BillsVet

That's two and a half years ago. Players regress and progress, the result of injuries, scheme change, whatever. Wood re-signed IIRC in the off-season to a decent sized contract. It's OK to ask if the guy's living up to it given how they've struggled running the ball, albeit yesterday against a solid defense. For all the people who hate Sullivan, he sure seems to get a lot of attention.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree because it's not about being able to make the throw. All NFL QB's can, but can they do it when the game's on the line on 3rd down? Manuel's inconsistency rears its head much more often and the likelihood he'd have nailed the throw to Goodwin is not high. The fact EJ isn't a veteran is not why Marrone pulled him. It's because he held the team back in terms of offensive play-calling and his inability to make plays, i.e. throws downfield. Excellent win. Looking forward to the NE game.

Darren Sproles...I think he grew at least 1 inch since last season.

It lends credibility to the concept of finding a veteran guy who can be efficient and make a few plays. Somewhat like KC did with Alex Smith. Of course it has to be the right player in the right scheme, but looking at the QB's who've played decent minutes in 2014 already (I counted 45) half of them had 7 years or more experience. 16 have 10 or more years in the NFL. So it seems teams are admitting that QB's need more seasoning. The 2011 draft specifically saw some guys go way before they should have. I think the value on QB's is beginning to level out, as in not over-drafting them based on need like Minnesota did a few years ago with a guy like Ponder who was widely believed to be 2nd round material.

The conspiracy is someone posted 5 threads with the same title.

They had the 8th overall pick and they traded down to 16 to get the guy thought by the braintrust to be their franchise guy. You don't win in the NFL by giving up 8 for 16 and a 2nd rounder unless you get something from both picks. It's not enough with players aging, contracts expiring, et al. Justifying the pick by saying "well at least they hit on the 2nd rounder" is weak. Just because something isn't a total loss doesn't mean it's a good decision.

In his first mini-camp no less. http://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-state-football-fsu-noles/2013/5/20/4347866/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills-offense-easier

Sometimes teams get lucky. And sometimes teams get lucky in their quest for a QB. I'm not going to go crazy and expect the guy to throw for 300 yards every game, but a look at his starts going back to 2010 (when he did start) show that he's capable to make plays. And given the weapons he's got and experience, I don't think it's insane to expect some W's as a result. Cautiously optimistic on Orton at this point.

What kind of front office do you have when you expect Kevin Kolb to a) remain healthy b) give him a 2 year 6.1M deal (with 2M guaranteed) and c) expect him to push/mentor your rookie QB? Not a very good one. These moves they've made at QB going back to when Nix came aboard are head-scratching to say the least. It's hard to tell where Buddy's bad decisions ended and Whaley's began.

Peter King spoke to this earlier this week: http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/30/buffalo-bills-benching-ej-manuel/ I think EJ has always been someone who did specifically what was asked of him, which worked in college. At the pro level there's a need to adapt and be creative, which he's not accustomed to being on the field.

There hasn't been a sense of urgency at OBD for years. So long as RW was alive, the OBD lifers were guaranteed to have jobs regardless of the results. That may sound harsh, but things changed dramatically when Mr. Wilson passed. The entire tone of the place changed, as evidenced by their trade up to grab Watkins. The GM's, HC's, coaches, and players may change, but the result has remained the same. It's the senior people who've been there for this duration who impact the on-field result more than some can imagine. Hopefully Pegula has an organizational review conducted during the latter part of this season. There's some people who've lasted longer than they would for most teams.

Guys like Mike Williams, Robert Woods, and others have a vested interest in who the QB is. Wasn't it Williams' mother who joked with him about the lack of targets as compared to his Tampa years? Nice answer Orton had for Buscaglia. Almost better than Bryce Harper and his "clown question bro" response.

I haven't seen a Bills HC be this authoritative in years, and it's not surprising that it's taken place after RW's ownership. There's been a lot of self-preservation going on at OBD for years and finally someone's not standing for the status quo. We heard rumblings in February that Marrone and the staff weren't satisfied with the trainers. Brandon swiftly put that fire out by forcing Marrone to toe the line. And then there's Marrone yelling before practice a few weeks ago. His coaching life is at stake and for once there's a Bills HC who isn't going to accept the crap OBD forces on that HC. It wouldn't surprise me if Marrone pushed for Orton knowing EJ was still a project and there was some waffling. After all, it was Whaley who said they were good at QB earlier in the off-season. And Jason Cole had a report that players and staff told Marrone in the off-season EJ wasn't good enough.

If you take the games EJ's finished for Buffalo, then Marrone's career record as a HC is 6-8, which is the same as Belichick's first 14 games in 1991 with Cleveland. Ergo, Marrone and Belichick are the same. And people want to fire Marrone? Makes no sense. No sense at all. Doug Marrone's done more in his life than most people who post on TBD, so anyone who criticizes him is clearly not bright.

He can't dance but he can play QB. I'll bet Orton's downed more bottles of Jack though

Those Indianapolis teams were built on Manning (most teams are built on superior QB play) but they shaded more toward the offensive side of the ball. It's why the first DC, Vic Fangio (now of SF) had to leave. The Colts allocated more resources to the offense and needed to have a T2 defense which could bend. Fangio wanted otherwise, and I think those Colts (through 2007) had a suitable strategy given their QB. Polian wasn't perfect, and naming his kid as heir apparent at GM wasn't a wise move. But he's one of the best GM's in NFL history.

EJ rifled in a 7 yard pass to Watkins IIRC in the 2nd half.

There's a GM who drafted a QB in the middle of the first round about 10 years ago, the guy went bust, and that GM still has his job. His name is Ozzie Newsome and he's one of the best in the business. Newsome signed Steve McNair for a couple years and then hit on Flacco in 2008, which has been a solid choice. Unfortunately, Whaley is not in the same situation where there's ownership consistency such as Baltimore has had for years. A new owner may not be so patient, and that's entirely reasonable seeing as how that owner just plunked down 1.4B. I think Whaley will go and it's because he's not made enough solid decisions. This season may well bear that out, but I'll yield that his predecessor did him no favors with even more bad decisions which impacted both this and last season.

Whaley's responsible for not just the Manuel pick, but eschewing veteran options this year when it was clear Manuel wasn't ready. Strategically, they haven't handled the QB position well, i.e. finding a veteran, unless you believe the narrative Kolb was brought in to start last year. Throw in the revolving door post-Levitre at LG. The Kouandjio pick which isn't looking good. And the book still isn't complete, because Watkins may well turn out to be a great pro...but giving up a 1st rounder pick to move up 5 spots for a team without a QB sure looks more foolish with each EJ incompletion. It's the entire strategy behind this team. They may have more talent but they're not much better in the W column either and there's an overhaul necessary. It doesn't help Whaley's case that he was Nix's top assistant from 2010-2012 when they bungled everything on their way to winning one-third of their games.

Frankly, you don't know me. And I don't know you. But I know a little bit about mental toughness and leadership from experience being tested in a third world country. The way an individual responds when they're down is important. I don't expect EJ to stand up and say he stunk, but I don't expect sulking either. Leadership is something that becomes infectious to an organization, good or bad. And I believe his teammates are watching their QB get down, which can be a huge negative in that locker room. A mentality coach isn't going to resolve this issue either.

Mental toughness is an oft-described concept that I don't think is discussed properly. That said, we have an issue where kids today are told they're doing well when they're not. When those kids become adults, the big boy and big girl world is hard for them to adjust to and they struggle. Sure there are exceptions and the old-school ways of yelling at people all the time isn't healthy either. I just get the sense EJ's been told he's great and now that's obviously not the case he's struggling. I don't know anything about EJ's upbringing, but I'll go out on a limb and say he's never really dealt with adversity the way he needs to now. And to echo what Coach Tuesday say above, he's done if he's gotta get mentality coaching.

Sorry I missed that. I'm just stunned. I guess I need to get a life coach now to deal with my depression about the Bills losing so much.

Jairus Byrd doesn't play for the Bills any longer. This schadenfreude over former players is pointless.

Matthew Fairburn writing for syracuse.com noted that EJ is going to be in contact with his mental coach from FSU. I don't even know how to adequately and appropriately respond to this, if true. A mental coach. You've got to be kidding me. Unbelievable. "Prior to the game, Albert Breer of NFL Network reported Manuel was again working with his mental conditioning coach from Florida State." Marrone cannot fix someone who's been told for years that he's good. Nor can Hostler, Downing, or Hackett. If a guy's mentally weak because no one has been hard on him at times, then the NFL isn't the correct venue to start.

The biggest positive is Pegula has to be watching and making opinions of the current regime. A lot can happen, but there's no doubt regime change becomes more likely with losses like today's.