JohnC

You are the one missing the point. Not turning over the notes and not stating his involvement, significant or not, is a procedural violation of the court procedure. Why do you think that the judge is asking questions regarding this issue? The judge's primary responsibility directly relates to how this case was handled from a procedural standpoint, even more so than delving into the flimsiness of the evidence. Again, rehashing my prior post, whether Pash was actually involved in the investigation is not the overriding issue here. What is known is that Pash was involved in the write-up/editing of the report. To what extent? He is not saying. Did he shape the report to favor his assumptions? Who knows? It's not known because he is not sharing his notes which he is obligated to. Even a zealous partisan on this issue acknowledges that he should have notified the opposition of his involvement in the report. That in itself is not a trivial issue. It is enough of an issue to have the league's judgment overturned. No one can not deny that Pash is associated with the league office headed by Goodell. There is a basic legal concept that underpins the law that has been trampled i.e. fairness. That is the overarching theme that the judge is addressing in his court. Can an arbitrator who is involved in the investigation through his proxies be qualified to make a fair judgment? What it comes down to is that you believe that the much overturned Goodell on disciplinary issues should be trusted to arbitrate cases that he is involved in. I may be stupid but I'm not that stupid. If Goodell would have recused himself in the arbitration hearing with Brady and had the case reviewed by a dispassionate and credible arbitrator this case would have been resolved with little ability to mount a challenge. So now you are admitting that Pash acted in an unethical manner by his deliberate acts of omission? And you think that it shoudln't have a bearing on how the judge rules?

Why didn't Pash who is a senior counsel for the league simply receive the report, as is? He acted inappropriately when he edited/re-shaped the report (however you want to characterize it) and didn't disclose his involvement with the report to the NFLPA. You are trying to portray Pash's acts as inadvertent and an oversight. That makes no sense. Mr. Pash is a high powered attorney who knows the law and knows how to work in high stakes legal contests. He has been in hundreds of discovery proceedings in his career. He has a full understanding of what his responsibilites are in those types of settings. My point is that when he doesn't disclose his involvement (meaningful or not) it is deliberate. He didn't follow the rules of the law/proceedings when he didn't disclose his participation in the report, regardless if it was significant or not. Why do you think the judge is asking pointed questions regarding his lack of notification to the NFLPA? You keep stressing that Pash wasn't involved in the investigation. When you re-word a report done by someone else you are certainly involved in the investigation and the development of the report. Without a doubt by subtly changing the wording of a small section of the report you can dramatically change the implication derived from the report.

On that particular day, even with Dareus, they probably wouldn't have handled the Raiders. Simply a bad day for us and a good day for them.

Are you required to follow TBD's protocol for concussed posters? No postings for 72 hrs. and until symptons of aggravation are gone.

When all is said and done Incognito was unfairly characterized in the Miami situation. No one is suggesting that Incognito didn't act foolishly and inappropriately. But I truly believe that even the misguided/clueless Incognito would have acted more kindly toward Martin if Martin, who had his issues, would have told him that he didn't want to be subjected to his "tough guy" behavior. Incognito recently made the claim that Wells who investigated the Miami situation gave a distorted report on the situation. RI said that in his report he left out the majority of responses from his teammates which in the minimum would have given a different perspective on the situation and would have put him in a more favorable light. Wells and the league have a disturbing tendency to investigate cases in a way that reflect the public outcry over behavior rather than dispassionately investigate a high profile case and let the evidence speak for itself. In my view this is what also happened in the Rice and Brady case. Or to put it simply the outcome of the investigation is pre-determined by how the league office and RG want it to turn out. Some people consider Incognito to be a bad guy. Even bad guys deserve to be treated fairly. As time has passed it is more evident to me that he wasn't treated fairly.

Every team he has played was aware of his immense talent before acquiring him. Yet every he team he played for preferred showing this uniquely prickly talent the door. All teams have a variety of personalities some of which are very challenging to put up with. When putting together a roster it isn't just about talent level. How a player fits in with the other players is a consideration. One doesn't have to be a prominent psychologist to recognize that Harvin is self-centered and acts out when things don't go the way he wants it to. Harvin is joining a team that is deficient at the qb position and in the passing game. That is a reciple for frustration not only for him but also for Watkins and Woods.With his addition you are adding a lot of fuel to a potentially hazardous situation. As I said in the prior post I am not anti-Harvin. Adding him to the receiver corps mix, already a quality grouping, is a risky proposition. Instead of bringing him into the fold the organization should have expended their resources on adding more talent to the OL which is very thin. In my view that would have been a better way to go.

It is difficult to challenge the claim that Harvin is an immensively talented player. What also can't be ignored is that the many teams he has already played for are relieved to get his petulent arse out of their town as soon as possible. What happens when our less than prolific passers can't get him the ball to sufficiently satisfiy him? How is this prickly player going to respond when Watkins is targeted much more than he is? Is his volatile presence going to affect Robert Woods who has displayed his own frustrations at his lack of involvement in the office. It is not an unreasonable debate whether it is better to have a less talented but more complementary teammate on the roster than risk having a player who is capable of creating debilitating tension in the lockerroom. As a recent article on Harvin indicated (to me) is that he is a self-absorbed hot personality who blames everyone else for the issues that surround him. I'm not pro or anti-Harvin. What I am is very wary of this character. Most often you get what you get instead of getting what you hope to get. Caveat Emptor!!!!

I originally stated Nikell Robey as my underrated player. After a little thought I want to add Stefan Charles to the list. He is unsung but quietly does a good job as a reserve. I'm also going to add Kujo to my list as overrated. He is too slow and sluggish to develop into a quality OT. Henderson struggled last year. He is still a better option than the more highly drafted player from Alabama. Even the Alabama aficianado, NYC Bill, had qualms about him when he was drafted. And that is a very condemning comment coming from someone so unblushingly tilted toward the Crimson Tide. Few people have unrealistic expectations regarding TT. As you indicated based on his limited playing time he is an unknown prospect. But that isn't the issue when rating him. The fundamental issue is does he give the team a better chance to succeed. In my view from what I have seen of him (admittedly limited) he give this team a better chance to succeed over the less than sterling qbs he is competing against.

Few people are projecting TT to be great. What most proponents want is an upgrade at the position. Believing that he is our best qb option is far projecting him into the elite status for qbs. The way this team is structured with a very good defense competent qb play will allow this team to be a serious team. Our GM was very candid when describing the team's qb situation. He basically stated that all he can reasonable expect is for our starting qb to play adequately, smartly and not hurt us. Most sensible fans have few illusions where our qbs rank compared to their positional colleagues in the game.

Be careful. Goodell under the terms of the CBA is going to order you to turn over your phone.

What really surprised me about TT was not his running ability. That attribute was already recognized to the point that some were using it as a criticism of his style of play. It was his polished throwing ability that I wasn't aware of. He is accurate, has a relatively strong arm and is capable of throwing with a good touch. He is capable of throwing to all areas of the field while Cassel can't. If TT can be half as smart and judicious as Russell Wilson (not putting him in the same category as a player) he has a much greater upside than the limited Cassel. In my estimation not only is TT a better player than Cassel but he also provides an additional dimension to our offense. From the small sample size of his play I found that his style of play is not undisciplined. His instincts are sound and he has a good feel for pressure. For my taste (survivability factor) he runs across downfield too much, but that unbridled tendency can be toned down with good coaching and a receptive player.

I didn't consider the brother connection. Excellent observation. If he makes the practice squad then his potential as a player will be recognized. It's still a long journey for him but it will be an interesting story to follow.

You make an excellent point. His game is so limited that after a few games his primary asset in the passing game, short and quick passes, will be taken away by the defenses. At least with TT there is the potential to improve the more he plays. With Cassel the limited range of his game will certainly affect the receivers and even his backs because the defenses will be defending a very limited portion of the field. With TT and his passing and running range the defense will have to defend the whole field.

Maybe with respect to EJ's development it might be in his interest to sit and learn. Too much was expected out of him too quickly because he was a first round pick. The reality is that he never should have been a first round pick. At best he should have been a third round pick who was a developmental prospect. From what little I have seen of TT what has impressed me the most is his ability to throw. He has an excellent throwing motion and he throws a nice ball. His accuracy level is immensely better than EJ's regardless what the stats might indicate. My feeling is if you are going to be wrong on a qb then be wrong with the qb who exhibits the most talent and potential. If it doesn't work out then go to the next option.

Antonio Gates was a basketball player from Kent that had terrific physical attributes that were developed. Maybe somewhere down the road Manhertz can develop his physical talents and become a good football player. He seems to have the desire and work ethic to give it a good go. I wish him the best and give credit to New Orleans for their wide ranging search for talent.

What it indicates to me is that they want to make a decision on whether it is worth keeping him on the roster and investing in his development. The staff knows what Cassel is capable of. He is what he is without being worried about what he can do. From what little I have seen of TT it is apparent (to me) he is much more advanced as a qb than EJ is. Even if EJ is given more time with the starters in practice that doesn't mean that he is moving up the ranks. At least that is how I see it at this time. I would rather have TT start and have Cassel as a backup. Cassel's game can be categorized as being very cautious and limited. If that is the case then why not start TT who has more upside. The coaches can tone down his game to limit his mistakes. Although TT is relatively inexperienced he is a smart player who has tools to make plays. Cassel would make an excellent mentor and reasonable backup. TT stats in preseason are deceptive. The numbers are not overwhelming because the body of work is so limited. But even with an abreviated amount of playing time it is apparent that he has a good arm and throws a nice ball. He has a tendency to rely on his legs too quickly but in general his pocket presence is good. In my opinion if you are going to gamble on a qb then why not gamble on a qb who has some impressive physical skills and a versatility in his game. TT is not being handed a starting job. He is winning the job against the qbs he is competing against. And that is how it should be done.

I don't recall one media person (radio, newspaper or TV) who covers the Bills and watch most of the practices, scrimmages and games who doesn't believe that EJ is the third qb on the roster. Everyone makes the same critical observations that he is inconsistent with his accuracy and performance in general. The consensus is so overwhelming that there is little room to disagree with the assessment about him. It's obvious that the coaching staff has made the same assessment because they have a stake in making the right judgment on who is going to start. At first I was leaning toward Cassel because I thought it was the safest way to go. But after watching TT I prefer him as the starter. Whether the staff selects Cassel or TT at least I would understand their rationale.

However you want to distribute the cap money doesn't alter the fact that their football decisions regarding personnel were dismal. Lankston Walker and Derrick Dockery collectively got a lot of money. Whether they were paying high end money or low end money they were mediocre players. Chris Williams got a sizeable contract after his history of play with multiple teams demonstrated that he was a below average player. His selection not only demonstrated a poor utilization of the cap but it also demonstrated a poor talent evaluation. Few people will argue that the franchise's business model hurt the franchise in keeping their own talent. But as crippling as the financial restraints were the lack of quality talent assessment and pricing the talent was an anchor in how the franchise competed against the other franchises.

The Bills traded consistently all-pro LT Jason Peters for a pick that is used for Woods, a center. If you factor in that the organization insanely overpaid for Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery while holding the line on Peters it is understandable why the OL has been in a state of flux for quite a while. Let's not even go into the Levitre departure that resulted in players such as Colin Brown playing on the line. The judgments this franchise has made with respect to the OL have cumulatively been a disaster! Most of the decisions were underpinned more by money than by talent level. Past business model decisions trumping football decisions have crippled this franchise. Gladly that nickel and dime mind set has changed under new ownership.

Bill, Equivocating is not acceptable. Total submission or nothing. I am very confident that you will come around. I'm also confident that you will be very troubled when he will eventually be paid at the elite CB level when his next contract comes up.

Bill, You are a recalcitrant! How much more haranguing is required until you submit to reason? Maybe your Crimson Tide bias is clouding your objectivity on this sterling Gamecock???? Under rated: Nikell Robey Over rated: Maybe better performances from players playing next to him will uplift his play. I suspect that because he is a such a good communicator with the media (especially with his segment on WGR) that he is rated higher than his performance level would warrant.

There is no doubt that Steve Young is one of the best qbs in the modern era. He was one of the best athletes to play that position. I would still place him behind John Elway who almost every year carried his average team to the post season. When Elway finally won a SB at the end of his career he was a shell of what he was in his prime. The current player who most resembles him is Andrew Luck.

Isn't it ironic that the clamoring crowd chortles about Brady's legacy when in reality when this foolish case is concluded the person who will come out of this fiasco tarnished the most is Roger Goodell. This case continues to unravel in front of a no-nonsense judge in a court deliberately selected by the league. Not only is the judge exposing that the facts of the case are questionable, but even more importantly the process is glaringly tainted. The below link is from a Washington Post column by Christine Brennan. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/deflategate-judge-doesnt-seem-likely-to-rubber-stamp-roger-goodells-decisions/2015/08/21/034f8a26-4747-11e5-846d-02792f854297_story.html

You make an incisive point regarding the old guard regime to the new regime starting with Nix to the Whaley era. I wasn't enamored with Buddy but I give him credit and acknowledge that he had an understanding on how to build a roster. He represented the line of demarcation from the anachoristic way of running a franchise to a more modern approach. He wasn't always right with his decisions (no one is) but he had a clue. As you noted Whaley is more conceptual and forward-thinking in his approach to building a roster. I also have issues on some of his personnel and drafting decisions but overall he has a more modern approach to the GM position compared to the befuddled old guard in the last stages of the Wilson/Littman era. Saying someone is smarter than I am is not a major accomplishment or necessarily a compliment.

What's the difference between "unwarranted" and "warranted" condescension? Not trying to be antagonistic. Just curious.