JohnC

Are you trying to suggest that when the Bills cut the veteran reserves that the football staff wasn't aware that they would be vulnerable to injuries? Even if the starters were making less than the veteran reserves the team was still under the cap. As you well know injuries are part of the game, very often at a high rate. Letting go credible backup reserves with no good backup players was taking a major gamble in a crash sport involving big people. We are not going to come to an accord on this issue of the franchise's money management policies and how it has affected the record. So we'll respectfully disagree. Where I do to a great extent agree with you is that this owner has selected mediocre staff to run the football operation. For the most part the onus is on the owner because he made the critical hires.. I'm sure that you can agree with that-----and we can leave this joust on a positive note.. .

You have a point. The veterans that were cut didn't appreciably upgrade the roster because it was already lacking in talent. So your position is when you lack talent cut the reserve talent and make your team very vulnerabl in a sport that has a high rate of injuries. The Bills have not made the playoffs in 13 consecutive years. The Bills have had 8 or 9 losing records in the past decade. According to you It can't be due to a systemic organizational issue, it must be bad luck! While the theatre of the absurd is going on part of the loyal audience is clapping and yelling bravo, bravo. Not I.

Of course every team in the league makes player judgments based on talent and salary. No one is disputing that. That is obvious to everyone. The point I and many others have made is that with respect to the Bills they have a history of skewing the balance to the financial side of the operation. If you disagree with that judgment then so be it. The Bills have been in business for more than half a century. Their record is historically bad. It is my view that a lot of that (not all) can be attributed to the business side of the operation. Even someone who is accused of having an intractable view can recognize something that is so obvious.

Some things are obvious to some and not to others. The primary reason for the transactions you just described is blatantly obvious to most. For some people they were smart football decisions that by happenstance hurt the team's chances to compete and improved the ledger sheet.

I never said that Littman makes specific personnel decisions. You are distorting my comments. What I said was that this franchise has a history of forcing moves based on costs, even when there wasn't a cap imperative to do so. If you don't believe that then that is your view. Have things changed now that the owner is not directly involved with the football operation? Probably so.because the cap system has changed compelling all teams to spend to 95% of the cap. When Paul Hamilton described on WGR that during Levy's tenure that he was required to shed a certain amount of salary from the roster there was no surprise to that news. There was nothing surprising about a practice that has gone on for the history of the franchise. There is nothing unusual about the business side of a franchise to make personnel decisions based on money. But let's be realistic here Ralph Wilson and his business minions have taken this squeezing approach to a much higher level. Why do you think the Bills' historical record is dominated with losses? His business model was not quite the same as most of the other franchises.

Anyone who staunchly believes that the Bills organization hasn't had a history of the Detroit business office mandating personnel cuts based on salary is the type of naive person who believes that Maryilyn Monroe was a virgin and that Liberace wasn't gay. Why do you think that Bill Polian had such an antagonistic relatiionship with Littman and the owner? It was over the constant tug of war over money.

Walt Patulski

Could you elaborate on your response?

Jeff Littman, the treasurer of the franchise, is the main financial person who has the most influence regarding the finances of the franchise. He is Ralph's most trusted advisor who works out of Michigan. I don't believe, as you do, that Overdorf makes any personnel decisions. What happens is that Littman determines whether enough cash is flowing to the homebase (Ralph's pockets) in Michigan. If expectations are not being met then a review of the player salaries maintained by Overdorf's office is examined. Overdorf compiles the salaries that will meet Littman's bottom line demand and hands it over to the football side of the operation. The football people then examine the menu of salaries/players and make the decison as who to cut. Littman and Ralph give a rat's ass over who is going to be cut. Their focus is on the money.

Ralph's business model has been in place since its inception. That's why the history of the Bills is weighted toward the losing side over the winning side. Chuck Knox, Bill Polian and John Butler all faced the same internal tug a war with the financial people. When the conflict between pugnacious Bill Polian got out of hand with Littman the owner (not surprising) sided with his finance employee over the football employee. Ralph is now basically out of the picture. His financial guardians are still hovering over the organization. But the system under the new CBA has changed where all teams are required to spend at similar levels. That is not to say that there won't be internal financial maneuvers to squeeze more out of the franchise but it will be less of a factor. Although I have little regard for this shyster owner and the way he has run the franchise I do believe that when the owner turned the keys of the operatiion to Brandon that there was a glimmer of hope. With Nix's departure and Whaley's elevation and the hiring of a new and more vibrant coaching staff it has changed the gloomy atmosphere to a more hopeful one. Both the Seahawks and the Redskins turned around their stagnant franchises over a three year period. Each team last year were serious teams that came close to being SB participants. There is no reason that over a similar period of time this frustrating franchise shouldn't be able to elevate itself into being a serious team. What both of those teams have in common is that by finding their franchise qb it accelerated their rebuilding task. Is Manuel the qb who can propel this franchise upward? We'll find out this year.

Paul Hamilton from WGR a couple of years ago stated that it was a common practice for the finance boys to tell the football decsion-makers that a certain amount of salary had to be cut from the roster. According to PH they wouldn't dictate who was to be cut but what they would do (as you noted) is provide a list of players whose salary fell into the range that needed to be cut. The football people would then make the cut, whether they liked it or not. It was not a secret around the organization or even the league that the owner was financially squeezing his franchise at the expense of fielding a competitive team. . Ralph's piggy bank business model shamelessly took advantage of the system. That is why Ralph was resented by many of the owners, especially the newer and more modern owners Under the new CBA that type of fiscal stringency is going to be mitigated because all teams will be required to spend up to 95% of the cap. The rule was instituted because of owners such as Ralph. There is nothing unusual for owners in all pro sports to consider salaries in relationship to player productivity. It is a business after all. But Ralph took it too another level.

Terrific point! This franchise is not going to advance until the front office has a realistic assessment of their roster. By the shedding of players Whaley and his staff have made a statement that what was on the roster wasn't good enough. While the prior regimses were trying to add pieces to get over the hump this staff recognizes that they are not at that later stage just yet. As you well stated it comes down to do a better job in evaluating players.

Pointing out the record of the previous regimes and then associating the new staff's early performance with the past perfromances is not only nonsensical but it is patently unfair. Whaley just recently assumed full authority for the football operation. How in the world can you come to to the instant conclusion that you see common threads to the operations? At this very early stage of the Whaley regime you can't fairly make a comparison to the other failed regimes. How can the failures of the past be attributed to a regime that just started? You are making the mistake of allowing your judgments of the past to contaminate your objectivity in the present. Make no mistake what is going on with this franchise. The new staff is rebuilding. What it is doing to a large extent is dismantling the handiwork of Levy/Jauron/Brandon/Nix. If you expect instant resuls you are going to be very disappointed. If your criterion for success is based solely on its won/lost record in its inaugural year then you should make an early declaration of failure and jump ship. The GM for the Seahawks, Schneider, in three years remade a lagging franchise into a SB contending team. Mike Shanahan, the HC/real GM, took over a cash strapped team with a lot of over-paid and non-productive vets and cleaned house. In three years his team was remade into a serious SB contending team. In addition, Shanahan had to contend with a $36 million cap penalty, split into two years, while remaking the roster. What accelerated the ascent of both teams was securing quality qbs. Did the Bills find their qb answer this year in the draft? We'll find out this season. My main point is that it is going to take some time to heal this sick franchise. If your metric for success at this very early stage of the rebuild is simply the record then you are going to be very upset. I'm sure it is not acceptable to you but this year is more about the process and development of players than it is about the standings.

Bill, the issue regarding Levitre isn't over whether he is good or not. He is. The front office would even acknowledge that point. The issue for the organization was whether he was worth the type of contract he got with the Titans. They made the calculation that he wasn't. They felt from a cost/benefit standpoint that retaining him wasn't the right thing to do. I'm not challenging your judgment that they should have kept him at the price he eventually garnered. That is a reasonable position to take. What has me perplexed is that although you don't agree with the decision you don't seem to understand their reasoning. You were very forceful in expressing your distaste with the Spiller selection. You portrayed it as a repetition of the organization's drafting lunacy Eventually you cooled your hostility to the selection (not totally) and begrudingly acknowledged that he was a very good player. My point is let the heat cool and eventually if you don't come around to the transaction you will at least understand it.

You are astute and perspicacious! The juandiced eyes of the past shouldn't be used to cloud one's judgment on what is now going on. . I also smell change and something else. After reading your excellent post I pooped my pants. They don't make diapers like they used to. LOL

Are you suggesting that I have been a vociferous defender as to how this organizatiion has been managed? If you are you gruesomely wrong. Of course if the Bills fail on the field everthing else becomes more difficult. That is like saying A precedes B, something that is obvious and can't be disputed. You bring up a very interesting issue regarding the Toronto series. I am not against it. What I am against is the way this shyster owner stuffed the bonanza $$$ in his pocket without doing anything meaningful to upgrade the product. If I had my way I would have forced him to put a chunk of that money in a stadium upgrade escrow fund and forced him to contribute to the rehabbing of the stadium. The problem is he has all the leverage with the public authorities. And he is not afraid to use it. The shame of the Toronto series is if he was really an astute businessman who had a broader vision he could have used those games to market his franchise to the gargantuan Toronto and Canadian market. Ralph's squeezing the customer mentality instead of cultivating a wider market is a typical reflection of the ornery owners attitude toward this franchise and his profit margin. I guess when you get to his age his get it while you can mentality makes some sense. Could you imagine if the Bills playing in Toronto were more like the Jim Kelly SB Bills instead of the rancid and boring product that he exposed to that untapped market. Not only did they not embrace this disgusting product they simply ignored it. Who says the market place isn't rational?

Nelson was an undrafted player for a reason. He is a receiver who has good hands but has little speed and ability to gain yardage after the catch. He is an inconsequential receiver for a team that wants to go with faster and quicker receivers. Rehinhardt is vagabound backup lineman. Another inconsequential player that can easily be replaced. As you noted this roster has to be reworked in order to become a competitive team. Make no mistake about it this is a rebuilding team that has to add a boatload of players before it can get close to being a playoff team. The regimes prior to Whaley assuming the GM position very much bungled their jobs. In my view this is a 5 to 7 win team. What will determine success or failure for this upcoming season is not how many games they win; it will be determined by how Manuel plays. If he demonstrates that he can be a franchise qb then the season is a success. If he doesn't then back to the drawing board. Are you aware that under the new CBA all teams have to spend nearly the same amount of money? Some of the cheesey financial manipulations that this flawed organizaton pulled off in the past are not now allowed. If you continue to look in the rear-view mirror while driving you are going to crash because you are not looking at what is in front of you.

With the exception of Levitre which player or players that have been released this offseason bother you? The Byrd situation is not completely resolved but at least he is a tendered player under the control of the team. Since the departure of the old guard regime,Nix/Gailey, most of the the transactions have been sound and understandable. What player additions this offseason do you find troublesome? The additions haven't been big name splashes but they have been good value pickups. Criticizing the prior regime's personnel decisions are very easy to do. They deserved to be criticized for their bungling. But at this early stage of the new staff involvement with the team most of the decisions have been reasonable.

You don't have to convince me on Byrd's talents because I have that view already. With respect to the futility of throwing cash at mediocre talents such as Kelsay, Green, Fitzs etc. I certainly agree that the contract foolishness of the prior regimes has hindered the team. I'm hoping that under Whaley there will be a better evaluation of talent relative to contracts. All the players you mentioned are gone from the scene. I didn't say that the reason that this front office didn't come to an agreement with Levitre was because of the Wood impending contract. I did say that it could have been a factor. There is nothing unusal about distributing a certain portion of your cap $$$ to different positions on the field. It's not unusal if you sign a CB at a very premium price you then balance it out with a lower level contract with the corner on the other side. It's not unusal for teams to pay a premium $$$ for a LT and then balance it out with a lower valued contract on the right side. There is nothing wrong or peculiar about that approach in spreading out the cap money to the various positions. If you believe that I have been a staunch defender of ths bumbling franchise you are very mistaken. I have been as harsh a critic as anyone of this franchise's institutional irrationality. However, what I see now is a glimmer of hope that this new regime is more sensible and astute than the fools who have been associated with this Ralph Wilson clown operation. It's going to take time to undo what has already been to this very diseased franchise. So far I think they are doing a good job. Just because historically this franchise has acted weirdly doesn't mean that everything done now has to be viewed with the jaundiced eyes of the past.

Stevie Johnson didn't give the Bills much of a home town discount, if at all. He got a fair deal from the Bills that met his needs and the team's needs. Johnson is in my view a mid-tier or slightly lower number one caliber of receiver. He is far from being an elite receiver. Re-signing with the Bills was a smart move on his part because he was able to be the primary receiver for the Bills which would not have been the case with the majority of other teams. There is no magical solution to the Bills status. You change the trajectory of the franchise by having a quality front office and coachng staff. It all starts with the frachise's ability to draft well. I'm sure you will agree that the Bills have been one of the worst drafting team for a very long time. The greatest determining factor is drafting well for a few consecutive years and finding a legitimate frachise qb. It doesn't matter what you do if you don't have a credible qb your team will fail. You can have a very flawed team and still compete if you have a good qb. Kolb-Fitz-TJackson-Thigpen type qbs will keep you on the path to irrelevancy. I'm hoping that Manuel turns out to be the answer. But if he doesn't then you have to aggressively continue in your search for a good qb. You answered your own question regarding becoming a competitive team. Teams that win draft well. They also do well in the mid-tier free agent market. That is where the value is. This franchise for a very long time has had a hollow organizatiion from the front office to the coaching staff. I'm hoping that under Whaley and his coaching staff the operation will be functioning at a higher level and more coherent manner. There is no quick fix from the prior generational ineptitude.

I'm very confident that the Bills will be aggressive in retaining both players. I have suspicions that the Levitre decision was influenced by the impending Wood negotiations. There isn't anyone on this board who is more of a supporter of Spiller than I am. On this issue NYC Bill finds me very irrittating when I respond to his Spiller lamentations. In my view he is not only the best player on the team but also one of the most dynamic players in the league. He is a scintillating player on a very boring team. With respect to your position of being outbid and then flagellating the organization I'm not in your camp. You have to stay true to your beliefs and not be afraid to allow a talent to walk if the terms are beyond reason. The Steelers, Pats and Ravens should be the model organizations to follow. They have a financial structure and they are not afraid to act to uphold that structure. I'm not talking about being religiously rigid on this salary issue but simply stayinng true to your organizational ethos. I'm confident that if both Wood and Spiller want to be with the team they will both be signed. If it turns out that they don't want to be here and ask for terms that will force their departure then so be it.

Urbik and Pears were good value pickups.

Your response is very thoughtful but there are some points that I disagree with. Your discription of the pursuit of TE Fred Davis is not accurate. The Bills offered this injured and rehabilitating TE a good contract. It was more luctrative than what the Redskins gave him. He decided that he preferred to stay with the Skins on a minimal one year deal and play for his next contract this upcoming season. That is his prerogtive. The Bills were more than fair and reasonable in their negotiations with him. Sometimes you make the sale and sometimes you don't. You then move on and go on to option B. With respect to the Levitre ordeal I'm confident that they would have liked to have kept him. But they weren't going outside their financial boundary for the guard. It's not so much that they didn't value the position as much it became an issue of making a cost/benefit calculation on the player and the position. Levite got a generous contract from the Titans. More power to him----I'm happy for him. The market spoke. What was right for the Titans wasn't necessarily right for the Bills, at least that is how they judged the issue. The mistake many people are making in interpreting the Levitre transaction (my opinion) is that they are using it as being emblematic as business as usual. My position is that it isn't necessarily so. Some people are conflating the Byrd and Levire contract issues. They shouldn't. For one the Bills tendered Byrd indicating that they have a willingness to keep him and even pay him at an elevated price range. The tender rate is not chump change. The Bryd contract scenario is not over-----at least that is how I currently see. The Bills fans are understandably like beaten puppies. Like the abused puppy every time someone raises their hand there is an assumption that an ass-whopping is coming. Maybe it isn't so? Just maybe the perceived abuser is simply scratching an irritating itch behind his ear. Anyone who has followed my many very often annoying posts know that I am not an apologist for this lumbering franchise. Just because the prior predictable cycle of regime changes have not brought anything really new to the table doesn't mean that everything this regime does should be tainted by the franchise's pathetic history. The mistake many people are making (my opinion) is over-analyzing individual transactiions with a juandiced eye without considering the totality of the numerous transactions. Widen the context and the tentative early judgment would improve and be more encouraging. I'm far from being naive. There is still a long way to go. But moving in the right directiion is certainly better than moving in the wrong direction.

Nothing personal. You can run but you can't hide. There is a bigger cause here. Take it like a man----and for heaven's sake don't whine and plead for mercy. Have a little dignity when the due date approaches.

Very interesting. Learning is illuminating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnaud_Amalric Mafia motta: When in doubt kill the bastard, and then kill the other bastard. Simple solution to a vexing problem.