BillsVet

Outside of Cam Newton (who is 6'6 and 260#) a team needs a pocket passing QB. Tyrod may become that but it's worrisome that he's hurt and it happened on a long scramble. It's difficult to succeed in this league playing your backup 4 games every season. The Bills may be 3-4 and "all this woe" but they're certainly trending down after a debilitating loss in London. The defense is a mess, the starting QB is injured as is their 2014 top pick WR, and internal strife between the GM and HC. 3-4 is extremely underwhelming and doesn't tell the story of where they are at their bye week.

Ironic that Brandon was pretty miffed about Marrone's departure. After all, Mr. Smithers hired him and then tried to act as mediator between his hand-picked HC and the GM he promoted after Nix retired. Russ Brandon owned that situation more than people realize. To think a business/marketing guy was making GMs and hiring HCs. No wonder everything was broken at the end of 2014 when TPegs and KPegs became team owners. Marrone was thin skinned and not suited to being a NFL HC with his demeanor. But he knew they needed a QB and Whaley insisted on Manuel. Jason Cole later reported that people at OBD told Marrone at the end of 2013 that Manuel was never going to get it. https://twitter.com/jasoncolebr/status/503281788920553472

This debate is higher than players on the field. It's about why GM's from 2006-2013 insisted on 1 guy only and didn't push for competition at the game's most crucial spot. What happens on the field is symptomatic of what happens off it during the off-season. You tell me why the Bills didn't pursue options and I'll answer your question about who should have been selected.

The Bills have been, IMO, afraid of QB controversies and they've avoided that for several years. In '09 Brandon went out of his way to say signing Fitzpatrick in free agency was not a challenge to Edwards. And after Edwards was DFA'd after week 3 in the 2010 season, no one was acquired to challenge Fitz for the remainder of his tenure in Buffalo. Manuel was picked in 2013 after Kolb was inexplicably signed to be a speed bump to EJ's ascendance as starter. Only after what I suspect was Marrone's insistence on signing Orton did Whaley agree to terms with the latter. This year, the Bills signed people and held an open competition, which is the result of having a real coaching staff (albeit one that's struggled). Undervaluing, single-mindedness and bad evaluation of QB's has been a common denominator in the decade and a half of fail.

Doug Whaley as GM: 18-21. That's all that matters. And it's not outstanding. Who else bears more responsibility for this mess?

Buffalo still is a middle of the road team. In 2+ seasons they've managed to win about 46% of their games which translates to a 7 win season. Owners don't employ GM's who fail to win and as architect of the roster, Doug Whaley hasn't won games. Fitz looked decent yesterday. Better than EJ will ever be. There are also some young guys who show more upside out there, including the guys you specified.

Do you think that Buddy one day just ambled up to Russ Smithers-Brandon and said he was going to retire? I don't, and suspect that Whaley took on more of a personnel management (i.e. decision making) role in early 2013 leading to his promotion to GM. And that includes (as Dave McB noted) scouting and picking a QB he could feature. Why would the Bills permit Nix to take a QB his successor would have to live and die on? If you do, then we're done here. For what it's worth the Bills probably would have been better off with Fitz, and that guy defines what it means to be a journeyman.

Right. Although, it seems like the trend in Buffalo with Whaley has been for the HC to push for QB options beside EJ. Last year it was the Orton signing at the end of camp and this year Tyrod's acquisition in free agency along with the Cassel trade. It's why I suspect Whaley didn't want competition at QB and dragged his feet with Marrone wanting Orton (although KO probably didn't want to go to a camp) and this year Rex winning out by getting them to sign 2 EJ competitors.

Yes, but as Rico noted, that doesn't seem like a Whaley decision. Such a predictable response. Whenever Buffalo shows their QB situation is poor, we always see this post. Well, as I've noted, OBD has been horrible identifying QB's and when they do, the player has been a bust. There are muliple QB's taken from 2011-2014 in the 2nd and 3rd who are better than Manuel. And they're improving where EJ isn't. Take your pick.

Carr is more evidence that even if you're in "QB Purgatory" you can still acquire a good NFL QB. What's interesting is Reggie McKenzie, who's had his share of bad decisions, drafted a QB and then selected what many considered an elite receiver in Amari Cooper.

The point is personnel managers allowed this franchise, who have been without a decent QB since about 1995, to be backed into a corner necessitating the drafting of a QB in 2013. No decent NFL owner pays millions to personnel people to operate out of desperation so often. It reminds me of having to take a RB early in 2007 and having to take 2 guards high in 2009, or needing an OT in 2012. If there's one common denominator over the 15+ years of failure, it's been either poor evaluation of QBs or an absolute refusal to select them. That's on a GM more than anyone else in an organization.

Again, TPegs did not spend 1.4B and then hand out all those big contracts to have this bad a team. He may not know football but I'd wager that he's going to get eyes on his team in the wake of today's debacle. Who knows, perhaps it's already happened. The book on Whaley is he hasn't found a good QB or really drafted well offensively. At QB, he's signed guys off the street, drafted a guy, traded for guys and nothing worked. And before the predictable excuse makers show up en masse to ask who he should have picked, I would ask this question: Would a billionaire owner trust Doug Whaley who's tried and failed so often to find a good QB? I wouldn't.

EJ was a swing for the fences after the previous GM absolutely refused to take a QB and insisted on going with a guy he inherited. Buffalo was backed into a corner and therefore were desperate because the only other QB on the roster was Kevin Kolb. In 2006 people on this board were heralding Marv's first draft class because so many rookies started. Except, they had to play when the other options weren't good. Rookies starting out of need isn't proof a GM knows what he's doing. Don't we have to give rookies 2-3 seasons anyway before evaluating them? Doug Whaley has alienated 2 coaching staffs. Do you want that guy picking players for you? Maybe just maybe he is a rogue who's doing things on his own. The evidence is building to support that.

I really don't care what the predictable homers have to say in this thread. No one invests 1.4B into a NFL franchise and watches what happened today without thinking there'll be changes. The owner isn't an unbridled homer who merely can't criticize his team. Matt Cassel does not gift-wrap 21 points to possibly the worst defense in the NFL. Matt Cassel does not throw balls in the dirt to Robert Woods 7 yards downfield. Matt Cassel is not the guy a Jags defense knows and tells announcers cannot go through progressions. But Matt Cassel is not Doug Whaley's pick and therefore is expendable. This entire season was about winning now. All the spending, the Rex hire, everything. But then Doug Whaley traded someone for a future draft pick and it was about EJ's ceiling? No, this was about Doug Whaley trying to survive. If there's one positive coming out of this game, it'll be that Doug Whaley's handling of the QB position and subsequent doubling down on Manuel will indeed get him fired. Pegula hasn't hired nor extended him. We're going to look back on 2010-15 (the current rebuild) years and realize how utterly horrible Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley were.

This coming from a guy who said he played "solid" last week. He's delusional because he's been told for so long (probably HS) that his sh** doesn't stink. Maybe when he's out of the NFL next season reality will hit him. Right now he's in fantasy world after that performance.

They're used to it

If EJ played "solid" in his words last week, I wonder what today's performance merits.

They're playing arguably the league's worst team. Defense should dominate.

Glad Whaley is finally going in front of the assembled media. It's been awhile.

No one alone can win a football game. But what's interesting about all of these players you mention is they either were acquired in free agency or they had to trade up in the draft. And it's why I continue to believe Whaley and his predecessor aren't/weren't adept at drafting offensive players. If they were, Buffalo wouldn't have had to go on the spending spree they did this past off-season. The best teams in the NFL are winning with predominantly home-grown rosters. New England, Green Bay, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh all draft well consistently. In Buffalo they're buying RBs, WRs, TEs (haven't drafted one in rounds 1-3 since Kevin Everett 10 years ago), and refuse to draft a QB unless their collective back is against the wall. Doug Whaley and Bumbling Buddy added a lot of defenders since they arrived in 2010. It's still not the way to build a team suited for winning in the modern NFL. Nor is buying your talent when the drafts don't yield talent, especially on offense.

Star RBs aren't necessary though. The year Chris Johnson ran for 2k yards and 2500 total the Titans failed to make the playoffs. The year Adrian Peterson ran for 2k Minnesota was a 6 seed. No one in the NFL is emphasizing the running game to the point it demands "star level RBs."

A 3 down LB who has some coverage skills is more valuable than a RB...even if they're earning the same pay. There's a lot more involved in a comparison, but positional value being what it is, there are plenty of above average replacement level RBs. There just aren't as many 3 down LBs.

The man, in all likelihood, would have been there later. For so many years it was the Bills standing pat and letting the draft come to them. And those picks were usually made rapidly when it came their turn. Those were some dark days. Good read though.

They sure play like it regardless of talent. Losing to the top teams and winning versus the lesser talents. Playing down to the competition and unable to win consecutive games. I'll give it more time though.

Back in '08 Buffalo started off 5-1 only to finish 7-9. At one point, the team was 6-5 and people were still saying the Bills were in good shape. Unfortunately, Buffalo was trending down, but some wanted to rationalize that being 6-5 was good enough. A cloudy playoff picture though left them on the outside looking in for the post-season. The point is, has the current team fought their way to 3-3 or just fallen backward into it? Are they trending up or down? I'd say they're back to the Bills of the Jauron years, albeit with more talent. They've defeated the bad to mediocre teams and lost to the good ones. After the Thursday Night 11/12 game at the Jets I would hope they're 6-3 and playing lights out. Anything less and the playoffs are still a huge question.