Dr. K

They tazed him becaused they lost their tempers, because he did not do what they wanted as fast as they wanted it, because they represent authority and he is just some brown-skinned !@#$ who didn't have an ID card and was therfore clearly in the wrong. They did it because he shouted out about the Patriot Act and they probably considered that prima facie evidence that he was a terrorist or at least disloyal to the United States or at least somebody they did not have to respect. They did it because after they tazed him the first time, he did not get up on their comands to stand up, not caring whether he was physically capable of standing up and despite his protests that he was going to leave. They did it because by that time the thing was out of control and they could not back down. They did it because the crowd of other students was against them,and they felt themselves outnumberd and did not want to lose face by changing their course and it only made them madder at this !@#$ brown guy for putting them in a situation where they will look bad. Is that enough reasons for you? These are completely human and understandable reasons, and all of them are not enough to justify their behavior, in my opinion. I agree with Bart that we have gotten to a point where we are just talking past each other, so I will stop now. I already said that in 90% of these cases, my sympathies lie with the police, who have a hard job to do. I just wish the U.S. weren't so full of people who think the way you do. I'm sure you feel the same way about me.

Your evidence for a conspiracy by the video maker to embarrass the police is non-existent. I am going by the video and the news reports (which apparently you also see as part of some conspiracy). So all the witnesses who say the cops were out of line were wrong. And the evidence of the video itself is not relevant. "You !@#$ with the cops and you're probably in for a beating" is exactly what's wrong with this whole thing."

You keep saying he refused to budge but there is NO EVIDENCE of that. All the resports of witnesses say he was going. On the tape itself he says he is going, and they keep tasing him becasue he can't stand up. Could YOU stand up if you were beeing hit with 30,000 volts every thirty seconds? All this crap about the cops being in harm's way is also just crap. Not one report of this incident ever says the cops were in harm's way. They certainly were not in harm's way when the guy was on the ground, shocke,d and cuffed. You don't care, whatever the cops do is okay with you.

In logic, this is called the argument from ignorance, and is a common fallacy. Neither you nor I know whether there is a china teapot orbiting the sun in the same orbit as the earth. That is not an argument for the existence of this teapot. Your belief in the teapot does not make it real. Conspiracy theorists love the argument from ignorance.

What do you think makes a bad cop? I don't think it's intention to do bad things. I will bet you a dollar that every bad cop thinks he is a good cop. It's human nature. Just like every bad auto mechanic, or teacher, or lawyer thinks he is a good auto mechanic, teacher, or lawyer.

"Who had the camera and why?" You may consider me an idiot, but you are a lunatic. Seen any black helicopters lately?

Do you really think this? That the kid wanted to get tased? Did you watch the video? I don't believe this.

Cops should never let their anger, no matter how justified it may be, control their actions. We give them life-or-death power over us with the expectation that they will use it responsibly. Everyone is human, but this is a job that requires the utmost professionalism and good judgment. Cops should behave better than an angry kid in a universtiy library who's pissed off because he thinks he's being racially profiled.

I see where you stand. We have different ideas of what constitutes reasonable police behavior. I think they thought they were justified in tasing him, but they were criminally stupid or pissed because he gave them a hard time. You should pray that you are never in the hands of an angry cop.

Ruima was the bathroom incident. Dialo was the unarmed guy shot 44 times by one of those special crime squads.

So why do they keep tasing him while he's on the ground and helpless? In handcuffs? This is the definition of unwarranted force. I don't care if the cops felt provoked. I don't care if they got mad. The job of a cop in this situation is not to GET mad. He's supposed to keep his wits about him and be a PEACE KEEPER. These guys should be fired, and I hope they are.

I begin to suspect your 99% support for the police should be 100%. Can you give me an example of an incident where you DID NOT side with the cops? How about the Dialo incident in NYC?

Witnesses said the guy was already leaving when the cops grabbed him. He repeatedly screams that he's leaving and they keep tasing him, even after the have him in handcuffs. Did you watch the video? The people watching did not think he was a hero for standing up to the cops. They were astonished at the unnecessary force the cops used on a guy writhing in pain on the floor. He was completely "under control." The cops were the ones who were out of control.

So what does it take to get you NOT to side with the cops? Did you side with the cops on the Rodney King incident, for instance?

He was cuffed because he didn't stand up after they tasered him repeatedly. Did you watch the video? You think this use of force was warranted in this situation? In every confrontation between a cop and a citizen, do you side with the cop? I do in 95% of the situations. But not all of them.

Exactly. When you take on the job of being a police officer, you also take on the responsibility of acting more rationally than the people you are likely to be dealing with. You have to legal right to use force, and so you better be damned careful that the force you use is warranted. This guy was an American college student of Iranian descent, born and raised in the USA. A U.S. citizen. I don't know what the circumstances were exactly before the cops arrived, but I just wonder, when the security in the library came around to check IDs, were they checking everybody in the study room or did they single him out (perhaps as one of several)? Somebody in this guy's situation has already probably been hassled for years about his descent, his name, his skin color. It's very likely he had a short fuse about being singled out, and did not react well. He probably should have reacted more calmly. NONE of this justifies the cops' actions, in my opinion. Cops have a terribly hard job, but these cops reacted like a gang protecting their turf, not like representatives of the state. Not the first time this has happened, and it won't be the last. Thank God for video cameras.

"Resisting the cops"? According to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

There never has been a lack of Good Germans on this board.

Sorry, Ed's right. It's called double jeopardy. Double indemnity is an insurance term, where the payoff your beneficiaries get if you die is doubled if you die under particular (and rare) circumstances.

It's not the law, it's the Constitution, the fifth amendment. And a good thing, too--otherwise the state could just retry anyone they didn't like over and over again until they got a conviction. Though in this case it leads to a murderer going free. But the world is full of murderers walking free.

....begins Sunday. Put it in the bank.

Great post! Says it all.

I notice that although the people who want to bench Losman are vastly outnumbered among voters on this board, they are by far more certain of their opinions and loudmouthed about them.

I should have known this would turn into a thread about Losman.

THIS IS NOT A POST ABOUT JP LOSMAN. Before the season started I had a back-and-forth on this board with someone who called Rivers a "bust." I took issue with this on the grounds that he had only played in one game before this season, so how could he be a bust, but also that he had been one of the most amazing QBs I had ever seen while in college, gutsy and smart, and I would believe he would make it in the pros until he proved me wrong. The Chargers come from 21-0 and 28-7 deficits to win 49-41 today. In this season of our discontent I have to say that it gives me pleasure that Rivers is doing so well for the them. THAT'S ALL. YOU MAY RESUME YOUR BITCHING, ALREADY IN PROGRESS.