JohnC

This year will be different. Next year will be different. The year after next will be different. The next year after the next year will be different. The next year after the next year after the next year will be different. The next year after the next year after the next year after the next year will be different. The next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year will be different. The next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year will be different. The next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year will be different. The next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year after the next year will be different. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etcl..........................................................................................................................................................etc.

This is the link that I provided Doc on the subject matter that he brought up. http://www.wgrz.com/...-fight/45214836

This is a WGRZ segment in which a Buffalo defense attorney speculating on this case brings up some of the same points that you are making. http://www.wgrz.com/news/investigation-continues-into-philly-bar-fight/45214836

You work with what you got. If the taping system didn't work inside then there is nothing else that can be done. I'm confident the owners and the establishment would not be foolish enough to manipulate the system in order to favor one party over another. That in itself would be a chargeable offense. If there was film footage including phone footage that doesn't mean that it would show the origin and context of the situation. It doesn't indicate what was initially said before the fight which could be very important. The phone footage that shows McCoy getting involved in the fracas and then be pulled back only to then re-engage is damaging to his case. At least that is how I see it. This case is going to rely on victim statements, witness statements, medical statements, a receipt proving ownership of the disputed bottles and what can be gotten from the camera phones. Have McCoy and his crew given statements to the police? I don't know for sure but I doubt it. It's very likely that McCoy's attorney told him and the crew to say nothing. , I'm hoping there will be some legal action this week so that there is greater clarification on this chaotic scene. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle one is on this conflict it is better that the DA's office takes its time and be thorough. It realizes this is a high profile case and it knows that McCoy has a high quality attorney representing him. There is another interesting issue arising from the McCoy group involvement assuming there is an indictment. Will McCoy's attorney also represent the others in his party? What if his attorney recommends that since he has so much at stake compared to his dependents he should seek a separate trial, if it comes to that. Can they afford competent representation? Will public defenders be used? Will McCoy pay for the attorneys of the others if he or they decide to separate their cases? Assuming this goes to trial the time period for a resolution of this case for McCoy will be extended if there are separate trials because the big fish is more likely to be last on the DA's trial list. You start with the minnows and then work your way up to the big fish. My opinion almost from the start was that the charges were going to be aggravated assault against McCoy and the crew. Bu in the end after a cool down period my guess is that McCoy's attorney will work out a deal with the prosecutor.However, if any of the injuries turn out to be very serious and long lasting to permanent then the prosecutor's position will harden. Then the civil action will follow.

Too much attention is given to the non-functioning security tape. Even if it was working it wouldn't necessarily give you as much useful information as many people are indicating. If the tape was working it could indicate who the participants were (which is already known) but it wouldn't necessarily tell you what precipitated the brawl and what was said between the parties before the fight. Security tapes are notoriously not clear/sharp and the location of the cameras could be such that they are too misaligned to the location of the event to give you a good rendering of the event. Let's not forget there were phone camera footage that is very useful. It captured a portion of the fight, it showed people who were punching and stomping and it showed McCoy not only involved in the fight but also pulled away and then re-engaging. Those phone shots are much more valuable to determining what happened than most security cameras would. And make no mistake about it they are damning to McCoy and his crew.

Stunningly so. Clearly many people witnessed the brawl but probably few people saw what precipitated it. When McCoy was asked if it was he who was in the tape he responded by saying no, that was my doppelganger. He was then asked if he knew what a doppelganger was. He said no but my attorney does. .

My point is basically not even an anonymous source has come out and suggested that the cops (not known to be cops) were acting inappropriately. That's not to say that they did or did not act aggressively but I haven't heard that it is the case.. There were plenty of people who were close to the scuffle yet not one account indicated that they instigated the conflict. (Of course that doesn't mean that some people haven't come forward and given accounts that indicate otherwise.) As far as the FOP and Mayor's comments that is noise from people who were not at the event and know nothing about the actual event. The primary evidence that outsiders have is the tape. The tape showed McCoy in action, being pulled away and then returning to the fray. Not a good look. By the end of the week the DA will make a determination. I think it is going to result in aggravated assault charges for all of the McCoy crew, you think otherwise. Your opinion is as reasonable as mine. If the DA decides to charge that will only be the beginning of the legal wrangling.

As far as the FOP they did what any union would do in expressing support for their members, even before the facts are known. There is nothing unusual about their response. As far as the mayor commenting on the incident I have already expressed my disdain for his conduct. He acted in a self-serving political way trying to capitalize on an incident that he has little knowledge of. There is nothing new about politicians exhibiting poor judgment and acting irresponsibly in the belief that they can benefit from the situation. There is nothing unusual about the police continuing on with their investigation even after they filed criminal charges and before and after the DA has decided to officially charge the parties involved. As I said in my response to 3rd and 12 # 1637 a flawed police investigation doesn't necessarily mean that the conclusion they come to is not the same conclusion of a more thorough investigation. Hopefully, by the end of the week there should be more clarity as to what happened or is being claimed. That is only the beginning of a much longer saga.

The club should have notified the police. But from their standpoint if they threw out the participants of the fight then in their mind the issue was satisfactorily resolved. It's not surprising that the club didn't want a police report made regarding a fight in their establishment for licensing and reputation reasons. Without a doubt the police arriving on the scene sooner is better than later. In this case I place more responsibility on the victims for the delayed notification. But as it stands the victims of the pummeling did file the police report that started the official legal action. I'm not sure of the time line when the injured parties went to the hospital so I won't comment on that. However, an imperfect (flawed) investigation can come to the same conclusion that a better investigation would arrive at. Again, hopefully by the end of this week there should be a better understanding as to what happened or what is being claimed. Then an extended saga will follow.

McCoy has his crew and you have your crew. Be careful--- they will get you in trouble. Remember the simple rule in clubbing: Keep your hands and feet to yourself!

Always have but you just didn't notice it.

From a number of accounts that I have read the cop group had a receipt for the champagne. That is not to say that reading about the accounts makes it true. You are right that everyone at the event was not interviewed. But there isn't a need to interview everyone at the event. If a number of witnesses including the staff give the same account supporting the victims' account that certainly would validate their version. I have not read one account that indicates that the police group was drunk or unruly before the clash. Not hearing anything bad about their behavior in the club isn't proof but it's interesting that no one, not even anonymously, that I am aware of has made the claim that the cops' behavior was out of line. What's interesting is that I have not heard that any of the McCoy group has been interviewed by the police. Not hearing about it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. By the end of this week we should get a better picture of what happened and what the claims are. I still believe that everyone in the McCoy party is going to be charged with aggravated assault. (That's an opinion.)

We strive for consistency!

If Terry Pegula would have done the same due diligence as the DA's office we wouldn't have been stuck with Rex. Being careful and thorough before acting is the right thing to do.

We don't intentionally lose---it's happenstance. Why win when it will only raise the expectations! Don't blame me it was Whaley who recommended Rex to the boss! Going to the games is more fun than having one's prostrate checked!

Losing is not forever---just most of the time. Our HC is a magician----he got hired after his NY fiasco. Be religious: Have faith in us. A new positive attitude---counting almost wins as wins and losses as temporary setbacks that don't count as losses in the loss column.

If you keep complaining we are moving to St. Louis. A marketing campaign soliciting slogans from the fans was won by a Mister PTR: It's the fans fault!

Fans demand too much----leave us alone.

If you can't handle losing you are a baby. If your high standards are not met then just lower them. It's not about the product on the field--- its about the sex and boozing in the parking lot. We encourage you to be insanely drunk so you can't comprehend what is happening on the field. Eventually the next generation will be pleasantly surprised. We are improving----DWI arrests have gone up.

He wasn't even indicted. The bottom half of the link goes into the wife situation. The Tom Sestak and Jim Dunaway duo was formidable. At the time Sestak was the best of the best. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/33449-jim-dunaway-the-true-notorious-big http://www.engagingnews.us/select/Jim+Dunaway.html

Your response was clarifying. Maybe this week we will get more specific information as to what is being alleged to have happened from the prosecution side. Then it has to be proven. If I decide to stomp someone into oblivion I will give you a call. I hope your hourly rate is reasonable!

Thanks for the response. It was informative. But let me go to a situation that may or not have happened in this case. If everyone in the aggressive group is participating in the pummeling of the victims but it can't be determined who did what when a victim was hurt to an aggravated assault level then isn't this a collective action type of event and a collective responsibility situation. My example that I gave was not a good example. The primary point that I wanted to make (and did it poorly) is that there are situations where the action of one person of a participating group can fall to the others who didn't want the situation to escalate to that extent.

On this issue I am confused. I don't know for sure. That is why I asked for someone who is better schooled in the law. We should get a better sense of what the law and collective culpability issue is when/if the charges are brought. The issue that I am not referring to is premeditation. There was none. The example I cited wasn't necessarily a good example because there was premeditation in that scenario in which all were part of. The point I was making dealt with the point that the act of one (in certain situations) can result in responsibility for the other participants. In a brawl situation it is very difficult to determine who hurt who in a specific sense. It seems to me that in this situation that everyone in the aggressive group were participating in the fight. Again, I'm not making a declarative statement on this issue. But my inclination is that all in the McCoy party will be charged with aggravated assault. That is speculation on my part.

This is an assault case. I was only using the robbery case as an example for collective responsibility. In a brawl situation you don't have to prove specifically who hit who and who hurt who. There is a reckless nature to the behavior of the group in which they are collectively responsible for. If there is a lawyer in the house I would appreciate some input to clarify this issue.

If you don't know then just make it up. It's acceptable here. Rules are very loose here.