JohnC

If Lynch were playing behind this year's OL and with Orton as his qb he would be an invisible player in this league. This is a franchise that not only gives away Lynch for pittance (situational reasons)but trades Peters away to the Eagles where he becomes a perennial all-pro. This comical organization pays all-star money to two oversized linemen (Dockery and Langston Walker)who couldn't move and play yet ferociously closes its wallet to the player who wants to be paid at a level that is commensurate with his talents. When you create a team pay scale where players who can't play get stunningly large contracts even exceeding what your best lineman gets then contract conflicts are a natural outcome. I have yet to understand why Chad Rhinehart was let go to end up in San Diego where he played well. The Bills ended up replacing him with Colin Brown who was rated as the worst guard in the league. He's probalby out of football. Even if Rhinehart wanted to follow his line coach to San Diego a reasonable bump up in salary would have been enough to keep him with the team. This is a franchise which drafts Kujo in the second round and then he is so overmatched that he should have been cut in the first weeks of training camp. While Whaley drafts the bulky Richardson who was overwhelmed to the extent that he had to be replaced Ozzie Newsom drafts John Urschel (a Buffalo native) from Penn State in the same fifth round. He ends up starting and outperforms all of our linemen. My point is simple. The Bills had arguably the worst OL in the league this year. It was caused by its own self-destructive decisions.

No one but EJ has more control of his own destiny. The HC and especially the front office want him to seize the opportunity afforded to him. Even with the addition of another qb brought into the mix he is the one who is in position to take the reigns as a starting qb. EJ is entering into his third year. He, like most young qbs, has struggled. If he outperforms the other qbs on the roster he will play. If he is erratic he will fall by the wayside. The issue of having a hardnosed agent represent him should not be an issue to be concerned with. If he plays like he is a backup talent, he will be paid like a backup qb. If he demonstrates that he is a legitimate starting qb he will be paid like a starting qb. The money that Parker got for Peters and Byrd were not due to the agent's ability to hoodwink anyone. He got the players money that was commensurate with their rankings as players. As it stands EJ's financial value as a qb is minimal because he hasn't to this point demonstrated that he has much future worth. If EJ is looking for an exit ramp (as you put it) it will be because the organization doesn't value him as a player. So far with the opportunities he has had EJ hasn't shown very much. The real issue isn't whether he wants to be a Bill so much as does the organization believe he should be a Bill. Is EJ Manuel going to eventual become a vagabound backup qb such as Jason Cambell or is he going to establish himself as a legitimate franchise qb? He is the one who is going to make that determination by his play. This organization would be wise to have a backup play just in case.

When did Brandon ever negotiate contracts? How can the agent be his nemesis when he hasn't directly dealt with him?

Thanks for the clips. In the second video at the 4:50 mark Pegula appears ready to be introduced and the crowd goes crazy. It got me fired up. Pegula won me over as being a cool guy when he said he doesn't use a computer. He once pointed out that it was his mischevious tech savvy daughter who does the unauthorized tweeting.

Even in a collaborative setting you are not going to have unanimity in opinion. It is impossible to always have total agreement on issues. If Marrone disagreed on the Watkins draft day maneuver, so what? Do you think that he was going to agree with all the draft selections? Of course not? He shouldn't have the most influence in draft selections because he is simply too busy with his own responsibilities to be immersed in evaluating prospects. Most of the responses on this topic are saying the same thing. You have a structured process in decision-making and you follow it. At the top of the pyramid for personnel decisions is the GM. The HC has a lot of influence in the process but at the conclusion of the process the GM has the final say. When all is said and done the Bills' Power Structure is a very conventional/standard approach in its organizational setup. There are organizations such as the Pats with Bilichick and Parcells with the organizations he has worked with where the HC has a greater authority in personnel decisions compared to the norm. Those are unique situations where they have earned their power situations.

There is no such thing as an organization being conflict free. It can't happen in the real world of football with so many different evaluations of players and personnel decisions. There is nothing wrong with having conflicting views. Free expression of opinions should be encouraged, not discouraged. The worst thing that can happen to a football organization (or any large orgnanizatiion) is the trap of group think and an attitude and environment of going along to getting along. That's a recipe for complacency and stagnation. In that type of stultifying environment you don't take risks to get better because of the fear of failure. Whaley and Rex are not always going to see eye to eye. Just as Whaley and Marrone would not always see eye to eye. You have to be able handle your differences through professional respect and engagement. That is an area that Marrone struggled with and resulted with him deciding to leave. Whaley is responsible for assemblling the roster and Rex will be responsible for the game day roster and determine how the players are going to be used. It was apparent by the way Marrone used and didn't use some of Whaley's acquisitions that he disagreed with the GM's personnel decisions. Yet Whaley didn't interfere with Marrone's coaching prerogatives when it came to game day decisions. That is how it is supposed to work. It was far from being a harmoneous working relationship between the GM and the HC but the roles were clearly defined. It appears to me that Whaley has little to worry about what his authority is. I don't see anyone interfering with him doing his job. His main concern is the product on the field and how it performs. And that is how it should be. The owner paid $1.4 B for the franchise. You can be sure that he is going to be asking the GM and the HC a lot of questions about what is going on and why decisions are made. There is nothing wrong with that. That is what bosses do. But I don't see the astute new owner making football decisions that fall within the realm of the hired staff.

Bringing in Polian to get some feedback from him is a good idea. But considering Polian as some overseeing czar is not a good idea, in my opinion. Adding another layer of authority, official or not, creates the potential for conflict. Empowering one source of authority is the best approach to take. In that way there is no confusion at towho the football authority is in your organization. It simplifies who is responsible on football issues. Pegula's hockey experience of bringing in Pat Fontaine as an expert voice worked when he was putting together a staff. But once the front office was in place and Murray was installed as the GM there were problems associated with the extra layer of authority (Fontaine) who then didn't have a clear mission in the room. Patty's influenced waned once the hockey staff was installed. That change in status created conflict that resulted in Patty angrily bolting (bought off) from the organization. Pegula was very smart in expanding his horizon by talking to Polian and getting his thoughts. It worked out in Pegula's favor when Polian decided that he didn't want to get offically involved with the organization. The end result of having clear lines of authority worked out well for the owner and the organization. Very often by keeping the management structure clear and simple you know exactly who is to be held accountable when things work out well and when they don't.

This excessive gushing over the irrisistable family atmosphere created by the Pegula couple is spinning out of control. The reality is that Rex preferred the job in Atlanta because it would have been a better situation for him mostly because they have an established qb. The owner of the Falcons couldn't give him an immediate job offer because he was dealilng with the death of his mother. Rex during his stint with the Jets never really had an upper tier qb to work with. He did a good job during the early Sanchez days but the last couple years were a challenge for him because of the void he had at the qb position. The bottom line is that he took the job offer that was in hand instead of waiting and chancing the job he preferred going to someone else. What is not going to make Rex a success is his bombast and loud personality. What will make him a success is getting a qb who can play at a competent level (maybe EJ/maybe not) and bringing in players to bolster our overmatched OL. Rex knows how to coach a defense. Everyone knows that. His challenge is the same as it was for Marrone: getting better players on offense mostly for the OL and at the qb position. He brought in a veteran offensive coordinator who is respected around the league. So that is a good start. There is no doubt that Rex has a more engaging personality than the dour Marrone. So what! It means nothing. The difference in results is going to come from an infusion of better players not because the HC is accomplished in giving provocative cocky responses. Successful HCs such as Bellichick, John Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy etc are successful at their jobs because they know how to judge talent and put them in a position to succeed. For the most part they let their actions speak louder than their words.

The central weakness of our OL was slow feet and a lack of athleticism. Richardson, Pears, Urbik and Kujo struggled because they couldn't move. Our OL as a group simply couldn't respond to the quickness of defenses? How many time last season did you witness players blow by our players? Compare Richardson the fifth round pick of Whaley to the fifth round pick of Ozzie Newsom of the Ravens. He selected John Urschel out of Penn State (mathematical genius from Buffalo) who played) who played an exceptional against the Pats. The Bills OL as a group were overwhelmed. It had more to do with a lack of ability (especially at the guard positions)than to coaching. A Kujo and Richardson type bulky player simply can't adequately contend with strong and quick pro players. In college they their unsophisticated approach of simply out-sizing the opposition works but in the pros it is a recipe for failure. If it wasn't for the fact that Kujo was a second round draftee he would have been cut early in training camp. When Richardson played he was rated as the worst guard in the league. The lumbering Richardson was both physically and mentally over-matched. I am very emphatic in my belief that the primary reason why our offense faltered was due to a lack of talent, mostly on the OL and at qb. Even with a major coaching change unless the talent is demonstrably upgraded at those positions the results will be the same.

Kaepernick is an immensely more talented qb and better prospect than EJ. EJ is a high character person with an impressive work ethic. He is the type of person everyone roots for. However, I don't believe that his prospects for success are high. I would love to be proven wrong.

I disagree with you. He is never going to a classic polished pocket qb like Brees, Brady and Manning. But that doesn't mean that he can't adjust his game to become a very effective qb suited to his particular skill set. His style of play in college made for a very difficult transition to the pro game which calls for good pocket awareness. In my view he has the ability to be a very effective NFL qb.

As soon as the season ended he made arrangements to get outside help to improve his game. He is motivated and taking action to get better.

He is still a young qb who got too caught up in the celebrity aspect of the profession. He is going to be more focused this offseason in learning how to play the position. He is never going to be able to read defenses like Brady or Manning but he will get better with experience and play with more intelligence.

I like Whaley a lot but his performance this past offseason in regards to addressing the needs of the OL was horrible. He drafted Kugo in the second round. Not only was he not ready to play but if he wasn't such a high draft choice he would have been cut early in training camp. In the 5th round he selected OG Richardson. He was overwhelmed. Some analytics indicated that he was the worst LG in the league when he was playing. His play was so inept that he was replaced and didn't see the field again. Whaley's best offensive lineman selection in the draft was Henderson. He has physical tools but he struggled all season long. Although he has potential he wasn't ready to play this season. Ozzie Newsome of the Ravens selected John Urschel from Penn State in the 5th round. He was a Buffalo native who went to Canisius H.S. He is a mathematical genius who could have gone to Harvard or MIT. He ended up starting for the Ravens in the playoffs and outperformed all of our linemen, including the veterans' When it comes to evaluating offensive linemen prospects Whaley did a very poor job for us last year.

Where did you come up with the belief that he was dumb? He aced his SATs and Stanford aggressively pursued him. There were IVY league schools that had an interest in him. Don't be fooled by the tatoos and the denim outfit. He is a smart and high character kid. http://www.bestmastersdegrees.com/smartest-players/

I will conclude this back and forth discussion. For me I would take Bortles over Orton this year regardless what the statistics indicate. You would not. That is fine. If Bortles turns out to be a serviceable qb (I believe that he is going to be better than EJ) then in my view he is an immensely better qb than Orton. On the Orton issue I am going to respectfully disagree with you. The mere fact that this caliber of qb was our starting qb for most of the season is a testament to the ineptitude of our organization.

Entering the season with the knowledge of how the two players will play I would without hesitation take the younger qb over the veteran qb. With respect to Orton I don't give a dam about his stats. Watching him play was more informative (for me) than analyzing his stats. His lack of mobility and athleticism was stunningly bad. Even if Bortles played poorly there was a purpose for continuing to play him, namely gaining experience. With Orton there was nothing redeeming about his play. Watching such a limited qb play was a dispiriting experience. As I have repeatedly stated his stats were very much inflated by the end of the game prevent defenses. Those padded stats don't reflect how atrociously bad he was. It was excruciatingly painful to watch such ineptitude on a weekly basis.

I will take under any circumstance a struggling rookie qb with talent over a mediocre veteran qb who has faded to the end of the career line. At least with the struggling rookie qb with tools he is at least gaining valuable experience that will serve him well in the future. There is not one GM in the game who would prefer having Orton over Bortles. With Bortles you have future hope. With Orton you got little from him at the end of his career and you get nothing from him in the future. Whether you rank Orton at the bottom or near the bottom of qb rankings what is the difference? An ineffectual veteran qb gets you no where. Having an older qb who is ineffectual is demonstratably a less favorable situation to be in than having a rookie qb with tools who struggles. In the current discussion a reliance of stats doesn't reflect the totality of the situation.

I don't care about Orton's stats last season. The bulk of it was due to end of game prevent defenses that increased his stats. How poorly he played is not reflected by the inflated stats that don't demonstrate how he actually played. Bortles didn't play on a good team. But because he was much more athletic and mobile I would without any hesitation prefer him (or just about anyone else) over Orton. As I have stated over and over the Bills had arguably the least talented OL and starting qb in the league. I don't want to come off as being arrogant but how anyone who watched the games can come to a different conclusion not only surprises me but also puzzles me.

RT Henderson didn't play well. RG Pears didn't play well. C Woods didn't play well. RG Richardson and Urbik didn't play well. LT Glenn didn't play well. As a unit this was a hideously incompetent lot. Many people are suggesting their bad play was due to a poorly designed offense. My resolute position is this was a talentless grouping that played down to its wretchedly poor talent level. Next year there will be multiple personnel changes made within the unit. It won't be due to offensive design so much as it will be due to talent issues. There is a tendency of this fickle fan base to vilify people who leave this organization. They inflate their assessment of players when they are with the franchise and they debase them when they leave. This is the same syndrome that happened with the Peters situation. When he left he was harshly disparaged. The end result is he went to a team that wanted him, payed him accordingly and now is a perenial all-star who can reasonably be considered as a lower-tiered HOF candidate. The bottom line is that Marrone got a very flawed and imbalanced team to play up to its talent level. That certainly doesn't make him an elite HC but it does allow him to be categorized as a competent HC.

If Bortles can move better than an aged two legged dog I would without any equivocation take him over Orton in the 2014 season.

If a new HC has to work with the same limited players on the OL he had and has to start a qb as limited as Orton he will fare no better than Marrone. Doug Marrone was never an innovative and creative coach, before he was hired or after. The organization got what exactly what they hired. He is who he is and what he was before he was selected as a HC. He wasn't hired because he was an empathetic person; he was hired because he was a hardhass. The organization did its due diligence when they hired him. So why is everyone so surprised when he doesn't act out of character? Doug Marrone didn't betray anyone. He acted in his interest and he did so within the terms of his contract. He didn't want to remain in the current situation so he opted out. Again, what is wrong with that? The bottom line is he got a team to play to its deficient talent level. If that is average then so be it. I would absolutely take Hoyer or Geno over Orton any day of the week. They may be mediocre qbs but at least they can move better than a three legged giraffe.

I didn't say he was a good or bad guy. He acted in his interest within the terms of his contract. What is wrong with that? The so called furor over the issue of the texting associated with his departure means little. Who cares? Whether he held a press conference or not who cares? What is the point?

I don't understand the vilification of Doug Marrone. He had major philosophical differences with the GM and front office. You can disagree with his approach toward building a roster compared to the front oficce's approach. His differences with Whaley couldn't be reconciled. So instead of letting the situation fester and get worse he exercised the buy out option in his contract. What is wrong with that? Instead of characterizing him as a traitor he should be applauded for acting on his principles. There is nothing wrong with him opting out. As I stated before it was the right thing for him to do and it was in the best interest of the organization. The glorification of the Gailey era is a revisionist view of his failed tenure. Again, if he was such an innovative HC why was he let go? You can "what if" yourself about Chan Gailey being in Marrone's situation until you are exhausted. It means little. Based on the record Marrone outperformed Gailey. That's what it is about. You need not to forget it when you are resorting to your "what if" arguments that prove little. I'll glady take every qb on that list over Orton. There isn't a team in the NFL who wouldn't take the rookie Bortles over Orton as their starter. Orton was finished as a player before he even played for us. Bortles has potential to be a franchise qb. Preferring Orton over Bortles, regardless of the stats, is a position I find difficult to understand. But you are entitled to your opinion as am I.

Marrone got an 8-8 caliber of team to play at an 8-8 level. (The New England game was a default game.) Doug Marrone is far from being an upper tier HC. But he is a solid coach who got a flawedly constructed team play to its talent level. Who drafted the players?