BillsVet

Who hired Marrone? Who hired Whaley? Did they just drop out of the sky over OBD and start as HC and GM? Or could it be that, as I suspect, Brandon is behind these moves. It's the same issue that's plagued OBD for years: inferior (and unqualified) senior management making bad decisions on football people, coaches, players, et al. It remains impossible for the Bills to keep hiring bad coaches without something pointing to management above the coaching level. And I get that someone will say no one wants to work here, or that they can't be perfect in their decision making, but at some point this organization needs to string together a few good decisions in a row. But with new and younger owners in charge, something at the highest level needs to change. Or else this cycle of failure will continue.

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning."

When does Russ Brandon claim Nix hired Marrone? Or will Russ throw Whaley under the bus for the Marrone hire to save his team president job. Either way, same old Bills.

One of the big names in the player agent business. I remember him negotiating Mario's deal 2+ years ago to be the highest paid defensive player. Guy just lost some major money.

NFL HC's are definitely a select group, but if you don't win, you don't survive. And Marrone is a career 11-14 guy who's supposed to make the playoffs with this improved roster. I'm still not seeing what Marrone has proven in these 25 games besides being a conservative coach that isn't the innovative type promised to the fans. Said Marrone at his intro PC in January 2013: ""We want to be innovative," he said. "We want to be on the cutting edge." Buffalo is most assuredly neither of those things. It's a myth to think, with a new owner on board, that this HC deserves more than 2 seasons. Some coaches aren't even getting that anymore, especially when new owners and GM's enter the picture. If Marrone doesn't get this team to at least 9-7 he's probably getting the ax.

I love when you throw in the win emoticon. Because I know you're serious. There are teams in the NFL who've won, rebuilt, and now are winning again. Heck, Arizona (despite losing Palmer) has the best record in football. All of this after hiring a new HC (Arians) after the last one (Whisenhunt) began losing after Kurt Warner retired. And yet the Bills are still in the DMZ of the NFL: not really rebuilding but not winning either.

The problem in this era of the NFL is that teams aren't winning with dominating defense consistently enough to make the playoffs. This is a Bills defense, that while excellent, still yielded 24 points to New England in one half. So despite their defense, they've still got to average more than 21 points per they've had this season. Playoff teams have above average to excellent offenses and defense alone isn't going to win a game late in the season.

I don't think Pegula dropped 1.4B+ on this team to see them go .500 or less. When does Ernie Accorsi start again?

Hackett and Marrone are too attached at the hip for the former to be let go without the latter. You're still going to get the same predictable offense no matter who is OC under Marrone.

Marrone was advertised as as someone who'd be innovative and improve the offense. In addition, given his OL background, we were told he'd help that unit. Yet, after week 2, the offense has become stagnant, save for the gift NYJ gave Buffalo 2 weeks ago. Marrone hired Nate Hackett, who isn't qualified to be a NFL OC and undoubtedly this move was prompted by the fact that the two wanted to run a similar offense which features little imagination and predictable play-calling. The team is trending in the wrong direction with Marrone running things. Offensively they've averaging a shade below 20 points per in the last 7 games, which is a far cry from where we figured they'd be with more talent supposedly on the roster. EDIT: Buffalo is 23rd in the league in both yards per game (331.0) and points per game (21.2). Not the innovation and output you'd expect from how Brandon advertised Marrone.

There may well be more talent, but the result remains the same. What good is individual talent if the team as a whole can't finish games? For example, offensively, their weapons are much better than '08 or '11. Yet, Hackett is calling throws with 3 step drops so as to mitigate the poor block. The common denominator (regardless of talent) is that the coaches have so many issues to hide and opponents know how to attack those weaknesses. It's why in the second half Buffalo has a tendency to self-destruct. Like in 2008 when they went 3-8 after the bye or 2-8 in 2011.

You could have said this in 2002, 2006, 2008, 2011, and this season. Doesn't matter how much talent you've got if the coaches can't use it effectively.

Buffalo is averaging less than 20 points per game since beating Miami in week 2. And that includes the Geno Smith/Mike Vick turnover-fest in the Meadowlands 2 weeks ago. That'd be okay if the defense was elite AND this was before the passing game opened up. But even good defenses yield points and teams aren't winning the length of a season with strong defense and mediocre offense. That very offense has become anemic and I don't see it changing. With lesser talent and/or coaching, mediocre teams' true colors come out in the second half of the season. Doug Marrone has become the latest in a long line of offensively-challenged HC's.

Gotta disagree. Whaley didn't put together much on the surface. He's made some good moves, but the draft is still an issue for this organization. Outside the 1st and 2nd rounds, Buffalo doesn't find above average NFL starters. The OL is a mess. Neither Buddy or Doug recognized having a durable veteran QB is a requirement, the trade for Bryce Brown doesn't look good at all right now, and the coach Brandon hired is quickly becoming a running joke. The latest rebuild (number 3 since TD was fired for those counting at home) is in it's fifth year. I expect they'd have better talent than the DJ/Marv/Brandon years, and yet their record amazingly continues to be mediocre.

A reasoned, rational, thoughtful response. I'm betting you weren't paying much attention or weren't yet a fan in 2002, 2008, and 2011 when the team zoomed out to good starts and fell apart in the second half. Because if you were, a response such as this wouldn't be offered.

Usually trust is built after a record of success. Saint Doug is now a 11-14 HC in the NFL. He has a very small sample that proves he's a winning HC, and not being able to win at home after a bye is not helping his case either.

A) It took them the 2013 preseason, 2013 regular season, and almost the entire 2014 off-season to get a durable and experienced NFL QB on this roster. Prior to this they had glass-Kolb, a journeyman in Lewis, UDFA Jeff Tuel, and a myriad of others now out of the league. The exception was Tarvaris Jackson who they inexplicably cut. B) You would pull EJ too if your HC and GM job was on the line. The expectations were playoffs in 2014 and it was clear after week 4 EJ wasn't taking this team there. C) EJ presses because he's afraid of failing. He does exactly what the staff tells him to do and showed little ability to adapt to opposing defenses. He is headed toward bust status real quick.

The third round is where Buffalo has drafted very poorly. Going back to 2006, they've got almost nothing to show from that round. Ashton Youboty, Trent Edwards, Chris Ellis, no pick in '09, Alex Carrington, Kelvin Sheppard, TJ Graham, and now Goodwin. A good personnel department finds starters regularly in the third. The Bills draft gadget players or straight up busts. Perhaps that's changed with Preston Brown, but it's too early to tell.

Buffalo is 2-3 against teams this season with winning records through week 10. They're 3-1 against sub-.500 teams. I recall reading on this very message board how much talent the Bills had, and yet, they're not threatening for the division lead, and are behind in the chase for 2 wild cards. As a matter of fact, there are 10 AFC teams with 5 or more wins, and if 4 win their division, that means Buffalo is competing with 6 other franchises for 2 wild cards. Is that pessimistic? Their climb just got a lot more harder with today's loss. I cited 2008 and 2011 because the same things are happening. The players and coaches did change, but the result doesn't and I've been around long enough to see there are too many similarities from those seasons to 2014.

"Remain calm! All is well!" 2014 is beginning to look like 2008 and 2011. Sure, there are different players and coaches. Problem is, those coaches have a tendency to get out-coached when it matters most.

It's one thing to beat solid teams like Detroit in the final minutes. But having to come from behind or playing close games at Chicago and home versus Detroit aren't what I'd cite when they can't beat a decent team like KC.

Who calls for that on 4th down with all the success teams have running a QB sneak? Don't let your 7th round rookie RT botch things.

I would have him sacked. Preferably by people dressed as Huns or Visigoths.

You have to love that players get 100% of the blame when the team doesn't win. It's a nuanced discussion, but right now more than 50% of the problem does their work from the sideline. The offense is anemic, unimaginative, and boring to be brutally honest. I thought Marrone was going to be an innovative coach, and he's a really more of the same: annoyingly conservative when there's a calculated risk to take. They're wasting good players and I hope the Pegulas are watching. Time to clean out everyone. This is more of the same.

Which is what NE's OL usually are. I don't even know their interior 3 OL right now, but Buffalo got very little pressure up the middle in the 2nd half a few weeks ago against NE. Brady's only been sacked 14 times this year, which while not all either QB or OL, is not much. And pretty good considering the Pats have had multiple OL injuries this year. I don't think the personnel group is aligned with the coaching staff. It happened with Nix and Gailey when the former wanted the biggest OL and then they drafted a waterbug back. And I sense it happening again. A guy like Urbik has been benched in favor of a RT who's among the worst RG's in the game. Judging OL talent and using it appropriately is something just about every personnel/coaching tandem has been wrong about since the mid nineties.