others contributing. I still won't give anyone associated with the Bills the benefit of the doubt after these 11 years. It's great they've got 2 wins and rang up 49 against Cincinnati, but these final 6 weeks will tell more of the story. And then it's on to the off-season where we'll see how committed they are to rebuilding quickly.

The franchise that is in perpetual rebuild mode will do whatever it takes to sell tickets first and foremost, but it'll come from on high and not the HC. Let's be clear, Chan is go along to get along at this point in his coaching career, because he'd probably be out of the NFL without the Bills. Second, the Bills will need a card to play when it comes time to sell ST's in 2011, the way TO and Spiller were hoped to be in 2009 and 2010 respectively. They're going to have to market the heck out of RF because he's really a journeyman QB and smart fans know it. It's a huge stretch to say Fitzpatrick throws 30 TDs, especially considering the opponents these next 6 games and that he'll need to average 2 per game. For every big statistical game he's had, there have been others like vs Detroit and at KC that weren't impressive. I will believe this team goes "heavy" in FA when I see it, because it'll mean the team is spending and not cutting salary as they did from 2009 to 2010. And there are a whole lot of fans, as evidenced by home attendance, nowhere near the bandwagon. It's a 2-8 team at the end of the day with 6 decent opponents in the way.