JohnC

Go back and review the list you recounted. It's freaking pathetic! What's the solution that this goofball organization is going to come up with? Proudly use their first pick to draft the best DB they can find only to lose that same gem player when the second contract comes up. What's the difference between this organization and Forest Gump? Gump at least has wisdom while this organization is abjectly stupid.

I wasn't suggesting that you were comparing the two. What I was saying is that there is such a qualitative difference between the two that it is a very reasonable argument to make that a qb in the category of TT isn't warranted playing under his contract. That is not an unreasonable position to take. Is TT better than other options at the position? Who gives a dam? What does it mean? Continuous mediocrity? I'm not fretting over whether he stays or goes as many are. That isn't a meaningful issue for me. The critical issue for me is who is going to be the next qb/prospect? Why is this pathetic front office so passive and oblivious on the qb issue? How does an organization go twenty years without a legitimate franchise qb? That's where my concerns are. I used to be a Whaley supporter. The well is now dry. I have had enough of this clown operation. As you pointed out this organization is structured and staffed in such a mediocre fashion that it is built to be a little better than mediocre. My frustration with this organization goes beyond its record. It goes to how it is run. It seems incapable of learning from how other winning teams function. It comfortably regresses to the archaic past to function in a fast paced world of change. You don't have to be a football maven to recognize how out of its league this front office is. That's so sad.

I'm not declaring the situation a disaster. Has Murray made mistakes? Of course. Any GM who makes a lot of deals and personnel decisions is not going to have all of them working out in his favor. Murray gave up a first round pick to Ottawa for Lehner, a goalie they didn't even want to keep. The first round pick was used for one of the top prospects in the league. The Kulikov deal certainly hasn't work out. The biggest miscalculation the GM made was how he stocked his blue line. He was basically trying to buy time with declining veteran players who were past the point of expiring. So unquestionably that is on him, Entering the season the Sabres were considered a fringe wild-card contending team. That is exactly what they are. What has magnified the frustration over the rebuild is that Toronto, who was considered behind us, has catapulted ahead of us on its way to the playoffs. That gets a lot of people mad who had different expectations for these teams. The Sabres are where they are for the simple reason that they don't have enough talent. There are players in the pipeline and additional deals have to be made to rework the roster. I'm as frustrated as anyone else but in reality we are where we should be, on an upward trajectory that isn't high enough and hasn't come fast enough for most people. If one doesn't have enough patience then get off the bus and ride on another mode of transportation. That's life: Expectations not catching up to reality. If you think it is bad in the hockey world it could be worse. Buffalo Bills fans are in a much perilous position with no end in sight to their normal state of chaos and futility.

Mentioning TT in the same discussion with Drew Brees to make whatever point you want to make about TT makes little sense and offers little to the discussion. Whether Brees plays on a team that wins 4 games a year for five consecutive years doesn't tell you much how good Brees really is. Watch how he plays the position? That's where the focus of comparison between the players should be. Brees can read defenses, can make throws in the middle of the field, has impeccable accuracy, has a feel for the pocket. Now compare those categories to how TT plays. It is like comparing an adult to a child. What it comes down to for this woebegone franchise is what are your goals? What difference does it make whether you have one particular limited qb to another limited qb who is cheaper? I'm not overly concerned about the options because there isn't much difference between them. As K-9 has stated in multiple posts it's not as if TT is being judged as if this is a hypothetical theory; he is being judged on actual performances over two years. What is most telling (at least to me) is that there wasn't much progression to his game in the second season. What you see is what you get----and it isn't something to get excited about. I'm sure you are tired of me repeating what I have already stated. Whether the organization decides to keep TT or not is not really consequential. He is the caliber of qb that gets you nowhere meaningful. He is the caliber of qb who the coaches spend more time working around his limitations rather than utilizing his more positive skills. The most important issue for this organization is who is going to be the future franchise qb. Even the TT advocates acknowledge that he is simply a bridge qb at best. What does that say about the caliber of qb he is?

If you have the time this is seven minute call from Luke into WGR after the loss to the Penguins. This poor guy was so exasperated about the state of the Bills and Sabres that he called in twice, It sounded like he was brought to tears. I'm not mocking him because I applaud his passion and I share his exasperation. http://media.wgr550.com/a/118619311/caller-luke-needs-to-get-a-lot-off-his-chest-and-he-gets-two-tries-to-do-it.htm

As I said in my post if the Bills keep TT or not is not the main issue for me. He may be productive (your description) but if DW can find a cheaper option who can be just as productive then I'm not going to disagree with that reasoning. Whaley has made plenty of mistakes. You certainly are not going to get an argument from me on that issue. But whatever plentiful mistakes he has made doesn't mean that his judgment on TT relative to his cost is wrong. If Whaley wants his limited qb gone and believes that he can find a reasonable replacement then I'm not going criticize him for a decision that I understand. You and I are in accord that Whaley has to the point of irrationality not made it a priority to secure a franchise qb, mostly through the draft. It makes no sense to me. This muddling along on the most important position that determines success has me befuddled and infuriated. It's like Trump glowingly talking about Putin. It's crazy talk and behavior. I'll repeat what I said before: I don't give a dam whether TT stays or not. In the grand scheme of things it means little. The real issue is getting serious and drafting a qb who has the potential to be a franchise qb. Based on TT's performance I am not confident that he has the capacity to be what we need him to be. Enough is enough.

Will a Buffalo pro or college team in any sport be a winner? I recently got into a cab and was asked by the driver where do you want to go. I said Losersville. He turned the meter on and said Buffalo here we come.

TT is probably the best qb that we have had here in two decades. That is a testament to how ridiculously inept this organization is. What does being the best qb that we have had in a generation mean? What it doesn't automatically mean is that he is a qb that can get you anywhere meaningful. Many people criticize the coaching that he has been subjected to as if that is the cause of his limitations. It isn't. His limitations are what the coaches have to contend with and adjust the offense to. Whaley is fairly criticized for a lot of things. But he isn't dumb enough to want to move on from a qb who can bring his historically mediocre team any degree of success. The new coaching staff by now certainly has reviewed the tape on TT. What you don't hear from them is how indispensable he is and how they want to design the offense around his stunted game. They are holding out for better options not because they are impressed by him but they are holding out because they are desperately searching the tight market for a better option. I don't give a dam if the Bills retain TT or not. It means little. What I want is this pathetic organization to get a good qb prospect on the roster sooner rather than later. The Bills have not had a credible qb for two decades. The Bills have not been in the playoffs for a generation in a system designed for parity. The two situations are inextricably linked. Enough is enough.

Cousins and his agent have not complained about being tagged. That's the point.

Cousins and his agent are not complaining about the franchise tag. They are making the system work for them. With consecutive franchise tagging he is getting high end money. If the team decides to tag him again next year (which they won't) he'll gladly accept the 20% raise. Both Cousins and his agent are not squawking about the process. They have made the decision that the client/qb is not going to give the team a hometown discount. They want the Skins to pay him at the rate he would get if he was on the open market. If the organization doesn't want to give him a long term contract he will get his top rate money on a year to year basis. Last year the Skins could have signed Cousins to an Osweiller type contract. The organization said no, not yet. The organization essentially said show me what you got. And he did. The organization miscalculated by not signing him sooner, and it has proven to be costly. The player has the leverage and he is using it. It's a business and that is how the player is treating it.

The Bills have not had a franchise qb in over 20 yrs. The Bills have not made the playoffs in 18 consecutive years. The Bills have displayed a higher level of ineptitude longer than other franchises . How can you not be impressed?

Kulikov is probably going to be gone next year. As like you I didn't like the trade of Pysyk. And Bogo because of his contract is not tradeable. I watched yesterday's game and thought our defense played soundly. If they would have played at this level for most of the season this team would have had a few more points. Gorges is certainly on the downside of his career. He is a very battered player. But I have to give him credit because he plays his heart out and never folds. He is a blood and guts type player whose tank is nearly empty. But I salute him for his effort and character.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/03/03/boxer-penis-weigh-in/ Beerball wants to personally welcome you back. He is the guy on the left who is proud of the the large package he carries. He has said that at times the heavy weight is a burden to carry. But being the trooper that he is he handles it well and often. He proudly tells people that he has a good grasp of his package.

It may have something to do with exposing him for the expansion draft rather than Baptiste. Teams are manipulating their roster differently this year because of that special draft.

What personal agenda are you talking about?

EJ was a third to fourth round talent who got picked in the first round. It didn't work out. Where I disagree with you is that it is my belief that no matter how much training would have been invested in EJ it still wouldn't have worked out. But that is history. Where we both agree is that this organization needs to be more pro-active in finding a franchise qb, most likely through the draft. I strongly believe that this draft has a number of good prospects that will be available to us. I don't want another year to go by where we pass on a Carr type prospect only to see that player elevate another franchise into being a contending team. There are at least four good prospects, one of which should be available to us. Mahomes is growing on me but I'm open to the other candidates. Even if the qb is selected I prefer not rushing the qb until he is reasonably ready. But I strongly believe that we have to get the qb prospect on the roster sooner rather than later. I appreciate your thoughtful responses. That's not how I see it.

We are who we thought we are. We do what we usually do. It's so infuriating!

This link was posted by QCity on another thread. I thought it would be appropriate in this thread. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/190614-bills-scout-blasts-the-front-office/

Tell Kirby because he is not paying attention to me! You know very well that this retrograde organization is going to use their first pick on a DB. It's what we do. The cycle of futility repeats itself. Draft a DB high (Clements/Gilmore) and then when their contract expires let them go for another CB selection.

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your comments. No I don't think that he had a big say on the EJ selection. And that doesn't bother me at all. The GM and the scouting department are the segments of the organization that are immersed in evaluating the prospects. Was Marrone trying to win as many games as possible? Absolutely. That's his job. What do you want him to do work hard at losing so the team would have a better draft position? Of course not. I readily agree that Marrone rather quickly made a judgment on EJ that he was not good enough to be a franchise qb. Why was he so quick to make a conclusive assessment on him. What's obvious is obvious.That's why he was so adamant that Whaley get him a better option at qb. When all is said and done Marrone has proven to be right on his assessment of EJ. There are many warranted criticisms of the unlikable former coach but it shouldn't be for his correct assessment of EJ. Whaley belatedly had no choice but to acknowledge his mistake because it was clearly obvious to everyone who watched EJ in the games and on the practice field that he simply wasn't good enough to play in this league. My criticism of Whaley that is growing by the day is not mostly for making the EJ selection. It was a mistake that doesn't need to be continuously rehashed. My criticism is that this lumbering organization that hasn't had a franchise qb in over twenty years continues to be too passive (for me) in their pursuit of a franchise qb. Enough is enough.

EJ was a Nix selection with Whaley ranking the qbs that year. As I said in the prior post it didn't take long for Marrone to make an accurate judgment on EJ which turned out to be true. And again, as I previously stated EJ should have had a third or fourth round grade placed on him. The Bills took him in the first round. A poor decision that still hurts this troubled franchise. A fiasco is a fiasco.

The EJ selection was simply a bad selection . He was a third to a fourth round talent who was taken in the first round. There is no circumstance in which that is a smart approach to take. Their thinking that EJ was a good prospect was a poor evaluation of the player, regardless of the position he played. When Marrone became the HC he looked at what he had and immediately determined that EJ was unfit as a franchise qb. Without question he has proven to be right. To this day that bad qb selection still plagues this franchise. The Bills should not have drafted a qb in the first round in the EJ draft class. That is not the case this year. If an organization that hasn't had a franchise qb for over twenty years is too afraid to take the plunge then they should give up and pursue another field of endeavor.

Right now you want him playing on the top two lines. Jack and RO are the centers for their respective lines. (As you stated.) As a winger he still can enhance the line he plays on with his play making skills. Having him center on a third line with lesser players wouldn't be maximizing his talents. For now Bylsma is playing his best players on the top lines. That is the right approach to take. When you compare the hockey coach with Rex you are unfairly insulting him.

He thought he was upgrading the defense with the acquisition of Kulikov. He was wrong. The problem is so obvious on defense that the GM admits the dire situation is mostly on him. The GM didn't expect both Bogo and Kulikov to be so second-rate. The GM recently stated that he is going to address the defense. Next year, Guhle will be added to the mix and I see maybe another couple of defensemen brought in. Would I be willing to give up a Kane or Reinhardt to add a good defenseman? No.

Gunner, Get on board the bus is getting crowded. My position is the same as it has been for a long time: Evaluate the qb prospects and then decide on the best one for you. There comes a point that waiting for the non existent perfect prospect is a recipe for continued failure. Being cautious to the point of passivity is not a winning strategy. Enough is enough!