BillsVet

The refs/weather/playing 9 of the 13 top defenses/the refs/the league schedule makers fault the last 15 years.

It's hard to win in the NFL.

One play now defines whether a player is good or not? I guess we can begin conflating the argument now. The guy's back has been a career long issue and those injuries don't disappear.

You make a lot of assumptions on the way to stating your "facts." First, we have no idea who anyone preferred, least of all Whaley who isn't a big talker. Second, this argument about Brandon's decision making is like saying France had a triumvirate in the late 18th century and everyone had a vote. Except Napoleon's was the biggest one. Brandon was the overriding decider on the HC, with Buddy and to a lesser extent Whaley being there as well. A well-known and credible poster (Simon) has stated this earlier in the thread. Third, given Russ Brandon's position of power, recent (circa Jan 1, 2013) promotion, and personality traits, I highly doubt he would (as should have been done) delegate the responsibility to a GM to hire a HC. After all, RW was the deciding individual on coaches (when it's typically GM's for most organizations). And Brandon learned from RW. Additionally, who would want Buddy Nix (imminently retiring or not) naming a HC.? Or trust that Doug Whaley would get it right the first time he was involved in a HC hiring? I cannot imagine the newly crowned Brandon would. Go back to February when it was leaked that the coaches were dissatisfied with the athletic trainers. Whaley didn't speak about it, but Brandon sure got everyone on the same page and the issue magically disappeared. People have forgotten that rift because 1 month later Mr. Wilson passed away. No one loses responsibility and takes it as a good sign. Anyone who's worked in management despises losing power, which Brandon just did apparently over football operations. Moreover, it sounds (and I'm speculating) that he's trying to weasel his way into the owner's ear in order to have more control than just being team president. Why wouldn't someone want to reclaim in an indirect way what they previously had before the new ownership? I won't belabor this point anymore because A) understanding management personalities with career-minded objectives is impossible to some here and B) it's not worth it. The Bills are winning 40% of their games since 2000 and people are applauding them, particularly the OBD lifers responsible. If that's not mindbendingly ridiculous I don't know what is. Unless of course winning is priority 2, which I'd say it became these past 14 year or so.

The same Brandon who hired a HC without much input from the current GM as noted by a very credible poster earlier in this post? In doing so, he created a situation where the GM and HC aren't on the same page because the latter didn't get to hire his own guy. Which is why I can see now that Whaley makes moves and then those players, like Mike Williams, Bryce Brown, et al. don't play. There are too many factions at OBD and it's not like they were aligned before this. And you have none other to blame for this situation than the guy the Pegula's felt required to remove from football operations as one of their first decisions. Coincidence? I think not.

After Saint Doug was given bad info on Manuel's knee late in the season, the coaches requested to hire new athletic trainers. Back in February it was leaked that Marrone and company were ultimately overruled. Not long after Brandon made it clear there were apparently no issues, Marrone changed his tune. Doug Whaley was nowhere to be found and this was before RW passed. So, it should be obvious that Whaley toed the company line, followed orders, and the coaches weren't happy. And people wonder if there's a divide? Which tells me that Brandon picked Marrone with perhaps some input from the GM. How could there not be dysfunction at OBD?

It's myopic and an example of small picture thinking to just say if you get a QB then everything falls into place. Who finds the QB? Or do they drop out of the sky? Because you don't invest 1.4B plus and not put independent eyes on your investment. Having said that, do you trust, based on objective evidence, Doug Whaley and crew to make the right decision at the QB position?

After years of missing the playoffs, the problem with the Bills is bigger than who's HC or playing QB. It's the people making the decisions to hire the HC or how they go about identifying and acquiring a QB. While they've moved Brandon from supervising football ops, they've still got football people who strategically don't get it. These same people didn't plan appropriately at QB from 2010-present and traded future picks for a WR who, while he looks excellent, isn't a 1st and 4th better (at this point) than the other 2014 WR options. The point is their plan to win is extremely flawed. A consultant is necessary to evaluate the people who are OBD lifers or hired by the lifers that acclimate to the culture which has taken hold. And then it's imperative for the consultant to educate the owner (who hasn't been in the NFL long) and provide recommendations for the owner to implement. If that means relieving people who've achieved nothing beyond 8 win seasons, so be it. Because right now I think Terry and Kim are learning, but I don't trust the current people at OBD to suggest making changes. The owner needs independent eyes right now.

Here's where I expect a pro personnel department to know what they're doing. They invested in guys like Kolb and Chris Williams, both of whom had serious injury histories. They may not have invested much, but they figured Kolb would be able to play in a pinch and Williams could start. They banked on both of them and surprise, surprise they were injured. I'm fine with taking calculated risks, but the Bills do it far too often on wing and a prayer types. Why plan for a guy to start who's susceptible to injury and how come the Bills did not know this with Williams, considering their depth at guard? As for the OL, well, it's still bad. Wood looks pedestrian (but is paid like a Pro Bowl type), Glenn isn't much better, Seantrel is passable at this point, and the two guards are bad. That includes Urbik who has a tendency to whiff as much as Adam Dunn. Cyril Richardson was an embarrassment and Kouandjio can't even dress for this team as a 2nd round pick from a top NCAA program. Talent evaluation is bad, both pro and college and that's why this team can't win more than 8 games in a season for going on 10 years.

It is...unless you draft poorly on the OL and let players out the door, only to replace them with the likes of bargain bin types like Colin Brown and Chris Williams.

Louis Vasquez was a solid signing for Denver in 2013 and he didn't break the bank. 4 yrs 23.5M w/13M guaranteed.

Facts hate the Bills and are the reason they couldn't make the playoffs.

Not everyone can be Ryan Grigson and walk into a job with the top pick and have Andrew Luck fall into your lap. I get that the pickings have been slim at QB since 2013, but the Bills have approached the QB position as if they were waiting for their collective ship to come in. Well, I say swim out to it. You keep trying to get the QB until you know you've got one. The Bills have done anything but, going with a guy, seeing that he's not good enough, then trying someone new, and wasting years in the process. A lot of people here say you can't evaluate Marrone until he gets a QB. Well, who's responsible for obtaining that guy? It's Whaley and Marrone, but for the better part of 2 off-seasons and a regular season they felt comfortable with Manuel. He's proven to not be up to the task. That's on the GM and HC. I know surface fans don't like to talk strategic vision for building a team, but Buddy Nix refusing to draft a young guy in 2011-12 is what has given us the situation Buffalo's in now. You can't say there haven't been options since 2013 without recognizing that past mistakes can affect future seasons. This isn't all Whaley's fault, but the approach since 2013 has been very passive and not consistent with how winning teams address the position. Dick Jauron took below average to average talent and made it a below average to average team. Now, Doug Marrone is taking above average talent and making them average to below average. Some will say that because he doesn't have a good QB that somehow he's exempt from criticism and needs another year. Bruce Arians is winning with Drew Stanton QBing the Cardinals. Is Doug Marrone going to magically become a better HC in year 3? Is he trending up or stagnated? I tend to think the latter, as evidenced by the decisions I've seen him make this year. He's not innovative, not someone who knows his own talent, and hasn't improved the offense. I guess we can cue someone to say it's not his fault, but I don't need another season to see that. Marrone isn't responsible for 15 years of failure. The point is, you can't continue being mediocre, which is what the Bills are. Next year their best players under contract for 2015 will be a year older and the window closes, unless you somehow begin replacing talent that departs or declines.

Does Marrone make the team better? Does he do more with above average talent? Or is the get out of jail free card that he doesn't have a QB instantly give him more time? Because he's the HC and in concert with the GM, helps to make decisions on personnel. Both Whaley and Marrone are tied together and therefore both have failed should they fail to reach the playoffs. A lot of people said Nix improved the talent, that Whaley continued it, etc. Well, we're still looking for Buddy's baby and it hasn't come. How much time do you need in the modern NFL to put a team on the field to make the playoffs? Because it's a lot harder to go from 8 to 10-11 wins than it is to go from 6 to 8. And they're not ready to take that leap unless there's a big improvement on the offensive side of the ball. Settling for mediocre to average football isn't what I'd highlight for a franchise that's been riding that train for the better part of 15 years. Because right now, they're not worthy of making the playoffs and there's no indication the current management and staff in place are up for that challenge. The goal in 2014 was to make the playoffs, given the trade for Sammy, signing of Orton, improvement on defense in 2013-14, et al. But they've fallen back to average when people expecting playoffs. I remember people talking progress in 2006-07 when DJ had them on the heroic march to 7-9. When they did the same thing in 2008 (starting 5-1 and then going 2-8 to finish 7-9) people weren't enthused.

I can't give Whaley much credit for his drafts when they have what looks like a 1st round bust from their 2013 first rounder and the 2nd rounder in 2014 can't even dress for a bad OL. Or giving up so much for a WR when the draft class was so strong at that position. Strategically, he's made huge blunders, most notably thinking they could go with a rookie QB in 2014 without a competent veteran backup. And for those who claim Kolb was going to be that guy in 2013, well, his injury history should have made them look for other options. Unless he was signed to be the backup, which I believe was the plan. They trade for guys like Mike Williams and then don't play him. Or, The HC is bombing right now, the OC clearly is in over his head. And they're 7-6 after years of rebuilding, which didn't start when Whaley officially became GM. It began with the 2010 season. So after all these 5 years they're only able to get to 7/8 wins? That's inexcusable in a league where teams are making huge strides in 1 year.

Not every NFL city has a pro football team that's missed the playoffs going on 15 seasons in a row. Just like the Bills will get respect when they start winning, the columnists (who are paid to write their opinion) will begin to give them some credit when it happens. Because Russ and the Doug's have delivered jack in 2 seasons while they were in charge. The Bills also haven't earned much trust from the media in recent years, talking a mean game and then delivering practically nothing. If a Bills fan doesn't believe management, it's not that fan's fault. It's the team's. Meanwhile, Indianapolis is headed to their third straight post-season. So Kravitz probably can't be as pointed as Sullivan is.

Nearly every time the Bills needed to make a statement this season they fell flat. Losses Week 3 versus SD, Week 6 versus NE, Week 10 versus KC, Week 11 at MIA, Week 14 at DEN. One might include the Detroit and Cleveland games, but that's a pretty poor showing to win only 2 of 7 big games.

I feel like at anytime in this thread Todd O'Connor from the Superfans will interject and make a prediction that the Packers will score negative 3 points because "Marrone will find a way."

Would it be only appropriate then to judge GM's who can't get decent starting QBs or offensive linemen?

I said that Brandon gets more face-time than the GM (of Football). The front office is screwed up regardless of how much press time the GM is made available for. No one's been more wrong on this board in recent memory than you. And no one keeps defending this team more fervently than you do. Who did hire Marrone? Was it Nix? The guy being eased into retirement in early 2013? Or was it the Assistant GM, ostensibly being groomed for the position at that time? Or was it the recently "empowered" Russ Brandon who took to the microphone at Marrone's intro PC to tell the world what the team had decided on. If you read between the lines, it's clear Brandon was the biggest vote in the aforementioned triumvirate of 3. People believe whatever Russ Brandon tells them to. Where he gets credibility is beyond me, given his penchant for promising so much and delivering so little.

When did 2 years of Whaley (and 3 with Nix) become overnight? I suppose if they play to earn a paycheck, make the fans feel all warm and fuzzy, and lose close games they've appealed quite well to some. I tend to believe it's somewhat important to win as quickly as possible. The Cardinals have stunk, got better (under Kurt Warner) stunk, and now are the top seed in the NFC. Yet it's acceptable for the Bills to bumble along to another non-playoff season.

The GM admitted it was a win-now season. Why does that change now? I could understand if the Bills had an elite or very good QB who was injured early on and replaced with a backup. Look at the Cardinals. Playing in a tough division with the defending champs, they've lost their QB and still managed to beat KC at home yesterday. At 10-3, they're probably in the playoffs barring something absurd happening. How did they do it? 15 years of no playoffs. The longest streak since the playoff format was changed in 1990. If the GM says they have to make the playoffs and don't, how that's acceptable to fans is beyond me. BTW, Buffalo's wins have come against teams with a combined 38-53 record. Nothing says mediocre like beating up bad to average teams and then getting spaked on the road and at home by the better clubs, whose combined record is 49-29.

Not looking to pick a fight here, but I'm not sure Whaley is as highly regarded around the league as you note. The trade for Watkins, the selection of Manuel (despite what some suits say) and clumsily handling the QB position make me think his talent evaluation is mediocre. He's been a part of this team for going on 5 years and in that time the Bills are 28-49. Certainly not all of that is his fault, as Nix's disastrous decisions impact this team, but there's still major personnel decisions he's gotten wrong.

The problems are larger than the coaching staff. It's the people hiring the coaches and the GM's who need to be escorted out and then replaced by competent types. I recognize that's hard for much of the fan base to understand, as personnel executives are infrequently seen or address the media. I can't remember the last time I've seen Doug Whaley speak in public, although Brandon's always find himself in front of the camera. That said, it's time for things to be re-structured at the top. The coaches are a symptom of the dysfunction, not the disease itself.

Quick question: Who in their respective roles is more successful? WR Mike Williams formerly of TB who entered 2014 with 215 receptions, 2947 yards and 25 TD's? Or Doug Marrone, 13-15 as a NFL HC? It was the Bills GM who made that trade, ostensibly without Marrone's input or direct conflict with the move. What does it say about a personnel department who acquires players the HC doesn't like?