BillsVet

The only starring thing with Whaley was a propensity to forward x-rated material. I always thought Shawne Merriman built the Bills with his incredible recruiting skills anyway.

Michael Jasper has the same chance to QB a team to the SB. And that's taking into account whatever team he plays for hides him on the practice squad as a DT.

The fastest way to being a playoff-caliber team is to get the QB. I think that point has been lost or diluted over the years as the Bills have struggled to find a capable starter. Instead, the rebuilding concept has been to only get the QB after all the other pieces, offensive and defensive, were in order. The issue remains that, in the UFA era, teams just can't wait around for all of the roster to be in place before you get the QB. You've got a narrow window to get enough pieces in place, and it begins with the QB. Besides, I keep hearing this narrative that you don't take a player unless there's a guarantee. I'm not clear where this came from, because no single draft pick is a guarantee. Who cares if you sit on 2 QB prospects. They didn't have huge pressing needs everywhere, or, at least that's what we've been told. Positional value being what it is, you don't lose much on a team like this taking another QB if one guy is struggling.

1) This is exactly where the Bills have been wrong on QB development across the tenures of multiple GM's. Go with one guy until it's obvious he's not good enough, then begin the "Find a QB Now" process anew. By that point it's too late and you're losing time in your rebuild. I read people here saying you've got to give QB's more time, but if you wait 3 years and the guy doesn't have it, you've got nothing in the pipeline save for journeymen veterans. Besides, the game's changed tremendously in the past 10 years. The way DB's are restricted combined with roughing the passer penalties make it that much easier for young QB's to succeed. It's not the NFL of 2003 when Cincinnati had Carson Palmer sit for an entire season. If Buffalo had taken someone in 2014, it would serve the purpose of pushing EJ harder. And if EJ didn't work out, you've started down the path of developing a young guy. If EJ had worked out, then the younger guy could be used in a trade. They've coddled him and that ended when Marrone removed him after the disastrous Houston game in Week 4.

Guarantee? The only guarantees are death and taxes. But rather than answer your trap question, I'll ask you this: How do you obtain a franchise QB if you make one attempt in 3 years to draft one? And your predecessor didn't take one in that time frame either. Then again, draft picks aren't guarantees, so we should wait until we get a high enough pick to take the most sure thing.

In this era of offensive football, what has a NFL GM done if, after 3 off-seasons of rebuilding, he hasn't identified a franchise QB? I know I'm in the minority who aren't enamored with Whaley. He just doesn't seem like this great GM who's ahead of the curve, and it's not just his selection of Manuel or addressing the subsequent issue at QB with journeymen. I will grant that he didn't hire the previous HC or that he inherited a great situation from Blundering Buddy. As much as 2015 is make or break for Manuel, it's almost to that degree with Whaley. He's been given a better HC, resources to acquire better talent, and had 3 drafts to mine talent. If they don't win this year I, it's time to look for a replacement. Especially considering he's been with the organization for 5+ seasons now.

Well, the grand vision behind trading up last year was so that the QB with a shotgun arm (with a full choke) would have help from his receivers. I hope Cassel is better than Orton. If not, it's not going to be fun if they get behind early.

This thread is proof that now is the time for some posters to stop starting 10+ threads a day.

It's ironic that in the past 5 drafts (2011-2015) Buffalo chose not to take anyone in 3 QB rich draft classes (2011, 12, 14) took what looks like a bust one year (2013) and decided against one in a very poor QB draft (2015). One thing is evident: that teams who are aggressive in pursuing the improvement of the position get their guy more often than a team that waits for the draft or a given player to come to them.

I always wonder about players Ozzie Newsome lets go for nothing. He's one of the best in the business for a reason.

Earlier this off-season Whaley erred in using the word "blame" to describe the drafting of Manuel and part of me wonders if they're gun-shy after that decision. QB's typically define the success or failure of a GM's tenure, but not taking one affords a personnel guy more time. This wasn't a draft that'll go down for QB depth in the later rounds, IMO, but we do know not taking a shot means you're guaranteed to fail. The fan spin-doctors can do their usual thing of conflating the issue and protecting OBD, but neither Whaley nor Nix have figured out the position. Worse, they've only taken one swing and it's looking more and more like a bust.

Littmann as the capologist? Wasn't that Overdorf's responsibility or are you saying that Littmann's presence made him the de facto capologist? I'm not clear by the term "legitimate" when you reference Nix. Had he been a scout previously unlike his predecessor who went from ticket seller to marketing lead? Sure. But Nix didn't devise an overall strategy to rebuilding a football team as evidenced by where the team was in 2013. He badly miscalculated on the QB position, switched to a defense he spent several high picks and UFA dollars to build which (and people can blame the coaching here as well) was not very good by the end of 2012. This despite the resources devoted on that side of the ball. The Bills are still looking for a QB! Nix is also the same guy who chose to begin a major rebuild by taking a RB with his first draft pick. If this was 1973, sure I can see that mind-set. And I'm LMAO with this Merriman attracting other key free agents. Players want to 1) get paid and 2) win, usually in that order. Merriman didn't open up the checkbook and he surely didn't help the team win. This false narrative has been manufactured out of nothing. The Pegula's purchasing the team has prompted much needed change. Finally. But Buddy Nix was 20 years behind the curve. You don't have a team go 22-42 and say someone was successful. You can't justify it. I get that fans will never criticize their team or the people running it, but being a fan sometimes conflicts with objectivity.

The moment Nix was named GM? Has Rod Serling returned to life and brought Vincent Price back with him on a special edition of the Twilight Zone? Nix's teams went 16-32 followed by a 6-10. His refusal to find a QB is what's put the Bills where they are today at the position. If anything, the turnaround probably started when the Pegula's took over from Littmann and Brandon, followed by Rex's hire.

I know you can't bring yourself to criticize this team, but doesn't it make you wince that Whaley's 2 main options on Draft Day 2014 were to trade up for Watkins or take Ebron 9th?

I'll never understand how obtaining a talented NFL WR to make up for the QB is viewed as, from a team building perspective, a great move. The idea that drafting Watkins via a trade up to help out Manuel is absurd, but given that EJM was Whaley's pick as well, not surprising. And this was all done in April 2014 when the only QB's on the roster were EJM, Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel. Then again, Whaley was acting in his own interest and the team president wouldn't oppose a move to improve both of their positions. For the record, no one argues with Watkins' talent. The issue is, when allocating resources, why you'd go after receivers as San-O points out, when your OL and QB aren't good.

While this is a plausible scenario, they're more than likely moving on from Manuel. I know some people here think EJM just needs better coaching, but waiting until the 7th round or via UDFA seems implausible considering their depth at the position. They need a prospect and it's not Manuel. EDIT: I'm not saying it's Petty, Grayson, or the other 2nd tier QB's. Just that they're interested given the depth.

Let's not stop at Nix. It's time to give credit to Pat McGroder and Terry Bledsoe for their short GM spans which set up Bill Polian for success. If it wasn't for those two guys, Polian wouldn't have improved the Bills as much as he did.

At some point a great artist cannot rework a painting from another mediocre painter. That's Lee and EJM IMO. Mechanics also tend to break down when under pressure, which is another shortcoming in EJ's game. When he's rattled all the instruction he's received goes out the window. I don't expect him to beat out Cassel for the starting job for 2015.

Meanwhile, Jason Peters was just voted to another All-Pro team and out of the last 7 years he's been on the field, he's been 1st or 2nd team All-Pro every year. The decision not to re-sign Peters is arguably the worse personnel blunder from 2000-2009. And it was in part precipitated by giving lazy Derrick Dockery a massive contract he wasn't worth. Thank goodness the Pegula's bought the team.

Brown certainly improved, but Kiko wasn't expendable because of Brown. Kiko was expendable because he doesn't fit Rex's defense, plain and simple. More specifically, 235# LB's aren't big enough to play the scheme. And I'm sure you'll compare weight of Kiko to Bradham, but that raw data doesn't include the players themselves. Kiko wore down in 2013 and may not be as durable like Brown and Bradham appear to be.

Lot of symbolism, not much substance. It seems like EJ's talked to or worked with every QB who's played in the NFL since 1970. And does this mean he's done with George Whitfield? How many coaches/mentors does this guy need? And will EJ be attending the Manning QB camp now?

The question isn't so much whether EJ needs to improve these pieces of his game, it's whether or not he's improved much at all after his time in the NFL. They worked with him on footwork, release, et al. because that's what he needed work on. If EJ can't improve those fundamentals, he's not going to be a starting QB in the NFL. As for personal QB coaches, well, Brady had one in Tom Martinez and EJ's used George Whitfield Jr. I'm sure others have enlisted this kind of help.

Are you saying that Russ Brandon is bad at making football decisions, specifically on HC's then?

I don't need to see EJ go through another training camp and regular season to know he doesn't have "it." The basics a QB needs to enter the NFL with aren't there, specifically accuracy, touch on passes, an ability to read defenses, throwing receivers open et al. Most people understand EJ was a project, but after 2 off-seasons and regular seasons, there isn't a whole lot of improvement there. People blame that on Marrone and his staff, but it's more than that. But I know there will always be those who will wait until the bitter end before declaring the player incapable of being good. I just don't subscribe to that rationale. This phenomenon occurred with Losman back around 2006-07. People wanted him to succeed, held onto every small success tightly, but ultimately the guy didn't pan out.

This, to me, is the crux of the argument about EJ. He can do things once in awhile, but not consistently enough to ever be a good NFL QB. And I see the blaming of Marrone continues, as if the player was an innocent bystander and his success or failure was predicated primarily on the game plan. Some guys have all the physical attributes you look for but don't have the recognition skills. I think EJ fits into that group, but that probably makes me a "hater."