Koufax

I'm very disappointed as June was a guy I really would have liked (although was watching some missed tackles on an ESPN bit about the Colts and their run D). I think the money paid out wasn't unreasonable, and I think I would have rather had June than Walker (apples and oranges, but both cost dollars). But now that he is a Buc, we have Ellison-Crowell-Spikes and I think that LB becomes a bigger priority than CB in the draft. I'm definitely on the Willis band wagon at this point, but I have a feeling it won't work out that way, and we will likely end up with somebody like Posluszny with our second pick trading up. Personally I'd love to see Willis #12, the best back in the second, and a corner and dt in the third as a wish list, but still hope that we get the best players available and make it work out.

While he isn't Belichick, boy is it nice to have DJ over MM.

I see Quinn before Peterson as a no brainer for the Browns. Although if Russell/Thomas go one two they will be morons to pass on Calvin Johnson and let him slide to Tampa. But one of the weird things about these choices and situations (bringing game theory into things) is that it is very likely someone else will be a complete idiot or at least do something marginally dumb. Your hope is that it isn't us. So even though the Browns should have Johnson > Quinn > Peterson on their draft board, I don't expect them to act that way.

Woo Hoo! Baseless ridiculous rumors! Unless we get something from our medical staff saying that TKO's ankle will not improve at all and he is unable to perform, he should be a Bill next year. Remember, last off season his ankle prevented him from working out, and then he missed tons of time in the season to the hammy. With his ankle healed, he will be able to work out all off season with the same fire he played before the injury, and even if he doesn't get back to where he was, he will still be better than what we saw in 2006. Plus, other than the ankle being "older" after the surgery, like Willis's knee, the rest of his body basically has two years fewer bumps and bruises and wear and tear because of his injury time away. So while he is 30, his ankle is older and the rest of his body is younger (if that makes any sense). If his ankle will let him compete and not be a forever problem he can be an impact player in 2007 (and really had very little chance of being an impact player in 2006 either way, because of recovery timetables). If his ankle will be something that will plague him forever and limit him to a hobbling old man, then his recovery might never be enough to make him useful. Judging from the way he played the last month of the season, I'm very excited about TKO being an impact player again, and really hope he remains a Bill.

That's my worry too. 2006: Hawk #5, Sims #9, Wimbley #13 2005: 11,12,14,15,17 2004: 12, 17 2003: 18,29 2002: 23,31 2001: 11 So even though the last two drafts have had some high ones, before that it wasn't unusual to have the top LBs fall. I'm fine with Willis at #12, but if we have a trade down opportunity that lets us get the impact players we need, I'm happy with that too. But not to move down to get players we are less excited about just to get a later round pick. We need to get the best impact player we can, and I think that could very easily be Willis.

Hi. My name is Koufax. I'm a Bills fan. I'd like to share with the group that if we get Michael Turner it would be through a trade for far less than a 1st and 3rd, and not as a RFA. So that said, considering he will just be backing up (on the bench) LT for a year and then walking, what do you think San Diego would want for him? Please do not answer a 1st and a 3rd, because that's like us saying we wanta 1st and a 3rd for Willis...not gonna happen. What is the lowest offer that you as a Chargers fan would rather have than Michael Turner on your bench? I think the Bills high #2 would get it done, and that that pick would be worth more to the Chargers than a year of Turner on the bench. I'm not saying that that would be a good deal for the Bills (not without an extension at a reasonable rate), but I think it would for the Chargers.

I know this thread was started with joking around, but people are getting serious. Can I say this once and for all: Michael Turner can be a 2007 Bill if traded for for less than a 1st and 3rd, and there is NO way the Chargers would say no to a lower offer in some cases, rather than watching him sit behind LT all year and then walk for nothing (example, we offer #12 - a bad decision which we will not do, and he is ours without the third, and I think they would probably listen to a 2nd rounder). Michael Turner will not be a 2007 Bill as an UFA. A 1st and a 3rd block him and force any team interested to negotiate with San Diego and make a trade. No team will sign him, and the 1st and a 3rd might as well be seven firsts and a starting defense. It is a make believe option that has nothing to do with getting Michael Turner.

If your worry is after four full seasons I think your priorities are a little off. I think we should get the player we expect the most football contribution out of for four or five seasons, and worry about the other stuff later. My worry is getting a player who doesn't make a big impact over the next four seasons, and I hope that is Marv's worry too.

I too am on the McCargo and Youboty bandwagon. These are both guys who were very highly thought of coming out, and their lack of contribution last year was not a product of sucking. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect both to be starters, and if so that puts LB and RB as our two biggest areas to address. I am always a draft the best talent not the need guy, so if Willis would be a reach, we don't like Lynch, and Peterson is long gone, I'm fine taking a better player at another position, but I go into this thinking about getting better at LB and RB first.

You need to give up a 1st and 3rd to sign Turner as a free agent. You can trade to get him for a lot less, since SD will watch him sit all year this year, and then lose him for nothing. I think it's fine to make a trade offer or test those waters with the Chargers, but we all know he isn't going to be signed by anybody as a restricted free agent.

I would kindly like those six minutes of my life refunded please.

Evidently you didn't watch the pro bowl

I definitely want June and Spikes, because I think TKO could have a big rebound. Having some depth beyond Coy would be good, so Ellison would get bumped to the bench upon June's signing, but it would depend on camp or how Spikes looks before then.

I've been saying it for months. I'll be happy to give a Bills jersey to Leon Hall or Revis or someone else I don't know, but I'm completely fine starting the season with Youboty/McGee/KT. If we can get better in the draft that is great, but if our #1 pick is better used elsewhere these guys can start. I agree that one more free agent is probably all (although I'm still wondering about fullback?), and my top choice right now is June.

We had a first round pick and a third round pick often graded with first round talent not contribute in 2006 but the things that kept them from contributing are behind them, and they should be very valuable acquisitions. So despite a year of experience for each, they get to have anything over zero as an improvement in contribution, and they play positions where we need the help. I don't think another team has a similar situation with a 1st AND a 3rd round pick from last year. We have two rookie safeties who started together and did well all year, but should really benefit from the year of experience in the NFL, in this D, and playing together. This is more standard to year two players, but not too many teams had the side by side situation we did without a veteran crutch, and I think that should mean these guys should grow a lot into year two. And beyond the explanations for just last year's day 1 picks, we also have a younger team than many across the board. So I don't think we are just saying that the Bills young guys will improve and other teams will not, but that the particulars and circumstances would lead to higher expectations for improvement of our young team than many other more veteran teams.

I see what you are saying, but you can get Michael Turner for less than the #1 and #3 of the RFA status. The Chargers would take just the #1, and might take just the #2 or a package. The #1 + #3 are just what a team has to give up to get him without negotiating with the Chargers. The Chargers can still trade him for something less, and when you have LT and know your backup running back is going to walk after next season, getting something for him is probably a good idea. I could see this happening if we push it.

Wow...I know I'm always the eternal optimist, but the pessimists seem to be out of touch with football reality. 1) We are very likely to be worse at #1 CB next year whether it is Youboty or a draft pick. Nate played very well, and will be missed talent wise. However with an extra year for the two rookie safeties, McGee likely to rebound a little or drop to nickel and the possibility of Youboty-Revis both excelling, our secondary could end up being improved as a whole despite the loss of Nate. Have to see if we use the first round pick or not, but I don't think the secondary sky is falling. 2) I personally think that a 2007 LB line of Ellison-Crowell-Spikes is actually better than Crowell-Fletcher-Spikes in 2007. Spikes will have a much better 2007 than 2006, I expect the same from Crowell who missed time with injuries, and I think Ellison has the talent to step in. But we still could sign June, draft Willis, etc. I consider our LBs a small downgrade at worst right now, and very likely to start the season better than last year. 3) D-Line is better. Hargrove all season in the #4, McCargo doesn't become a bust over a broken foot, and there is still solid reason why he was a first round pick. Kyle will be better in year 2, and Larry picked up speed in the second half and will do better playing with a more experienced unit. The ends are the same guys in year two of the D with better tackle play, so should be expected to play at least as well as last year. 4) O-Line is way better. This killed us last year, was better in the second half, but we still only ran one direction. Our upgrades are huge, and this is the most significant improvent on our team. Creating holes on both sides, having power at LG to drive forward in short yardage, and protecting JP and giving Lee an extra second to get open? I can't wait. 5) Receivers are better. Price was underused, as was Roscoe and they will benefit from another year working with the QB and the time the line allows. Lee is going to continue on his way up, but as he draws more attention he will make the others better. 6) Tight ends are same or better. Everett could finally show something. Royal and JP got more comfortable. Still not a strength, but should be alright. Now that Royal doesn't have to stay in and help Pennington all the time he will be a more valuable weapon as the D keys on Evans. 7) JP will be better. We all saw how well he worked last season and progressed. This time last year some people thought Holcomb could be the starter? JP is a solid hardworking QB and his progression continues as well as having better protection, being in year 2 of the system, and getting to know his receivers better. 8) RB will be better. Not sure how yet, so I can take my lumps for people who say it isn't better right now. But I think if A-Train got Willis's carries last year he would have done better than 990. Better line is crucial given how run-left-only we were and how the opposition made that adjustment, but I think we are a good team to plug in a decent back and have him succeed. We didn't give up Willis because we had to (like Nate). We gave up Willis because we thought he was replaceable, and I think the season will show that. So that's before we sign June and have a great draft, but let's leave that stuff out for now. I think this team RIGHT NOW is better than last year without question. We have question marks at RB, CB, LB compared to last year, but we actually have decent players at those positions and will further upgrade all three before the season starts.

KT and June would make a couple nice pre-draft pickups.

This is just a false rumor, but while we are on the subject, a 1st and a 3rd is what it takes to get him without the Chargers' permission. Nobody is going to pay that. They might however rather get a 2nd round pick for him rather than have him sit behind LT for a year and then walk. Seems like a no brainer to me. Having RB depth is definitely important, but when you have LT it is really just injury insurance, and refusing to give up injury insurance for a second round pick doesn't make a lot of sense. So I could see a trade for less than the 1st + 3rd making sense for both sides, but no way does anybody give up a 1st and a 3rd in this RB market for an unproven backup.

Right. And there are lots of ways to do that when you don't say "#1 impact DT/RB/CB/LB" at the end. So we could go Revis, Irons, DT, LB on day one and sign KT and June Or we could go Willis, RB, DT, CB signing a depth KT or another depth CB Or we could go Peterson, CB, DT, CB signing June ...etc. There are lots of ways to upgrade our weakest positions and get strong players added in the draft. Right now I'm officially going to start on the June and KT bandwagon, because that would simplify things down and give us a lot of options for a great draft.

Very happy to have A-Train back. Right now that leaves us at our weak positions with: RB: A-Train-Shaud LB: Ellison-Crowell-Spikes CB: Youboty-McGee-Greer DT: Tripplett-McCargo-Kyle-Hargrove No more glaring holes where we have empty jerseys. I would still like to upgrade all four of these positions, but adding in A-Train gets us in a position where we can pick the best guys through remaining free agents and all 7 rounds of the draft, and not get locked in to having to do XYZ with our #12 pick.

Still nice to know that we could end up with some talent at #12 at RB to go with the DT, CB, LB options already being discussed there. Way too soon to know what we pick and who we pick, but talking about some of the names that might be there at #12 is what this board is all about in March. I don't worry about the "have to" logic at back. And I don't think Willis is enough of a lock to be a star LB and make us so much better than June-Crowell-Spikes that "wasting" a first round pick on Peterson would be a "shame". I also don't think DT is a huge priority for #12 unless the guy available really is the best talent at our pick (is Okoye a better talent and five year projected football player than Willis? Revis? Peterson? Hall?). But a lot can happen between now and draft day, and a lot can happen in the first 11 picks. We should not draft at #12 based on holes...we should address holes to the point where we don't have our hand forced by needs and who is left. I look forward to us deciding 80% talent evaluation of available players and 20% positions that would help us because they are not filled.

Good stuff, but not tied to our reality or what Marv is thinking. No chance at 2 DBs and 2 CBs with the four day 1 picks, but I fully expect one DB and one RB, then most likely a LB and a DT, although trading up could change the dynamics.

After round one would you rather have: RB: Lynch - A-Train LB: Ellison-Crowell-Spikes CB: Youboty-McGee or RB: A-Train - TBD LB: Crowell-Willis-Spikes CB: Youboty-McGee or RB: A-Train - TBD LB: Ellison-Crowell-Spikes CB: Revis-McGee The first option is growing on me, especially with three more day one picks to follow to get LB and CB (and being a big fan that year 2 Youboty has a great chance of being better than a rookie alternative). I think projections of what we can get with our second pick (especially if we use a third to trade up) will influence things...if we see a decent LB or CB available it becomes easier to pick Lynch. If we see a RB we like likely available we can go with Revis or Willis (whoever is higher on our chart).

Agreed. And if Calvin Johnson is there for our second round pick we take him as well. Lynch might drop to 12, but Peterson is not going to be a Bill without trading up. I think the bigger question though is do we think Okoye, Revis, Willis, or Lynch is the best football player? Is Willis better than Lynch? Will Revis be a better player than Okoye? We have different options to improve our weak spots (assuming we re-sign A-Train and have an so-so guy on the depth chart instead of an empty slot). I think Lynch at #12 could work out, but I don't think it is likely. Exciting time leading up to this all though...