JohnC

Chan Gailey was a very good OC and a medocre HC. He was very good at designing plays even when the qbing was uneven. It's obvious that this regime preferred an OL makeup that was big and heavy. The inherent weakness that can't be overcome is that at especially at the guard positions the players have slow feet. They can't adequately react to the quicker defensive players. When you watch the line you see a lot of whiffs. That is a physical problem that can't be overcome with coaching. It is simply physcial limitations on display. It is ugly to watch. Our second round draft pick, Kujo, was an OT who could physically dominate the defensive lineman he was going against in college. In the pros he is an ajbect failure for the primary reason that he has slow and sluggish feet. A debilitatng attribute that probably can't be overcome. When you repeat a mistake you contnue on making the same mistakes. Ridiculous!

Nix sent this franchise back many years. This organization is still feeling the repercussions of his lack of understanding on how to build a team. He stated when he first took over that before he addressed the qb issue he was going to increase the talent base and then address the qb issue. That is simply one of the dumbest approaches to take in building a roster. The right approach is when the opportunity is there to get a good qb prospect in the draft on the market you seize that opportunity because the future chances may be very limited. Nothing accelerates the building of a roster than securing a good qb. When an owner hires utter incompetents there should be no surprises when the incompetents perform down to the level of their abilities. It's maddening!

If you have an OL and qbs that can't execute plays in the tough red zone areas then how is it the coaches fault? The talent level is simply not adequate enough to get the job done. Being successful in the red zone is not about brilliant play calling or outsmarting the opposition. It's more about going head to head against the opponent. We are typically overmatched in the matchups.

Gotham Bill, As much criticism that Marrone has attracted the bottom line is that he has an 8-8 type team playing at an 8-8 level. Is DM an elite HC? Of course not. No one is suggesting otherwise. But considering what he is working with at qb, the embodiment of mediocrtiy, the HC is not performing as an abject failrue as others suggest. Clearly DM can't be categorized as an elite HC but that certainly doesn't make him a hack. I give Marrone a lot of credit for resolutely making the qb change rather early in the season (regardless what the front office felt). That qb change salvaged the season. He replaced an overwhelmed prospect qb with an acknowledged average backup qb who was demonstrably better than the qb he replaced. The dismal level of talent at the most important position in the game is what Marrone and his staff are working with. The discussion about Marrone's arrogance and prickly personality are distracting side issues. The bottom line in rating a HC is he getting the most out of his talent and are the players playing hard and held accountable. I say yes. I agree with you and others in believing our qb situation is dire. That is not the HC's fault. For me the majority of the fault can be attributed to the buffoonish Nix who had a number of opportunities to address that critical issue. He waited too long and then panicked with the EJ pick while he was preparing to go out the door. While you are very crtical of Whaley I am more cautious about how much he was accountable for the makeup of the team during Nix's tenure. So I am going to give him more leeway than you are. In general I think he is going a good job. I'm sure you and others are tiring of me repeating myself but I strongly believe that what this historically troubled franchise doesn't need is another churning of the coaching staff. Doing so might for the short term satisfy the clamoring fans but it will not stabilize a franchise noted for its instability.

There certainly is a way to making a timid coach more courageous: Get him a qb who can make plays and expand the playbook. As others have said there were many plays in which our wideouts were open but the qb simply couldn't/wouldn't get the ball down the field. Our offense is limited because the OL and qb are obviously limited. That is not the coaches fault. You work within the players abilities and limitations. What more do you expect?

I apologize if you think that I was harranguing you. That wasn't my intention. My response was to your response to me. I didn't read all the other follow up posts on that issue. So it might seem to you that I am stacking up on you after the fact of your acknowledgement but I am not.

If you factor in the quality of the product he was marketing he should be given even more credit for accomplishing what he did. A generation of fans have not witnessed quality football. Yet under that burdensome backdrop I credit him for doing a marvelous job under challenging circumstances.

If the qb hits on a few long passes it will bode well for the qb. The HC and offensive staff will predictably be effusive in their praise of the qb who exhibited good judgment. I haven't read the Sully column but it's not surprising that the coach prefers quick forming passing plays because the OL is not adept at pass blocking. You also have to consider that Orton's arm is not too strong. When your qb has limitations it's not surprising that the coaches adjust to the limitations.

All qbs have the authority to change the call at the line of scrimmage when their wideouts have one on one coverage. Sometimes qbs decline to do so because they are more comfortable sticking with the called play or there isn't adequate protection to give them enough time to allow the play to develop. But the notion that Orton is not allowed to throw it down field because of the game plan is not accurate.

You make the assumption based on threadbare information that Whaley wasn't involved in the hiring of Marrone. He was involved in the process. It wasn't a dictated decision, it was a collective decision which included his collaboration. I strenuously disagree with your position that Brandon is involved with the football operation. There is no doubt that the Wilson model was spearheaded through Littman with a very thin firewall between the football and business operations. They were to a great extent joined at the hip. If the finance boys nixed a personnel decision their decision was in force. That co-mingling organization structure no longer exists. Too many people are exaggerating the importance of the HC's decision regarding Mike Williams and how it supposedly challenges the authority of the GM. Let's put it in perspective. The Mike Williams deal was a fringe deal by the GM. He gave up I believe a 6th round pick. There are good reasons associated with performance, practice, attitude etc why the HC decided he shouldn't play. This notion that he is subverting the GM because of his playing decision regarding this problematic and fringe player is simply nonsensical. Let's be fair. There is no GM and HC in the league that are totally in accord. That is nearly impossible to achieve because each postion has a different perspective, long-term for the GM and short-term for HC. If you understand that dynamic then you can understand the different views by each on the qb issue. Marrone's position is reasonable from his HCing standpoint and Whaley's probable desire to see more of EJ this season from the GM perspective. The tension between the GM and HC that so many people are fretting over is not exceptional, it is the norm. I've said it many times and I will say it again: What this historically franchise doesn't need is another churning of HCs. It doesn't stabilize the situation, it reinforces instability. The substative problems associated with this team have more to do with roster limitations than it does with coaching issues. Marrone is presiding over an 8-8 calber team. When all is said and done he will have the team play up to its average talent level, most notably diminished because of the offense and qb I say this with a great deal of confidence that if and when Pegula gets outside eyes to evaluate the organization the end result will still have Brandon being retained in his current role. That role does not involve making direct football decisions. That is Whaley's responsibility.

Brandon is one of the best in his business. From a business standpoint he has kept a long-term dismal franchise vibrant. He had a marketing plan of regionalizing (standard in the NFL) and executed it exceptionally well. East towards Rocherster he increased the market, the southern tier he increased the market and without a doubt the Canadian market has expanded. Although the organization received a lot of criticism with its venture into Toronto the owner prospered from that deal. He pocketed $78 M up front and he used the Toronto connection to increase the winning Pegula bid by approximately $400 M. If you were a boss wouldn't you be ecstatic with the sterling work of that particular employee? I have been a long time critic of the former owner and the way he operated the franchise. In my view one of the best things he did in his waninng years is to give Brandon the authority to manage the franchise. It was Brandon more than anyone else who guided this franchise into the modern era. He could only do so much with the owner's entrenched staff (most notably Littman) but he steadily moved this franchise into an upward trajectory. It has been said by others and I will repeat the point that Brandon is involved with the business side of the franchise and not the football operation. Whaley and his staff are making the football decisions with little interference other than being informed of what is going on. Their success or failure will be due to their own judgments. If Pegula is as smart as I think he is he will retain Brandon and give him a boost in pay to make sure that he is associated with his franchise for a very long time.

He's bringing up the issue because it is the glaring issue swirling in the press room. There is no way to avoid the issue because it permeates the room whenever he stands behind the podium answering questions. Marrone strongly believes that Orton with all his reeking mediocrity gives this team a better chance to win than EJ. You don't think that If EJ demonstrated in practice or gave a hint that he could outperform Orton he would start him or insert him in a game when KO predictably falters? The HC is not making a judgment on his qbs in a vacuum. He has seen EJ play and he sees him in practice every day. At this point he clearly doesn't believe that the young qb is ready. The main issue isn't whether the HC believes Orton gives the team a better chance to win this year. The real issue is whether the HC believes that EJ will ever be a franchise qb to lead this team. If he has already made a determination that conflicts with the front office's assessment of EJ then that is an issue that will have to be addressed soon after the season is concluded. In other words the current HC will not be HC next year. There is a lot at stake here that goes beyond this season and the next. If Whaley and his staff strongly believe that Manuel has the ability to be a franchise qb and are very much invested in him then that committment (gamble) if they are wrong can result in this team floundering for another 3-4 yrs or longer.

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the situation. The family and those involved with the sale were trying to sell the notion that there were other bidders who were willing to up the price. The banking firm was trying to solicit additional bidders to keep the process moving upwards. Pegula could have been confident that he was going to win the bid because he knew how much higher he was going to go to win out. Stories were "floated" that the Toronto group was coming in with a $! B bid and there were stories that there were unidentified parties involved who wanted to enter the auction. The Wilson family and their reps were very tight lipped about how they were going to handle their estate. They were determined in keeping it private and out of the public domain. So I am assuming that Pegula wasn't even aware that the sale proceeds were going to a nontaxable charitable foundation. WEO, you are very much over-thinking how this auction happened. Ralph certainly wanted the team to remain in western NY and he wanted to get the maximum price. That shouldn't surprise you. In hindsight one can say the Pegula overpayed for the franchise but when it was going on he didn't know how much he needed to guarantee that he got what he desired. As I stated in a prior post Pegula was asked if he overpayed for the franchise. He said no because he got what he wanted. There are people who are in such a rarified financial strata that the price of a desired product is not an issue. The Lakers sold for $2B when the value was at $1 B or less. Stevel Ballmer told Sterling's wife (in private) no matter what anyone bids I will pay you millions more. Pegula was determined to get the franchise and was willing to pay whatever it took to ensure that he got it. It's as simple as that! You need not complicate something that is relatively simple.

Thanks for the link. It was insightful in demonstrating their committment to the region. They are making high stake investments in their burgeoning sports empire. It's going to be interesting to find out what their thoughts are regarding a new stadium. Did the Pegulas' have a grand design or a preliminary vision of owning the team and being involved with the buidling of a new facility? If they did then I'm guessing that it will be in the vicinity of their current holdings?? I got a chuckle when Terry Pegula stated that he didn't own a computer. Clearly he is not a tweeter. His kids will have to handle that side of the business.

The person running the foundation is Littman. You can't find a more financially talented person to be involved with this type of endeavor.

You missed my central point. The one transaction that will elevate this franchise more than any other is having a quality qb. For me that is very obvious. No one is saying that other roster issues need not also be addressed, such as the OL. In my opinion this year, even with a flawed roster, if the qbing would have been credible this team would have been in the playoffs. I have no doubt that Pegula is going to talk to a lot of experts regarding the franchise and how it is structured. In fact the restructuring has started with the departure of Littman. It doesn't matter who Pegula talks to when he seeks advice the advice is going to be simple and obvious: get yourself a freaking qb that will enable you to compete! Even Pegula the hockey man can trust his eyes and understand that the level of play of our qbs is handicapping this team. There is no mystery here or genius thought required to figure out what the main problem is with this team (not all the problems), Where you and I disagree is that I believe that Whaley has brought in enough quality staff and restructured the football operation adequately enough. You may not agree with that assessment but I do.

My understanding is that Uncle Sam doesn't get any revenue from the transaction that went to the charitable foundation. As I said in a prior post Jack Kent Cooke of the Redskins did the same thing of selling the franchise and having the proceeds go to a charitable foundation, thus avoiding estate taxes. Let's give Ralph Wilson some credit. He doesn't know much about football but he does know how to make a good deal for himself. The extravagant price Pegula paid had llittle to do with his generosity toward funding Wilson's foundation. He probably didn't even know about it.. When Pegula was asked why he spent so much for the team when there was a chance he could have bid less and still gotten the franchise his response was I wanted to make sure I got what I wanted to get. He added, from my perspective it is not overpaying if you get what you want and you can afford it. If you recall prior to the bidding Pegula cashed out one of his assets for approximately $1.4 B. He set it aside for his bidding money and made it very publicly known to all the other bidders how far he was willing to go. That was his blow away the competitiion strategy that he employed. For him it wasn't about how much money he was willing to spend, it was about guaranteeing you get what you want.

This organization has gone through tumult since its inception. With Whaley at the helm and with the opportunity to bring in his own people this historically oddball franchise has at the minimum achieved normalcy. The Levy/Brandon/Nix tenure very much damaged this franchise. Addressing the qb issue under most circumstances is a major challenge. When you have three stooges type staffing making personnel decisions it is an impossible challenge. Pegula can bring in all the expensive consultants he wants and come up with the same major conclusion that you and I advocate for: the priority is getting a legitimate franchise qb to take the snaps, even if it is only a bridge qb until a long-term qb is identified. To be fair if this team had an above average qb when the season started it would not be unreasonable to believe that this team would be in the playoffs, even with an atrocious OL. It might be satisfying for many people to dump the HC because of the repetitive scenario of not being a playoff participant. But getting rid of the HC and doing another front office restructuring doesn't solve anything as much as getting a qb who can play at a high enough level to make this offense more productive. I say this with extreme confidence if Kyle Orton is the starting qb next year the playoff drought streak will continue. I will also say that if EJ is the starter next year he will be better and the streak of playoff drought will still be in effect. The OL as it is structureed with its type of players, especially at the guard positions--big and slow footed. was flawed to begin with. It's about the talent level. Bad qbing affects the OL, and bad OL play affects the qb play. Mediocrity applied to mediocrity results in mediocrity magnified.

Considering what the Bills had at qb coming into this season the Bills were an 8-8 type team, maybe 9-7 at best. The person taking our snaps is a vagabound qb who didn't come into camp until the season was just about to start. He, mediocre as he is, replaced the young starter who was simply (at this point) was not up to the task. Our OL as it stands is less than being below par. The bottom line is on offense because of the qb and line situation this team was never going to be a contending team. I don't care who the HC is no one is going to overcome the lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball. The worse thing this misbegotten franchise should do is to bring in another coaching staff. The churning of the staff for a franchise that has historically been unstable is to create more instability. The source of the problem is the roster. Until the deficiencies are rectified it doesn't matter who the HC is. Not having an all-star qb is not the issue here. The primary issue is that the team doesn't have a legitimate franchise qb that will enable it to compete at a serious level.

My understanding is that the money going to the charitable foundation is not taxed. Jack Kent Cooke took the same charitable foundation estate planning strategy to avoid the taxing of his estate. His money went to a foundation that provided college scholarships for DC residents. His son was not a beneficiary of his father's charitable largesse. He wasn't very happy about being left out of the will.

You are right that you can't blame Marrone for the prior failed generation. But how do you fairly judge a HC that doesn't have a credible qb. If he had an average caliber starting qb then I would be more receptive to damning him. But he, and anyone else at the helm, is doomed to fail until a respectable person is taking the snaps. The HC has a good defense that is playing up to its talent level. But that positive segment of the roster is squandered because the offense can't function with sub-par qbing. It doesn't matter how innovative you are on the offensive side of the ball of the ball if the person taking the snaps can't play at a reasonable level. That is not the HC's fault. That is a front office miscue. Give the HC creidt for being decisive in benching his overwhelmed young qb. That move salvaged the season. The struggling youngster was replaced by a mediocre vagabound qb who is at best a mediocre backup. That's what the HC has to work with. No replacement of the coaching staff is going to make a greater impact than securing a competent qb. Pegula can hire all the high priced football consultants he wants. He is wasting his money. Any fool (including me) can see that unless that position is dramatically upgraded all the other actions mean nothing. If the Bills are counting on EJ to make a quantum leap next year and lead this franchise into a serious playoff contention they are taking a big gamble. Are there free agent qbs on the market who can at least be a reasonable bridge qb until a long term franchise qb is acquired? Possibly? That is a front office responsibility more than it is a HC responsibility. Until the qb situation is clarified churning the coaching staff over is an act of futility. I hate to look backwards but Buddy Nix set this franchise back by a number of years because he was hideously incompetent. The former owner demonstrated his lack of football common sense when he hired Levy/Brandon/ Nix to run the operation. The outcome he got was the outcome that was preordained with his not only bad but weirdness in staffing judgment.

Florida State's O'Leary is a very attractive TE prospect. Gets out there and catches the ball with his terrific hands. He seems like the type of player who could play right away. He's the grandson of legendary golfer Jack Nicklaus. There is a good chance that he would be available when our turn comes up in the second round. http://www.seminoles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209573027&DB_OEM_ID=32900

The chances of the Bills making the playoffs are minimal to nonexistent. Odds are the Bills are not going to win against Green Bay and New England regardless who is qbing. The organization knows exactly what caliber of qb Orton is. What they don't know is what caliber of qb Manuel can be. Even if Manuel struggles or has uneven performances that doesn't mean that he can't get something out of his playing time. There is a reasonable chance even if the Bills lose two out of three or even three out of three games that EJ can have episodic moments of good qb play.that can demonstrate to himself and others that there is good potential to work with. I'm not as concerned with EJ's fragile psyche as others are. He is a strong character who can handle the ups and downs associated with his profession and position. Being benched was the right thing to do for him and the team. At the time of his benching there was enough time left in the season to make a serious run for the playoffs. That scenario is virtually gone, no matter what the numbers indicate. Even with mounting losses if EJ learns from his added playing time as the season winds down then that is beneficial situation for him and the organization. From a fan standpoint it is more compelling to watch a qb prospect than a fading pedestrian qb play as the season comes to a conclusion. It EJ shows some ability then that is something to build on. If he struggles then there is more for him to work on in the offseason.

What's the downside for EJ? If it is exposing his weaknesses then so be. The only way he is going to develop is to play. If he struggles and a crescendo of criticism materializes then so what? That is the nature of being a qb at any level. He should be able to handle the pressure in playing the last three games of the season without having it scar him for next season's preparation. Even if he falters and the natives get restless the more he plays before next season the better he will be prepared for next season. Are there risks playing him? Yes. The coaching staff has to make the determination as to whether he is ready or whether at this point he simply can't handle starting. If it is the latter case then it certainly doesn't bode well that he will be capable enough to compete for playing time next year. .

Orton was inserted into the lineup because EJ was overwhelmed when he played. He couldn't read defenses, couldn't properly react to plays and most damaging his accuracy was horrendous. Even when he completed short passes his ball placement was atrocious. There were few completions made where the receiver, back or the wideout , was able to keep their stride when catching the ball. It's very evident that Orton has sunk to his actual mediocre level. He is what he is: a pedestrian backup. But given that poor rating he gave this team a better chance to win than the unprepared and erratic EJ. Marrone is not the fool that many people try to portray him to be. He salvaged the season by replacing the young qb who was a disaster and replaced him with a vagabound qb that no one else was interested in. You don't think that DM knew how good/bad Orton was when he belatedly join the team. Yet he made the switch because he had to make a move to salvage the season. Would I switch to EJ at this point? I would. But the reality is that this franchise is still going to struggle until there is a dramatic upgrade at the qb position from what we already have on the roster. The Bills are in a desperate bind because this franchise was run by hideously incompetents. Jauron/Levy/Brandon/Nix not only held this franchise back but they set it back. The signing of Orton out of basically his retirement (no offseason preparation) was an act of desperation brought on by the fools who put this franchise in this predicament. The shame of the situation is that our defense is an elite defense worthy of the playoffs and beyond. But because of the malfeasance/nonfeasance of the incompetents hired by an incapable owner this franchise squandered an opportunity to be a serious team because of the dire situation at qb that won't be resolved this season. It is such a shame. Do Marrone and Hackett warrent criticisms? Yes. But the heart of the problem has less to do with their competency than it does with the limitations of the roster they have to work with, especially at the qb position.