BillsVet

You tend to lose credibility when you don't win. And Jairus Byrd helps the Bills win on the field and off. Case in point: Take Jairus Byrd away from the Arizona game last year and tell me if the Bills win that one. But the team chose to only tender the player and couldn't come to terms. If you view the Byrd negotiations in a vacuum, well, yeah the team proved their point. But you can be sure fellow agents of potential UFA's and players developed by the Bills will remember this situation if their player gets good like Byrd did. Why do fans worry so much what players are being paid and less about overall roster talent? And what's laughable is the common tactic on TBD that when a unit is horrible (2010-12 defense or 2007-08 offense) and one player wants to get paid we marginalize the player by citing collective failure of that side of the ball.

Parker is most likely prepared to lose the battle this time with Byrd getting tagged. What he won't lose is the war. After 2007, when Peters was a 2nd team All-Pro OT, the Bills refused to re-negotiate. Eventually, the player showed just before the season and played in 2008. The team and player couldn't agree to a deal in the '09 off-season, and the Bills traded him for a first round pick and change. The people who will lose is the front office in terms of credibility by not retaining one of their best players, the coaches, who'll be playing guys less experienced, and the fans, who will see an inferior product. Parker and Byrd will get paid eventually.

Parker was Cornelius Bennett's agent in 1992 when the player signed an extension just before the regular season. Of course, Bill Polian was the GM back then. http://www.buffalonews.com/20130602/high_stakes_hardball.html

Why not say 10M per year? You can't prove me right or wrong. After all, Parker is a greedy player agent who won't work with the team.

What makes me think they don't have a plan? Oh, about the last 8 seasons of winning between 4 and 7 games per season. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's been pointed out many times on this board that the roster hasn't truly been rebuilt, only a piece added when another is deleted. A prime example is the ILB/MLB position. Let Fletcher go, draft Posluszny. Let Posluszny go, draft Sheppard. Trade Sheppard, draft a guy like Alonso. Sure, it costs money to re-sign your own free agents but you then use the draft to fill needs. Not that they've been stellar on draft day either. And here we are years later with another young unproven guy we hope can play. Cost savings? Sure. But no building going on and 4-7 wins later another non-playoff season. Welcome to Buffalo Bills football 2001-2013.

Who's responsible for initiating contract talks? Is it the team or agent? I would expect the team to do this, not the agent. And if there's one thing I know, information leaks whenever a team engages in contract negotiations. That didn't happen in neither Levitre's nor Byrd's case. Another concept lost among many here is you don't begin negotiating when against a wall. Does it make sense to begin negotiations a month before the player hits UFA or more than a year before when they don't have the security of a long term contract? Put yourself in a player's shoes for a moment. I don't see a player like Levitre getting the deal he got in March if Buffalo had begun negotiations early in the 2012 off-season. Finally, among home-grown players who are proven, who has Buffalo signed before the player reached their walk-year? The decision on Levitre or Byrd should have been made before the 2011 season concluded. And if, at that point they decided against retaining the player, they should have have a player in mind to step in or how to address the position in UFA or the draft. Instead, we typically get an unproven young player This seems harsh to some surface level fans, but we're talking the NFL here. It's not building a fantasy football team with keepers.

Bill Polian made up for the poor organizational philosophy with outstanding drafts and personnel decisisons. He was so much better than everyone that people didn't notice the how dysfunctional the Bills were managed by the owner and his top people. In the span of 4 years (85-88) he drafted multiple HOF'ers (B.Smith, Thurman and soon to be Reed), signed another (Kelly) and continued to find players in later rounds that added key depth. But you know this already, correct? The BIlls haven't had a GM who could make up for their poor organizational philosophy with outstanding drafts and other personnel transactions since Polian. Even Butler couldn't keep the pace and the Bills glory years ended. But again, you already knew that. Not to mention you're comparing two entirely different eras. No free agency, as someone already mentioned. And, teams weren't as equal in terms of scouting. The Bills were finding players from all over the country, in later rounds, and signing guys who could play. Now, there are no secrets on drafts day. The Bills succeeded from '88 to '99 because the front office could make up with talent acquisiton for senior management interventions in personnel. But you already knew that.

You're addressing symptoms of OBD's dysfunction, not the root cause. The organizational philosophy is what stands in the way of success, in that non-football people are making decisions which impact the football side of the house. Just because Russ is a different person than RW doesn't mean they don't share the same philosophy. After all, subordinates tend to follow the example of their supervisor. Nowhere did I say anything about a lack of money being paid out. And let's be honest, this discussion is so nuanced that saying "RW is cheap" or "RW isn't cheap" doesn't even begin to address the root cause of why this team can't get out of their own way. The main question remains why the team, across multiple GM's, HC's, QB's, coordinators, draft picks, etc. can't win enough to make the post-season? Why do they waste resources on players like Mark Anderson which preclude them from signing more valuable players?

Ironically, that decision was made during Russ Brandon's tenure as GM. Nothing like having someone without personnel experience making decisions on players. Because I highly doubt DJ and Sean Kugler would switch Langston Walker to play a position he wasn't physically suitable nor acquired to play. But I suppose if people are looking for overwhelming objective evidence that the team is managed by financially driven people at the expense of the roster well, you can go on believing what you want. The results across multiple "regimes" indicate their organizational priorities are way out of line.

It's amazing that Brandon and Overdorf get the benefit of the doubt so easily. They are in a select group who have been on the payroll during this era of losing, specifically since 2006 when Brandon moved into a more executive role. No matter how poorly they do as a team, both the president and chief contract negotiator will never be let go. If winning were the priority here that it is in other franchises, change would not be reserved to only the HC, GM, and a couple front office types.

We can debate all day how successful the team is in signing good players versus others clubs. It's a weak attempt at conflating the argument by those who would rather not criticize a "new" regime. But the record is what it is, and winning one third of your games means your personnel decisions were bad. All the while, there are common themes developing between the new and previous "regimes." Cutting players before camp, not being able to sign All-Pro caliber talent. New coaches, GM's, etc. It's all symbolic until they begin proving they are willing to do what it takes to win.

Yes, I neglected to include Pears and Chandler. I will update.

During the Nix "Regime" 2010-2012 UFA / Re-signed players not with team Dwan Edwards: Signed as an UFA to a 4 year 18M contract March 2010 (cut September 2012) Cornell Green: Signed as an UFA to a 3 year 9M contract March 2010 (cut November 2010) Chris Kelsay: Re-signed to a 5 year 28.2M contract extension September 2010 (retired February 2013) George Wilson: Re-signed to a 3 year 7M contract March 2011 (cut February 2013) Drayton Florence: Re-signed to a 3 year 15M contract July 2011 (cut May 2012) Tyler Thigpen: Signed as an UFA to a 3 year 11M contract July 2011 (cut March 2013) Nick Barnett: Signed as an UFA to a 3 year 12M contract July 2011 (cut February 2013) Ryan Fitzpatrick: Re-signed to a 6 year 59M contract October 2011 (cut March 2013) Vince Young: Signed as an UFA to a 1 year 2M contract May 2012 (cut August 2012) Mark Anderson: Signed as an UFA to a 4 year 20M contract March 2012 (cut January 2013) UFA / Re-signings Kyle Williams: Re-signed to a 6 year 33.6M contract extension July 2011 (2013 starter) Brad Smith: Signed as an UFA to a 4 year 15M contract July 2011 (potential cut 2013) Erik Pears: Re-signed to a 4 year 9.8M contract December 2011 (likely 2013 starter) Rian Lindell: Re-signed to a 4 year 10M contract extension February 2012 (potential cut 2013) Steve Johnson: Re-signed to a 5 year 36.25M contract extension March 2012 (2013 starter) Mario Williams: Signed as an UFA to a 6 year 96M contract March 2012 (potential re-structuring 2014) Scott Chandler, Re-signed to a 2 year 5.5M contract March 2012 (2013 starter) Fred Jackson: Re-signed to a 3 year 10.8M contract extension May 2012 (2013 primary backup) Kraig Urbik: Re-signed to a 4 year 13.3M contract extension December 2012 (2013 starter) Nix decided to sign 19 players during his tenure. 10 are no longer on the roster and departed before their contract was up, meaning his hit rate was about 50%. That's a far cry from the batting 1.000 you mentioned, but still well above the .333 winning percentage his teams recorded. If Brad Smith and Lindell are cut, well, then Nix has so far hit on about 40% of his signings.

Value pickups are nice, but they aren't winning games. If you want to fill your roster with Kraig Urbik's and Scott Chandlers, well fine. But until this team can prove they can keep their elite talent, it's all symbolism over substance. Elite talent wins games and it costs money. Apparently that price to retain your own talent is too high for the Bills. Rarely in the post-Donahoe era has this team had an All-Pro caliber player they developed come up for a contract extension. Yet, in the two instances it occurred, there was significant acrimony between the team and player. Some will say it's Eugene Parker, whatever. I still see a franchise where non-football people still have more input on personnel moves than they should. Regardless of who the GM is, this style of leadership continues to hang over the franchise like a cloud. After all, Brandon learned at the foot of RW.

So who is the next Chris Kelsay they can re-sign in order to meet the CBA requirements? IMO, the Bills are adept at signing people who don't pose as much threat during negotiations. Simply look at the players they've re-signed going back to 2010: the aforementioned Kelsay, Kyle Williams, Kraig Urbik, Rian Lindell, Drayton Florence, George Wilson, Fred Jackson, Fitzpatrick, and Stevie. None would be considered elite talent, but certainly filled roles or are decent players. It also says a lot that the team has, in the past 6 years, signed big UFA contracts (Dockery in '07, Mario '12) and allows their own developed top talent out the door. From a planning perspective, it's not a good message to send guys you draft who develop.

This tends to happen when the franchise hasn't been even gotten to .500 in the last 8 seasons. There'd be a lot less questioning considering the results. And for the record, I have never once talked about or wished for the demise of the owner. So unless you've got proof to support otherwise, your insinuation I said that is completely baseless.

There are some team shills on this board who make Chris Brown look tame.

Maybe this is why Overdorf can only negotiate one contract at a time. And who does Overdorf report to? His contract negotiations, given the cap, can greatly affect what the personnel guys want to do in free agency and of course who to re-sign. I'd love to know who sets parameters for a contract offer or the process involved. Something tells me Brandon immerses himself in that, which potentially cuts or hinders the personnel guys. The more things change...

Almost 60 pages in the thread and arguments are being built from "reports." And for all the "reports" that the agent is negotiating in public, there isn't anything substantive to support this, just some tweets and unverified opinions.

As usual, I do not afford the Bills the benefit of the doubt given the track record. I'll continue to remain dubious until I see results, which is only logical and not and emotional response. And I am not saying merely to give the player what he wants as a method of to placating fans. Last year the Bills spent mega dollars on a DE widely thought to be one of the best on the open market in years. But they need more proven talent to get this next rebuild completed ASAP. Unfortunately, as BADOL has noted in another thread, the team will add a good player while letting another go. Do you think it's a coincidence that over the span of the Donahoe, Levy/Brandon, and Nix years that the team hasn't won? Do you think it's a coincidence that over the span of 4 coaches during that time that the team hasn't won? This issue, IMO, is about the highest echelon of management and their decision making process.

Not only is the lead cheerleaders description deceptive, he cites the max amount of Clady's deal as the actual contract amount. Are there likely to be earned incentives? I know Clady's deal, for some bonuses to kick in, mean he needs to be voted All-Pro twice to get close to 57.5M. I can't wait for the articles to continue about how Aaron Williams, Duke Williams, and Jonathan Meeks are playing well in camp while Byrd holds out.

Amen CT. The Bills allow their own to reach peak value by not negotiating contracts before a player reaches his walk year. I doubt Byrd and Levitre would require the contracts they seek/have if the team began negotiations in late 2011. Every time the franchise takes a step forward, they'll then take at least a step back, as you note.

Well, Ryan Clady has re-signed a huge deal: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/14/broncos-ryan-clady-agree-to-five-year-contract-extension/ Why the Bills can't negotiate is beyond me. And if Schefter is correct, this will drag into the pre-season and be a major distraction like the Peters saga was.

Peters had fewer cards in 2009 than Byrd does now and Parker still got him paid. Until we know what the Byrd camp is demanding, it's hard to say one way or another who is completely out of line. But if it's 8M per and the Bills are balking, it's further indication that while faces have changed at OBD, the end result is still that the Bills won't re-sign their own elite talent.

Who would the Bills extend if they don't sign Byrd long term? I haven't heard about negotiations with Eric Wood, who now enters the final year of his deal. Spiller, according to Rotoworld, is signed through 2015. The question I have is if the Bills save money by not signing Byrd and going with unproven options at free safety, who will they use it on? And how does that help the team win now? That good enough eball?