BillsVet

He's had 3 off-seasons, had a significant budget to work with, traded up for a highly-touted WR, and had 3 drafts total. Not to mention inherited some talent. He could make the case he didn't get to hire a HC. Yet, the new ownership hasn't extended him and I find this very telling. What else would they be doing if not evaluating him? And if they're doing that, none of the things that you mention really matter because they didn't hire him. And yes, Whaley looks good compared to two non personnel types (Brandon and Marv) and one guy who was over his head (Nix) who were Bills GM's in the past 10 seasons. Doesn't mean he's that good either. There's nothing then that I can offer any further. They are judged on wins and losses. We'll have to agree to disagree.

There is such a thing as good change. And then there is bad change, which the Bills have made a habit of doing for several years. At GM the names Levy, Brandon, Nix, and Whaley bear that out. Espeically when combined with the HC decisions and some of their coordinator selections.

Yes, they are better since he assumed the GM role. But is it enough? Look, I'm not trying to be contentious with you. They won 6 games in 2013, 9 (or 8 to some) last year and that's progress. I just don't think they're moving fast enough, considering player shelf life and contracts. 3 years might seem short, but that's usually all a GM or HC gets these days to get into the playoffs.

Sweat doesn't count, but results do. And despite an increase in talent, they're still only 18-21 in Whaley's 3+ seasons as GM. That sort of track record in a major market gets you fired. Speaking of the increase in talent, this narrative always appears whenever Whaley is questioned. It's really just sophistry. The starting roster has been improved significantly through free agency with guys like Mario, Clay, Graham, and Incognito. And they signed their eventual starting QB in UFA as well, not to mention acquired a starting RB via trade of another Whaley draft pick, prompting a large contract extension. The more a team dips into the free agent market the less adept they've been drafting. And only about half of the current starters was acquired via the draft while Whaley was assistant GM or GM.

Unbelievable this needs to be explained. It's not fan heresy to criticize the team. Never has been. Never will be. Meanwhile, the latest rebuild undertaken in 2010 is into its 6th season. This after 2 previous rebuilds this millennium. During these 3 rebuilds the team has won fewer than 40% of their games. Right now I'd be satisfied with a 10 win season and a first round exit in the playoffs. I guess that's expecting too much for the franchise.

It's not like the level of GM's Buffalo's had since Butler has been stellar. But we've come full circle. Donahoe was more about proving himself after Pittsburgh bounced him. Marv and Brandon had no business in the job. Nix was a scout masquerading as a GM and never developed a plan. Either way, Whaley is the nominal architect of the team, but he wasn't hired by the Pegulas. I've heard nothing that the Pegulas are trying to extend him either. But I'd wager that if Whaley was DFA'd, the Pegulas would have someone help them find a suitable replacement. EDIT: OP...not sure signs are in order. But agree the head football guy should be held accountable regardless of injuries, and at this point, the HC's decisions. Forcing a QB like EJ the staff didn't want is not a solid decision.

Not really interested in hypotheticals at this point. My point earlier was that Wilson has been, despite his style of play, durable. Tyrod has not been that. At least not yet. The other concept lost on this board is that as teams get tape on Buffalo, they typically aren't able to match early season results. And that goes for both individual players and sides of the ball. I certainly hope Taylor returns and continues to play well, but it'll be the mark of how much he improves and how the staff game-plans around their weaknesses. If we're talking statistics, Taylor's play fell off since the Week 1 win. His yards per attempt fell from 10.3 in week 1 to 6.4 and to me that is one of the more defining metric of how well a QB is playing.

I figured this rationale was forthcoming. Aaron Rodgers watched 3 seasons from the sidelines in Green bay. In his "rookie season" of 2008 he threw for 4k+ yards with 28 TD passes versus 13 INT. That said, I see some good things from Tyrod that he can build on. I just am not ready, given what the team has invested all over the field, to give him an out in the event things continue sliding downhill this season.

You're seriously comparing Russell Wilson to Tyrod Taylor? That's an extremely poor conflation, but I'll play along. Wilson (who hasn't missed a game since his rookie year) has 24 games of less than 200 yards passing out of 63 starts. 15 of those occurred during his rookie or 2nd year, although Seattle is 17-7 in those games. This includes playoffs. I don't consider Wilson an elite QB on par with Rodgers or Brady. But he's certainly very good.

I'm not sure he's demonstrated he can make every throw...consistently. He was 10-17 in the Tennessee game for 109 yards, which is a stat line QB's who can "make all the throws" rarely if ever have, especially against a low ranked defense. What is telling about a QB, and there are glimpses with Taylor, is that he's improving reading defenses and therefore being able to throw receivers open. I like that. That said, I feel more comfortable with him now than I did with EJ after the latter self-destructed in London. If EJ plays that way against arguably the worst team in the NFL, Buffalo has no shot against better teams.

Outside of Cam Newton (who is 6'6 and 260#) a team needs a pocket passing QB. Tyrod may become that but it's worrisome that he's hurt and it happened on a long scramble. It's difficult to succeed in this league playing your backup 4 games every season. The Bills may be 3-4 and "all this woe" but they're certainly trending down after a debilitating loss in London. The defense is a mess, the starting QB is injured as is their 2014 top pick WR, and internal strife between the GM and HC. 3-4 is extremely underwhelming and doesn't tell the story of where they are at their bye week.

Ironic that Brandon was pretty miffed about Marrone's departure. After all, Mr. Smithers hired him and then tried to act as mediator between his hand-picked HC and the GM he promoted after Nix retired. Russ Brandon owned that situation more than people realize. To think a business/marketing guy was making GMs and hiring HCs. No wonder everything was broken at the end of 2014 when TPegs and KPegs became team owners. Marrone was thin skinned and not suited to being a NFL HC with his demeanor. But he knew they needed a QB and Whaley insisted on Manuel. Jason Cole later reported that people at OBD told Marrone at the end of 2013 that Manuel was never going to get it. https://twitter.com/jasoncolebr/status/503281788920553472

This debate is higher than players on the field. It's about why GM's from 2006-2013 insisted on 1 guy only and didn't push for competition at the game's most crucial spot. What happens on the field is symptomatic of what happens off it during the off-season. You tell me why the Bills didn't pursue options and I'll answer your question about who should have been selected.

The Bills have been, IMO, afraid of QB controversies and they've avoided that for several years. In '09 Brandon went out of his way to say signing Fitzpatrick in free agency was not a challenge to Edwards. And after Edwards was DFA'd after week 3 in the 2010 season, no one was acquired to challenge Fitz for the remainder of his tenure in Buffalo. Manuel was picked in 2013 after Kolb was inexplicably signed to be a speed bump to EJ's ascendance as starter. Only after what I suspect was Marrone's insistence on signing Orton did Whaley agree to terms with the latter. This year, the Bills signed people and held an open competition, which is the result of having a real coaching staff (albeit one that's struggled). Undervaluing, single-mindedness and bad evaluation of QB's has been a common denominator in the decade and a half of fail.

Doug Whaley as GM: 18-21. That's all that matters. And it's not outstanding. Who else bears more responsibility for this mess?

Buffalo still is a middle of the road team. In 2+ seasons they've managed to win about 46% of their games which translates to a 7 win season. Owners don't employ GM's who fail to win and as architect of the roster, Doug Whaley hasn't won games. Fitz looked decent yesterday. Better than EJ will ever be. There are also some young guys who show more upside out there, including the guys you specified.

Do you think that Buddy one day just ambled up to Russ Smithers-Brandon and said he was going to retire? I don't, and suspect that Whaley took on more of a personnel management (i.e. decision making) role in early 2013 leading to his promotion to GM. And that includes (as Dave McB noted) scouting and picking a QB he could feature. Why would the Bills permit Nix to take a QB his successor would have to live and die on? If you do, then we're done here. For what it's worth the Bills probably would have been better off with Fitz, and that guy defines what it means to be a journeyman.

Right. Although, it seems like the trend in Buffalo with Whaley has been for the HC to push for QB options beside EJ. Last year it was the Orton signing at the end of camp and this year Tyrod's acquisition in free agency along with the Cassel trade. It's why I suspect Whaley didn't want competition at QB and dragged his feet with Marrone wanting Orton (although KO probably didn't want to go to a camp) and this year Rex winning out by getting them to sign 2 EJ competitors.

Yes, but as Rico noted, that doesn't seem like a Whaley decision. Such a predictable response. Whenever Buffalo shows their QB situation is poor, we always see this post. Well, as I've noted, OBD has been horrible identifying QB's and when they do, the player has been a bust. There are muliple QB's taken from 2011-2014 in the 2nd and 3rd who are better than Manuel. And they're improving where EJ isn't. Take your pick.

Carr is more evidence that even if you're in "QB Purgatory" you can still acquire a good NFL QB. What's interesting is Reggie McKenzie, who's had his share of bad decisions, drafted a QB and then selected what many considered an elite receiver in Amari Cooper.

The point is personnel managers allowed this franchise, who have been without a decent QB since about 1995, to be backed into a corner necessitating the drafting of a QB in 2013. No decent NFL owner pays millions to personnel people to operate out of desperation so often. It reminds me of having to take a RB early in 2007 and having to take 2 guards high in 2009, or needing an OT in 2012. If there's one common denominator over the 15+ years of failure, it's been either poor evaluation of QBs or an absolute refusal to select them. That's on a GM more than anyone else in an organization.

Again, TPegs did not spend 1.4B and then hand out all those big contracts to have this bad a team. He may not know football but I'd wager that he's going to get eyes on his team in the wake of today's debacle. Who knows, perhaps it's already happened. The book on Whaley is he hasn't found a good QB or really drafted well offensively. At QB, he's signed guys off the street, drafted a guy, traded for guys and nothing worked. And before the predictable excuse makers show up en masse to ask who he should have picked, I would ask this question: Would a billionaire owner trust Doug Whaley who's tried and failed so often to find a good QB? I wouldn't.

EJ was a swing for the fences after the previous GM absolutely refused to take a QB and insisted on going with a guy he inherited. Buffalo was backed into a corner and therefore were desperate because the only other QB on the roster was Kevin Kolb. In 2006 people on this board were heralding Marv's first draft class because so many rookies started. Except, they had to play when the other options weren't good. Rookies starting out of need isn't proof a GM knows what he's doing. Don't we have to give rookies 2-3 seasons anyway before evaluating them? Doug Whaley has alienated 2 coaching staffs. Do you want that guy picking players for you? Maybe just maybe he is a rogue who's doing things on his own. The evidence is building to support that.

I really don't care what the predictable homers have to say in this thread. No one invests 1.4B into a NFL franchise and watches what happened today without thinking there'll be changes. The owner isn't an unbridled homer who merely can't criticize his team. Matt Cassel does not gift-wrap 21 points to possibly the worst defense in the NFL. Matt Cassel does not throw balls in the dirt to Robert Woods 7 yards downfield. Matt Cassel is not the guy a Jags defense knows and tells announcers cannot go through progressions. But Matt Cassel is not Doug Whaley's pick and therefore is expendable. This entire season was about winning now. All the spending, the Rex hire, everything. But then Doug Whaley traded someone for a future draft pick and it was about EJ's ceiling? No, this was about Doug Whaley trying to survive. If there's one positive coming out of this game, it'll be that Doug Whaley's handling of the QB position and subsequent doubling down on Manuel will indeed get him fired. Pegula hasn't hired nor extended him. We're going to look back on 2010-15 (the current rebuild) years and realize how utterly horrible Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley were.

This coming from a guy who said he played "solid" last week. He's delusional because he's been told for so long (probably HS) that his sh** doesn't stink. Maybe when he's out of the NFL next season reality will hit him. Right now he's in fantasy world after that performance.