JohnC

No we don't know why it is clear that the cops didn't immediately report the incident. Tell me what it is. You bring up the displaying of a gun as a problem. That certainly is a problem with a prompt response and with a late response especially as how it is related to the level of drinking at this club and at another club.

Your response is perplexing and makes little sense to me. The police took the complaint from the off duty police a day after the event and then in short order filed for an arrest warrant. This was in a matter of days. The delay in bringing charges isn't because the police weren't pushing for a warrant to be issued. The delay was due to the fact that the DA slowed the process down after they received the request for a warrant. For the DA the case at that point had too many questions that needed to be answered before it met their standard and became a more credible case. It doesn't matter whether the police interviewed a few or many people. If the there are still many questions that needed to be answered in order to prove a case then you continue on with the investigation until there is a better understanding of what happened. Again, it is the DA's office that is directing the department to continue on with the investigation to strengthen the case that it brought to their office. It's obvious that the DA's office was not satisfied with what the police had presented to them. With respect to the issue of the delay in reporting the event that you continue to harangue.Doc over it is very material for a variety of reasons For one the police broke their own protocol by delaying in reporting the event that they were involved with. The delay wouldn't be a major issue if the off duty cops were civilians but that is not the case here. They were experienced policemen who knew they were required to immediately report such an event. Questions relating to the timing of the reporting of the event are questions that the DA wants answered. If there is a trial that issue is certainly going to come up. There are two sides to this case that need to be clarified: the facts and the process/handling. Even if the facts do favor one side how the case was handled by the complainants and the police will be important considerations for the DA's office to consider before making a judgment as to how to proceed.

I would not be reluctant to draft him in the second round and let him use the year to rehab if necessary. If healthy he's a top ten talent. Well worth the investment.

I don't know what the outcome is going to be and the determination that the DA is going to make. But it is apparent to me that the police who received the complaint didn't adequately investigate the case before sending up their paperwork for an arrest warrant. There were plenty of red flags with the complaint that should have made the police act with more thorough and caution. The thrust of most of my responses deal more with the sloppiness of the process than with the issue of who is guilty of whatever. It is the DA's office that is acting most competently and professionally in this saga.

I did not read one account where the police had interviewed the other parties. McCoy lawyered up early and then changed attorneys. If there is evidence that I am wrong about the police interviewing McCoy and his group before the paperwork was sent to the DA for an issuance of a warrant I will acknowledge my error. I do know that the DA's office very recently met with McCoy and his lawyer. The reason why the police quickly acted with a petition for a warrant is they don't like their brothers getting their asses kicked in without there being a penalty. When they made their complaint some of them were badly battered. They got one version of the event without working too hard to get a fuller explanation as to what happened. There is nothing unusual about police protecting their own members from outsiders. There is a tribal mentality working here as reflected by the mayor's immediate response before he knew what actually happened.

The police received the complaint the day after the incident. Within a couple or few days this case was brought to the DA's office with a recommendation for an arrest warrant. I'm not aware that the police even interviewed the other parties in the incident before they sent up the petition for the warrant. There were plenty of red flags associated with the injured complainants regarding late notification of the incident, the delay in receiving medical attention, where they received the medical attention that was far away from a number of other medical facilities that were closer, the amount of drinking before the event at another establishment, the amount of drinking at the location of the incident, drinking while driving, using their badges to curry favor for themselves and others, the number of witnesses they interviewed and the number of phone videos they reviewed. The DA is doing a lot of the work that should have been done up front by the police department that received the complaint. If you believe that the police department did their due diligence in investigating this case before sending the paperwork to the DA's office then ask yourself why has the DA's office not made a judgment yet on how the case is going to be handled? Obviously they have more questions that need to be answered.

The difference is that in this case the police department took the complaint and prematurely took it to the DA's office to have an arrest warrant issued. There was little follow-up by the department to determine the merits of the case before it brought the case forward. The police department tried to ramrod this case through without even talking to the accused parties. That is not to say that they would have talked to the police but from what I know (or think I know) the department didn't do much investigating before going forward. It's the DA's office that is asking the tough questions and are not up to this point satisfied with what they have heard. What the DA's office is doing now should have been done by the police department when the complaint was brought to them. By not exhibiting much objectivity and fairness after receiving the complaint the department severely diminished their credibility of the process in this case. I want to make it clear I'm not even bringing up the issue of what happened at who is at fault. But it is fair to say and easy to say that this case was handled very poorly from the outset. Without a doubt that is going to be a significant factor on the DA's decision regarding this case.

Even if I were willing to put his Jet history aside and view him with a clean slate how can anyone not come away with the assessment that the team he coached last year underachieved? Putting aside the defensive scheme issue is anyone going to make the claim that the Bills were a disciplined team or collectively an intelligent team last year? If that isn't a reflection on coaching then nothing is. I'm not going to fall for the excuses that the Bills faced challenges that other teams don't have to contend with. Because that isn't true. Last year the schedule worked in our favor due to the unexpected struggles of teams that were expected to be good. The excuse makers won't even acknowledge that the Bills were in an excellent situation to exploit. The excuse makers won't even acknowledge the fact that the reviled former coach did a better job record wise with a lesser team than the more jovial coach did with a better team. It's gotten to the point that basic standards don't apply to the Bills because they are supposedly subjected to uncontrollable outside and inside influences that unfairly affect them. Not only do many people make excuses why we so often lose they also make excuses why other teams win. It's pathetic! This organization hired him. They get what they deserve.

An established record over a significant period of time isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

Although I got fouled up with responding to your muti-quotes I got the gist of your question. In hindsight, I'm sure the off duty cops would have taken a different course of action after seeing how things materialized. The best approach they could have taken (my opinion) was to call for the police and then let the authorities begin the process of sorting things out. The injured parties then should have gone immediately to the hospital for medical attention. They didn't do that. Because of the nature of the injuries they couldn't just walk away from the situation with minor physical and ego bruises. You have to remember their drinking exploits began at another bar so their condition was definitely impaired. I'm sure that was a factor as to why they took the course of action they took i.e. to not call the authorities and leave the scene. I can't say for sure why they filed their criminal complaints the next day. Was sick leave and job considerations a factor? I believe it was a factor but not necessarily their primary reasons for making the criminal complaint the next day. You have to remember that some of them did get hurt. It is unfair to make the assumption that they were mostly in the wrong in precipitating the brawl. That is what is now being sorted out. I still think there is a good chance that someone in the McCoy party is going to be charged. That issue is still up in the air. We have all been in situations that on the surface seemed relatively simple but for a variety of reasons spiraled out of control into a bigger mess. As is usually the case dealing quickly with an issue, even if you have some culpability, sooner rather than later is much better and simpler. In my opinion what changed the dynamic of this case was the caliber of legal representation that McCoy got. The police expedited the case to the DA's office. The DA knew from the beginning that whatever was presented was going to be challenged from the facts standpoint and just as importantly from the process standpoint. That is why the DA's office is being so meticulous and judicious. A lot of things have gone wrong stemming from this chaotic incident. But the DA's office has acted smartly and with integrity. The moral of the story is when fools to the left engage with fools to the right it's not surprising that you end up with more than you bargained for.

Not everyone in the party was injured. There was a fight where there were injuries. If you are hurt you don't have to remain on the scene. Your first imperative is to get medical attention. The fastest way to do that is to call for an ambulance. You can go to the hospital and still have a call made. (one of them was obligated to do). In this case the parties didn't immediately seek medical attention. From my understanding that wasn't done until a later time and they didn't go to a medical facility that was close by. I don't understand your supervisor phone tag point. You make a call and then the authorities respond, including the supervisors. If they need to go to the hospital they will. I don't understand your point. They had the ability to call the authorities in a variety of ways. Whether they were patrol or not is irrelevant. They were sworn officers of the law.

Anyone who says that I am biased against Rex is correct. I felt that he was a mediocre coach with the Jets as his losing record indicates. My negative opinion of him was reinforced after what I witnessed last year. I don't root against the Bills, the players or the coaches. I want the team to succeed. But I'm not going to rationalize away what is obvious to me with respect to Rex's coaching talents. His hiring made no sense to me then and it still doesn't. However, I do wish that Rex succeeds with us, improbable as it may be.

These cops didn't call the authorities because they knew not only would the police respond but supervisors would also have responded. They knew that they were in an untenable situation that couldn't be untangled or undone. If none of them would have had any significant injuries they would have just left and returned back to work without saying anything. But the problem for them was some of them sustained injuries that precluded them from going back to work. They had to document their injuries with medical reports and also explain how their injuries happened. When I say explain I'm not just saying verbally. You have to make a report and it will be examined for truthfulness. If an officer gets hurt off duty by getting involved in a police action odds are that the injuries will be treated as an on duty action and their sick leave will be covered. But if you get hurt off duty in a bike accident then you will be using your own sick leave. In my opinion these officers are claiming that they were assaulted in a bar to explain how they were injured. Again, if they wouldn't have sustained debilitating injuries I don't believe they would have pursued the criminal charges which may possibly be to simply maintain their storyline. In my opinion this is a situation that got out of hand where not everyone is right and everyone is wrong. It evolved into an incident that had serious repercussions for them at work. They are in a mess. They do need legal counsel to help them with the case and with the job.

I believe some of them did seek legal counsel. Some people speculated that it was for the future civil action but I suspect it was more for legal guidance dealing with internal job ramifications. Let's put aside the criminal complaint aspect to this case for the sake of this discussion. There were a number of police procedural transgressions committed by these late night boisterous cops. They did not make notifications that were obligated to make. Drinking and driving. Using their positions for privileges such as parking privileges and maybe comped or discounted booze. Was their police complaint accurate? If their claims are discredited do you think the DA's office will ever handle any of their cases due to credibility issues? Their biggest transgression isn't about individual deeds. There is an overriding issue that relates to publicly embarrassing and discrediting the department. Trust me they will pay for their unprofessional behavior regardless how this case turns out . It might not be right away because there are legal issues relating to the criminal investigation. That part of this case has to play out. But once that gets sorted out the department will review their conduct and they will be held accountable.

I know you didn't say they called the supervisors. What I am saying is that they knew that if they made a call that led to a police response supervisors would have responded because the incident involved off duty police and injuries to officers. These off duty cops knew exactly the type of trouble they were in. There was no purpose in calling anyone because they didn't want anyone responding to the mess.These cops were very experienced. They didn't need to confide in anyone in the department because no one in the department could do anything that would help them clean up the mess that they created.

Rex had a six year stint with the Jets. Overall he had a losing record. The qb that the HC had who replaced Rex was Fitz. He certainly stabilized the position but he was nothing special. If you believe that Rex is a good coach then go ahead and believe. I'm not sure what you can base it on.. In his first year with the Bills most people would consider the team that he coach underachieved. If you don't want to accept that assessment then believe what you want. For some people excuses are in such great supply that can't be exhausted. Excuses are made why Rex lost with the Jets. Excuses are made why the replacing HC did dramatically better. Excuses are then transferred to the next team Rex went to. It never ends. How about assessing people on how they perform? How about judging the record? Is that so unfair? The constant resorting to excuses to justify one's opinion has turned into a neurosis.How about getting back to the basics and evaluate this troubled franchise like every other franchise is judged i.e. on the team's record and performance. For some people down is up and bad is good and ineptitude is competency and dumb is smart. It's a world of delusion that I am not going to be sucked into.

The questions that the 911 dispatcher asked were relevant questions that needed to be known so that when it got sent to the relevant district/office the responding officers had a better understanding what they were responding to. I'm surprised that the dispatcher didn't ask you if the person who was threatening you had a weapon. Different jurisdictions have different 911 setups. It's not uncommon to have a police officer or representative assigned to communications to supervise and direct how certain calls dealing with criminal issues are directed. Now most patrol cars have laptops in the cars where they receive their notifications in addition to radio calls. As far as the off duty police making calls they can call 911, call directly to a police dispatch or call the district precinct. They have multiple ways of making a notification. As you know they didn't (obviously deliberately) make any notification until the next day. . Just curious was it Beerball who was threatening you? When upset he can be a menacing presence! I have a different take than you do regarding calling or not. These cops knew that they got themselves in a bind. The last thing they wanted from their perspective due to drinking and the nature of the ruckus was having police and supervisors responding to a call in which they knew was going to be troublesome for them from a job standpoint.

Ask the Jets if they are glad that they replaced Rex? The before and after with the Jets is self-evident. The before and after with the Bills is also self-evident. The hiring never made sense to me. No matter how engaging he is as a person and how sparkling he could be in an interview setting he had a large enough body of work to examine that should have disqualified him from even being interviewed. I don't know if Brandon or Whaley was pushing him as a candidate but ultimately the owners are responsible for this hire. Now the Ryan saga has to play itself out. I would love for him to be successful but I'm not counting on it. Who knows how things will turn out? Who would have bet on Trump as a republican nominee?

On a 911 call on an incident involving a crime or medical emergency the recorded call is pulled from the recording system and saved just in case an investigation or some sort of follow-up is required. The off duty non-uniformed cops certainly were aware of the process because they have used the saved recorded calls for cases they were involved with. Whenever an incident is called in regarding off duty police and injuries there is usually an immediate response not only from the rank and file officers responding to the scene but also supervisory officials. It was obvious that the off duty cops didn't want to officially get involved with the authorities (police and supervisors) because the incidents would have been documented from a variety of fronts not only associated with the investigation of the event from a criminal standpoint but also from a conduct standpoint. . My comments are not about innocence or guilt but how the process works.

Mario was done with Buffalo when he played for Buffalo last year. Maybe the tough talking HC wasn't aware of it but it was evident to most people who watched the games with their eyes open.

There was an interesting discussion on WGR Hockey Hot Line with Andrew Peters. His radio partner was discussing the possibility of acquiring Stamkos in a trade or through free agency in the offseason. Andrew Peters made the point that considering where this team was in rebuilding its roster the smarter approach would be not to sign the stud player and pay him at the top tier level but it would be a better approach to take the money that would be dedicated to him and get two or three very good players to build the roster and add depth to it. I agree with Peters. When the Sabres have injuries as is to be expected they end up struggling because there is so little depth. Harry Neale on WGR stated that the team is at least a couple of years from being a serious team. If that is the case it might be a better strategy to bolster the overall roster with the cap money instead of dedicating too great a share to a fewer players.

You make an excellent point that a coach has to handle individual players differently. Some players need tough love while other players need soft cajoling. Vince Lombardi (a coach you cited) tried the hard ass approach with Bart Starr and it didn't work. Starr was too sensitive to handle the assaults that Lombardi was capable of. So Lombardi smartly backed off and treated him differently, i.e. more gently. The topic of this thread focuses on Mario Williams. There is no doubt that he is capable of being a tough player to coach. He certainly can be prickly and be hardheaded. It's obvious that with Rex MW wasn't very receptive to what he was being told to do. How did Rex handle this recalcitrant player who wasn't responding to him? It might be unfair to say the Mario was deliberately insubordinate to Rex but it isn't unfair to say that Mario didn't give the same level of effort that he gave under prior DCs and HC. This is a problem that required only one appropriate response from the HC: take the uncommitted assshole player off the field. Demonstrate to the player, the rest of the unit and team that he was the authority on the field whether they liked it or not. The tough talking and blustering HC didn't do that. That is an indictment on the HC's coaching ability. He couldn't handle a problem that called for only one authority figure response form him. He was in charge and he acted as weakling. In this case words are nothing but bullshiiit and actions have meaning and potency. What do you think was the message that this braggadocio HC sent to his team with his flaccid response to this jackasss player?

For anyone who went to the concert could you tell if this was mostly a local crowd or not? I know Bruce S. has a lot of devoted fans who follow his trail wherever he goes. Am I wrong in believing that more big acts are coming to Buffalo instead of avoiding the area to head up to Toronto? Just curious and would appreciate some comments and observations.

If your coach lacks it then it isn't surprising that the team lacks it.

In my view Mario was blatant in not giving full effort on many plays. Some disagree with that characterization but many believe as I do. The coaches and players watch the tape. They know what a full throttle Mario looked like on tape and they know what a passive Mario looked like on tape. As C.Biscuit astutely pointed out if was obvious that Mario was deliberately slacking off in order to demonstrate the wrongheadedness of what the coach was asking him and the unit to do. Head coaches have a responsibility to set the tone for the whole team and create the environment in which players work in. Effort and disciplinary issues are not uncommon issues that a head coach has to deal with. It is an essential element in their job. When a player is acting in an insubordinate manner then the coach has to immediately handle the problem before it affects the rest of the team. Coaches have different personalities and coaching styles. Some are more strict than others and some are more laid back than others. There is no right or wrong approach. You have to be true to who you are. Last year's team (mostly on defense) lacked discipline and intelligence. Part of the problem is that the coach and his staff (again mostly on defense) did not hold the players accountable. If Rex would have taken Mario off the field that not only would have made an emphatic statement to Mario but it also would have made a forceful statement to the rest of the team. If the best player (arguably so) was going to be held accountable then the rest of the unit would also be held accountable. This is a case where how a coach responded to a hardheaded player would have been more effective than anything he could have said. I'm not a Rex fan and never will be. Let's put aside the issue of scheme and how it fits his players. Rex being overly lenient to the point of passivity in the face of an insubordinate player is one glaring example as to why I believe he is less than a mediocre coach. And it is why that with him at the helm this team is going to continue to flounder. There might be some teasing episodes of success but it won't be sustained success. The Rex that we hired is the Rex that we got. That is why I am so exasperated with this nonsensical hiring.