Dr. K

Yup

Yup Yup

I agree. But these guys are inflexible about their schemes and fitting players into them, or dumping them. Look at what they already have done to degrade the offensive line.

I wonder who made that Alonzo for Shady deal? Was it the same guy who traded down on draft day to get an extra second round pick that he used to draft Alonzo in the first place?

LOTS of people on this board are or were saying Whaley was worthless.

Here is a list of some of the players that Whaley acquired through the draft, trade, or free agency that the Bills have gotten rid of that all you McBeane lovers seem to think are worthless. Most of them will be starting for other teams: Sammy Watkins Mike Gillislee Ron Darby Robert Woods Cyrus Koundjio Stephon Gilmore Chris Hogan Kiko Alonzo Among other players Whaley acquired who are still on the team: Preston Brown Jerry Hughes LeSean McCoy Charles Clay Richie Incognito Tyrod Taylor Yes, Whaley whiffed on his attempt of drafting a QB with EJ Manuel. Yes, some of his other draft picks did not pan out. But the failures of the last two years are much more the responsibility of Rex Ryan, and the Pegulas who hired him and gave him as much if not more power than Whaley, though Whaley is also responsible. I thought hiring Rex was a bad idea at the time and said so back then: it meant that Schwartz would be forced out; I would rather have seen them keep Schwartz and hire an offense-minded HC, as Whaley apparently was inclined to do before the Pegulas met Rex and his bottle of red wine. And Whaley is not being given credit for his being able to spot talented street free agents like Gillislee and under-the-radar players like Hogan. The housecleaning that Freebie and the Beane are orchestrating--not of aging veterans but of good young players--does not inspire any confidence in me that they know what they are doing. Yes, they now have a pile of draft picks. But they also ditched the scouting system, and I actually thought the previous scouts were good at their job of finding talented players--who knows about the new guys they put in place? We'll see what McBeane bring us. I am not sanguine about it.

I think it's funny that all five of these players--Watkins, Kuandjio, Darby, Miller, and Williams--played better than the guys they are currently being replaced by. Whaley never got to pick the head coach he wanted. He did his best to supply the players that Rex--the disastrous HC the Pegulas salivated over--wanted. But according to you guys Whaley was the problem.

I agree with this. They saved the team for Buffalo, but their personnel and management decisions have been terrible.

Rex forced Schwartz out the door. Rex was insisting they use his system and he would call the shots. It was impossible for Schwartz to work under him in that situation--Rex wanted to change the defense.

Repost from another thread: Last night was the first time I saw them play at length. This team will be lucky to win five games. The defense looks better (it could not look worse than Rex's) but the offense will score 8-10 points less per game than last year. Their scheme change on offense has turned a great running team into a trash fire. I lay it at the feet of the Pegulas. Hiring Rex Ryan was just about the worst thing they could possibly have done when they took over. I don't have any faith in their hand-chosen coach and GM. This team was on the brink of making a leap forward when Marone quit. If they had let Whaley keep Schwartz and his scheme, hire Hue Jackson or one of the other offense-minded head coaching candidates who were willing to work with Schwartz and his crew, this team would have been in the playoffs the last two seasons. Instead they are trading away or otherwise losing their best players and headed for a top-ten draft pick.

Last night was the first time I saw them play at length. This team will be lucky to win five games. The defense looks better (it could not look worse than Rex's) but the offense will score 8-10 points less per game than last year. Their scheme change on offense has turned a great running team into a trash fire. I lay it at the feet of the Pegulas. Hiring Rex Ryan was just about the worst thing they could possibly have done when they took over. I don't have any faith in their hand-chosen coach and GM. This team was on the brink of making a leap forward when Marone quit. If they had let Whaley keep Schwartz and his scheme, hire Hue Jackson or one of the other offense-minded head coaching candidates who were willing to work with Schwartz and his crew, this team would have been in the playoffs the last two seasons. Instead they are trading away or otherwise losing their best players and headed for a top-ten draft pick. You expect a turnaround? We'll see. Whaley wanted to hire Lynn as Head Coach and then pick a new D.C. It would have been a better way to go.

You are all going to regret trashing Whaley at every opportunity. From the admittedly small evidence so far, he had a much better eye for talent than Beane and McDermott.

My simple position is that you don't make a team better by getting rid of players like Watkins and Darby. You make them better by keeping guys like that. I agree with King that the Bills need stability and for better or worse the Pegulas have to stick with the current GM and coach for a while. But they got themselves into this position by not trusting Whaley--for better or worse--to select the coach and control the roster. Hiring Rex was a disaster, and having a division of authority between him and Whaley was a prescription for trouble. Unlike so many others on this board, I think Whaley did a lot of things right and failed more because of lack of support from the owners than from mistakes he made (and he made several). That's water under the bridge. I hope that, having blown up the team, McDermott and Beane will be able to put a good team together with the resources they have. I am not convinced that they will but will give them the benefit of the doubt. But if Watkins goes on to have a Hall of Fame career, which I think it possible, I will not hesitate to say I told you so.

Exactly. Everybody is assuming the Bills are going to draft Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers when they much more likely to get Tannehill or Dalton or Alex Smith, or even more likely Tim Couch or JaMarcus Russell. I am one of the few who wishes that they had let Whaley run the team and pick the head coach. I think the outcome would have been much better for this team. Maybe this will all work out but I am skeptical.

Love it.

I agree. It really bothers me that Whaley never got to pick his head coach, yet he was judged for the lousy job that Rex, in particular, did with the talent he assembled.

I also hate these trades. Seems like terrible judgment to me, but obviously B & M think they are the smartest guys in the room. Like my sign-off quote says, "The human mind is not a dignified organ."

I have no trust in these guys. It's all on them, whatever happens this year. I guess this is what you mean when you all for "blowing things up."

After these moves today, I absolutely do not trust these guys. All you guys who bitched and moaned about how bad a GM Whaley was? I think we are going to look back fondly on the personnel decisions in the Whaley era.

This is my experience as well. I've lived in the South for thirty five years.

I expect Brown to look much better now that he won't have to play in Rex's defense, for which he was not suited. Look at the player he was in his rookie year.

Anderson deliberately missed every field goal he attempted in pre-season in order to force the Bills to cut him. It was a pleasure to see him miss his only field goal of the season in the 1998 NFC title game against Atlanta, which cost Minnesota the game and a trip to the Super Bowl. That was Karma, baby! http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000497721/Gary-Anderson-misses-field-goal

Terrible, terrible idea. Would convince me that the new regime is brain dead.

My feelings precisely

You obviously were not around here back then. Wade was treated like a punching bag over a lot of trivial BS (and a few serious issues). They used to scream at him (I'm not kidding) for not wearing headphones on the sidelines. Losing to Miami and Tennessee in the playoffs was inexcusable to a lot of fans then. Butler was run out of town for standing up to Ralph (and for his terrible 2000 draft). Bills fans did not realize how good they had it.