JohnC

The Jets are a better team without him and we are less of a team with him. His act is so tiresome and unsophisticated. When your head coach lacks maturity and discipline it is not surprising that he sets the tone that flows down to the players. One of my favorite head coaches in the NFL is Bruce Ariens of the Cardinals. He doesn't have much of a public persona but he is a football man of substance. He knows how to build a roster and to get the best out of his players. The HCing change with him in place has made a noticeable positive difference. Rex is a salesman full of a lot of bombast that can dazzle in the interview room. But when it comes down to the serious business of coaching he lacks gravitas. This clown coach was foolish enough to throw barbs at Belichick prior to an upcoming game. The New England HC responded dismissively by saying his record against him spoke for itself. What is discouraging is that he was not only given a five year deal but he was also given authority to go directly to the owner, bypassing the GM, if he felt there was a need. What were the Pegulas thinking????

If you think that bringing in another GM is going to be a remedy to our current situation then you are deluding yourself. Our franchise has a history of instability. Start over again with a new front office is going to set back the organization, not advance it. What mostly ails this franchise is the same thing that has plagued it (among many things) for a generation is an unsatisfactory qb situation. Whether Whaley is occupying the boss seat or someone else the same problem needs to be addressed by either occupant. You are much more jaundiced in your view of Whaley than I am. Overall, I believe he has done a good job. He has modernized a front office that was very archaic. Has he made mistakes? Of course! What GM hasn't? Maybe we will get lucky with TT at qb???? I'm upbeat about him with major concerns over his durability. What I can say with confidence is that firing Whaley would be not a solution so much as it would be a disastrous response to our current situation. Don't bother asking me about Rex. His selection got my blood boiling. An exhibition of lamentable stupidity!

Carr and Bridgewater are the young franchise qbs for their respective teams. Each player was available when we were drafting. Are they better than TT? I like TT a lot but it still has not been established that he can be a starter in this league and that he is durable enough. Would I take either one of the young qbs ahead of TT? Yes, mostly because I think with their size compared to TT they are more likely to be more durable. I don't believe that the Bills have much of a chance to be a playoff team. However, if the Bills come away knowing that TT can be their starter then I will consider that a major accomplishment.

Derek Carr and Terry Bridgewater were available with trade downs last year. The Raiders and the Vikings have their franchise qbs in place for the next decade or so. I'm not saying they are elite qbs but they are legitimate franchise qbs with promising futures. The issue comes down to if you don't hit on a qb selection then you can't step back. You then with greater urgency and desperation get back into the market, (draft, free agency or trade}, and keep trying to address the qb need. If you fail in your attempts you simply keep at it. When teams drafting after you find solutions you can't make the lame claim that we weren't in position to resolve a debilitating problem.

I brought this up in another thread so I'm being repetitious but looking back instead of drafting Watkins with the trade up maneuver we could have traded down and selected either Derick Carr or Terry Bridgewater. Our qb position would now be secured and the rebuilding process would be accelerated. It doesn't matter what the front office does. We will have an incomplete and a fringe team until the qb issue is addressed.

This team never was destined to be a deep playoff team. If you bought into the hype then you took the bait of exaggerated talk and expectations compared to the reality of the situation. Until the qb position is adequately staffed little else matters. The Bills were a fringe playoff team before the season started with the assumption that the qb play wouldn't hurt their thin chances for qualifying for the post season. The EJ question is settled. He is a reasonable backup, nothing more. The next issue is whether TT can be a decent starter and be durable enough. Watkins is a tremendous talent. He is capable of being one of the best receivers in the game. But on this team his talent is not going to be maximized because of its caliber of qbing. The Falcons payed a heavy price to jump up to get Julio Jones. It was reasonable for them to make that expensive draft maneuver because they had a very good qb in Ryan. That wasn't the situation with the Bills. It would have made more sense to first solidify the qb position and then add the playmakers. Looking back the better approach would have been to draft Derek Carr or Terry Bridgewater (with trade downs) and get the qb position secured. From there you are in a better position to properly build your roster.

I'm happy to see you posting your thoughts on the game. This is the best thread on the board. Until there is good qb play little else matters. Anyone who still believes that EJ can be a franchise qb has little credibility to draw from. I'm not concerned so much about a playoff run this year. I want to find out if TT can be a quality starter in this league and if he is durable enough. Bill, I agree with you that I thought Kujo played reasonably well. It's also glaringly obvious that Incognito is not only our best offensive lineman but is also one of the best guards in the league.

EJ has physical tools but he doesn't have a feel for the game. He is just too mechanical. There is little deception or much nuance to how he plays qb. I think it was the fomer Bill LB Paul P who stated that when playing against him just follow his eyes and you know where the ball is going. EJ can make passes downfield that leave you in awe with his strong arm. However in general his erratic level of accuracy is a disqualifier. Even on the passes he completes his ball placement is horrendous, leaving the receiver in a vulnerable posture. EJ reminds me of Jason Cambell who also had good physical tools. He can carve out a lucrative long career as a backup but as a starter he will never be a finished product and a starter. He's a good guy with limitations that he can't overcome.

McCoy is a talent. He is playing hurt.

Trading Cassel was a reckless gamble. Whaley's investment and attachment to EJ has put this franchise in a very vulnerable situaion.

From a drafting position standpoint not coming out last year hurt him. But from a player development standpoint staying and developing his game, even if he is drafted at a lower position, will be useful when he enters the pro ranks . In his college career he has minimal playing experience. What good is it being drafted sooner and higher and be less prepared to paly in the pro game. What is evident with his play this year is that he still has a long way to go to be a polished qb and be adequately enough prepared to make the transition to the pro game. When you watch qb such as Connor Cook or Goff you realize how rudimentary his skills are at this point. It's not about how high you will be drafted so much as putting oneself in a better position to succeed at the next level.

Thanks for you response. Very helpful. Another question regarding flying and injuries. If a player has an injury such as a sprained ankle or knee is flying in a pressurized plane presents any additional health risks?

Respectfully disagree. I'm not suggesting that Wood is an all-star center but I consider him (this year) to be a solid center. As I said in the prior post upgrade the play of the qb and an upgrade on OL performance will follow. In the Cincinatti game I thought the OL played well. They did a good job in pass blocking and there were lanes for McCoy to follow. Your eyes are more jaundiced than mine.

There were strong rumors that teams after making their first round pick were going to jump back into the first round with trade deals. I distinctly recall that the Eagles were a team considering that option. As you well know on draft day rumors are floating all over the place. Some have merit, some don't and some teams float rumors to deliberately deceive and mask their real intentions.

I didn't take your response as a defense of EJ. What I remember regarding the EJ draft year was that there were rumors that the Eagles (as you noted} were very interested in him and the Bills feared were considering moving up to draft him. It would be interesting to know if both Nix and Whaley were high on EJ or if Nix was the one who favored the big qb. From what I have read and heard it was Nix who was determined to get a franchise qb prospect out of that draft before he left the scene for good. In the year in which Russel Wilson was drafted Nix was asked on WGR if he considered drafting a qb. The Bills selected the WR speedster. Graham, in the third round. Buddy told the radio host that he was considering a qb in the next round but another team took the qb he was interested in. He wouldn't say which qb he was interested. Speculation was either Kirk Cousins or Russel Wilson. I suspect it was Cousins because Buddy usually favored big over small. If the Bills could maneuver to draft Goff or Cook I would be ecstatic.

There are some people with medical backgrounds who regularly post here.. Is it harmful for someone with concussion symptons to fly? Just curious.

It doesn't matter if other teams had him rated as a first round qb. We made the selection, not the other organizations. It is easy to understand why he was rated as a middle to late first rounder: he had physical tools, was a high character guy and impressive work ethic. The Bills knew that his mechanics were off and as you have astutely observed from the beginning his footwork were not very sound. The majority of scouts critically noted that he played in a simplistic offense that didn't stress progressions. Even his HC in college was very circumspect in giving him a high evaluation. The Bills took a risk on a talent with the hope that he could be developed. It's still relatively early in the process but what is apparent is that he is an earnest player with limitations that odds are can not be overcome. In my view he can carve out a good long term prosperous career as a backup. Nothing more. Without a doubt he is the type of player/person one roots for. However, he is not a starter type qb and will never be.

If it's not real then why did I smell something so rancid? The odor was so potent that it cleared out my congested nasal cavity!

When you pay $1.4 B it is difficult to say no to the boss. When the Pegulas bought the Sabres they made some staffing decisions rooted in nostalgia rather than objective hockey reasoning. It didn't take long for them to step back and let the hockey people make the decisions. In that way you can hold them accountable for their mistakes instead of your mistakes.

The Pegulas were the most influential party in hiring Rex. They were involved in the interview with him and came away very impressed. They gave him a five year contract.

In the Bengal game I thought our OL played well. McCoy had running lanes and took advantage of it. The OL also did a good job protecting EJ on pass plays. Incognito is playing as well as any guard in the league. His presence has helped the linemen playing alongside of him. What elevates the play of the OL (as you suggest) is the play of the qb. If the qb decisively goes into pass play it helps the OL. If the qb naturely moves in the pocket then that also helps out the OL in pass blocking. EJ certainly is not an accurate passer. But in this game I saw him efficiently move up in the pocket to avoid the pressure and get the pass off. His problem in that game was not the OL but the problems associated with his inaccurarcy.Even when he completes passes his ball placement is horrendous. . Every year fans seem to pick out a player and label him as a weak link. For the past couple of years Eric Wood has been singaled out as a problem. I wouldn't put Wood in the elite category but I would consider him as an effective center. For the past few years Wood has played alongside some very mediocre linemates. That certainly has diminished his effectiveness. The bottom line is if you elevate the play of the qb you will elevate the play of the OL.

I absolutely agree with your comments regarding the defense. Whose fault is that? The organization selected a HC whose specialty is defense. We went from an elite hard charging DL to a gimmicky defense that has befuddled itself. That's on the coaching staff. The owners selected a HC who was fired and whose team was in a state of turmoil when he left. The Jets went out and hired a HC who wasn't very charismatic but was very substative. The Jets have found their footing while the Bills, especially the defense, are a very fractured unit. Under the prior DC Mario Williams was one of the best rushing DEs in the league. Under the current coaching staff he is a player who is lost and appears to be disinterested. The problem with Rex is that he is trying to prove how smart and innovative he is. In my humble opinion he outsmarted himself and set this franchise back. He took an asset and damaged it. He was given a five year contract. An inconsequential franchise done in by its own peculiar decisions. Where is the common sense??? There are things you can control and there are things you can't. We don't have a good qb situation. Everyone is aware of that. But we did have a dominant defense last year under a different DC and HC. A new regime comes in and what was the heart and soul of this team has been castrated. Dramatically changing the scheme of one of the best defenses in the league is a disaster. Sometimes when you try to outsmart everyone else you end up outsmarting yourself.

The point I'm stressing is that having a strong defense will not overcome or compensate for major deficiency at the qb position. Last year our defense was elite Marrone took a very conservative offensive approach because he recognized how bad our OL was and how mediocre our qbing was. DM reaized very early on that EJ was not capable. Some of the conflict centered around EJ and how the HC was so dismissive of his ability to play. Marrone was right in his stance on EJ. Our record was 9-7. The team's upside, regardless of its dynamic defense, was limited because of the inadequate qb play. Especially compared to this year's new loquacious HC DM maximized the the team's record relative to its limitatiion on offense. Doug Whaley was bold in the Watkins deal. I believe that if Watkins played on a team with a good qb he would be ranked at nearly the top level. But what return are you going to get out of your receiver investment (a position dependent on the qb) when there is such a void at the qb position? Would making a deal for a Nick Foles type qb been a wiser move than dealing assets that could have been used to acquire a qb by trade or in the draft? I have never been a Rex fan. I didn't understand why there was such an appeal for him by the Pegula's or anyone else. He got fired and his replacement has stabilized the team that was in turmoil when he coached it. Other than be more personable than the former dour HC what was so attractive about him? There is no doubt that the scheme on defense has to be altered. But the core problem for this team is the same as it has been since the Kelly departure: a need for a good qb. You could adjust the scheme on defense that is more suitable to the talent and you can upgrade the OL and it still won't make a significant difference. It's about the qb! All other issues are secondary compared to the primary need. Maybe Tyrod can be good enough to make us respectable? Maybe not?

Our OL is average at best. Do you know what would dramatically improve the performance of the OL with the same players? Good qb play. In yesterday's game EJ had more than adequate time to get the ball off. The problem is he is not adept at reading defenses and his accuracy level is atrocious. Even when he completes passes his ball placement is horrible. We both agree that Whaley not only misjudged Manuel as a prospect but that he is also too invested in him as a pro. My point in the prior post is that with an upgrade at the level of qbing the deficiencies associated with the rest of the offensive unit would be limited. Watkins has been plagued with injuries. But the point he was making in his complaints regarding not being targeted is valid. The team paid a steep price to acquire him yet he is underutilized. The problem isn't not being targeted so much as the problem is that we don't have the talent level at qb that is capable of getting him the ball. If you watched the Cincinatti game Dalton threw the ball to covered receivers who made big plays. We don't have that type of qb who can convert those types of tight passes. Again, my point is that having a better qb overcomes existing deficiencies. Until the qb issue is resolved these same types of conversation will continue. It is my belief that even with a poorly constructed roster you can field a serious team if the qb position is properly addressed. That is not to say that there aren't other issues regarding coaching and the defense but having good qb play takes a lot of steam out of the other problem areas. I have never been a Rex Ryan fan. Compare the Rex Ryan Jets over the past two years with the current Tod Bowles regime. The difference in team maturity and discipline is starkly evident under each HC. But that is another discussion. What I would love to know is how much Whaley was involved with his selection or was this an owner being infatuated with a glib talking former HC who was just fired from his prior job???

That's the problem---too many teams are better than we are. Beating a bad team doesn't idicate how good you are; but not beating good teams does tell you how mediocre you are.