JohnC

No one's offering a second round pick for Tyrod Taylor in any situation. Ever. No one's offering a third round pick for Tyrod Taylor in any situation. Ever. In order for TT to remain with the team he had to take a sizeable cut in salary and reduction in the length of the contract. That's a testament to how he is viewed by the organization that employs him. What he has to offer is well known to the Bills and the rest of the league. He is a useful bridge qb, and nothing more.

I appreciate your detailed and knowledgeable response but my interpretation of the situation is much different than yours. We both agree on the Rex reign so there is no point in belaboring the obvious. Where I diverge from you is that entering into this season compared to when Rex took over I didn't see this as a playoff team. When Rex took over I agree with you that the team he inherited was on the verge of breaking the streak. But my view on this year's team is different from yours in that I didn't see this team as a playoff contending team mostly due to the damage from the Rex tornado effect. (When you hire a fraud you get a fraud.) Where I strenuously disagree with you is how we see TT as a qb. His stats aren't as illuminating as much as what the eye test reveals. He can't make the reads and he can't make the anticipatory throws. The coordinators have a very limited play book in order to accommodate his lack of vision. In the short run a qb can accumulate good stats but as time goes by teams adjust to one's weaknesses and to strengths. There was a reason why Whaley wanted him out and the wrestling coach was only willing to keep him with a much diminished contract. That certainly doesn't reflect an organization's belief that he has much of an upside. I'm not a basher. TT is a good bridge qb and he was our best option when he joined the team and even now. I'm not as down on the organization as it may seem to many. I believe that McDermott's assessment of the roster is much more realistic/accurate than Whaley's inflated view of his roster. He believed that his team was on the verge of something meaningful so he took a more patchwork approach toward the roster. In my estimation this roster was thinner than he believed it was. I also favor the more conceptual approach that McDermott has in building a roster. Make no mistake this is a rebuilding endeavor. Those people who believed entering the season that this was a playoff team had expectations that didn't match what the team was doing. The team trading down in the draft to accumulate more picks and Watkins not being tendered were clear signals that this was not a quick fix project. And I agree with that stance.

Your accurate observations about Mahomes's less than pristine mechanics were well known about him when evaluating him as a pro prospect. That's why it was clearly acknowledged by every serious scout that it was going to take time to smoothen out his mechanics. What wasn't in doubt were his raw throwing skills. They were eye popping. There is a dynamism to his passing ability that you can't teach. You either have it or not. He going to KC was a good situation for him because they already have a starter and they have a good team. That was the strategy that KC had when he was selected. The worst thing that could have happened to a raw prospect such as him was to go to a team such as Houston where there would be more pressure to play him sooner rather than develop him. Watson with different traits is more suited than Mahomes to play sooner. Too many people (not saying you) are too quick to make a conclusive judgment on a qb based on their rookie performances. Many people jumped to the conclusion that Goff was going to be a failure based on his rookie year when the team's intention was to sit him out his first year as basically a red shirt year in order to more properly prepare him. As it turned out the team played him sooner than they intended because of their dire qb situation and their team status in the standings. It is not surprising that he struggled last year. But now with a year under his belt and good coaching (McVay coached Cousins in Washington) Goff should be measurably better this year and make a quantum leap next year. If it were up to me I would have drafted Mahomes (as Whaley wanted to do) and groomed him to be our franchise qb. Although he wouldn't have been ready his rookie year the organization didn't seize the opportunity to select a talented player. That dithering approach to the qb position is why the Bills haven't had a franchise qb for a quarter century. And It's also why it has been a failure for more than a generation.

There is no doubt that there are years in which the crop for talent is thinner than normal. But over an extended period of time the talent is balanced out between good and bad and average yield years. When there are barren talent years a smart organization can work around that dry pipeline by making smart mid-level free agent acquisitions to keep the talent flowing. Hitting on lower round picks is not something an organization can count on. But doing it at a higher rate than average can also help contribute to a better roster. Looking back from the Donahoe to Levy to Nix to Whaley eras the scouting performances have been mediocre at best. Even with the recognition that finding a credible starting qb is a challenge how does an organization go through a quarter century without coming up with someone that is considered adequate? In a system designed for parity there is no excuse for this disgusting generational mediocrity.

The problem is not who is the better qb but where do draft the qb. If a fourth round talent is taken in the first round that is a bad pick, no matter what the position is. The qbs in that mediocre draft class were not first round talent.. Buffalo was the foolish organization that reached while the other qbs were taken in the range where they were ranked from a talent standpoint.

You make an excellent point about considering the depth of the draft at particular positions when making a draft decisions. Whaley was reasonable when selecting talent but lacked a vision in putting together a roster. He also had a tendency to over-rate his roster which certainly influenced how he added talent. Instead of putting so much emphasis on getting over the playoff barrier he should have been more focused on building a more well rounded roster. I don't want to belabor the point but acquiring a credible qb during his tenure would have masked much of the deficiencies that existed on the roster. He recognized the obvious too late in his tenure. And he paid the price by losing his job. With respect to the Evans and OBJ point that you made what does it matter if you have a high end receiver talent, no matter who it is, if the qb you have is sub par? If you don't have A it doesn't matter who you have at B. The talent won't come to fruition in either case. Sequencing is important especially at that dependent receiver position.

Whaley ranked the qbs in that draft class. But given that it doesn't mean that he ranked EJ as a first round value. When all is said and done what does it matter regarding who is mostly to blame for the selection? Whaley should have realized very soon that EJ was not a franchise qb and had his antenna up for a better option. He didn't. He lost his job. The fault is his. Bill, The problem is much more than about individual picks as it is about coherency and strategic planning. There was too much tactical thinking and not enough strategic thinking when building the roster. Think about this: The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter century, since the retirement of Kelly. How does that happen in a sport in which everyone acknowledges the basic fact that you have to have a functional qb to reasonably compete? It makes absolutely no sense! How can anyone take this franchise seriously when the new owners with great fanfare hire a well-known fraud such as Rex and then be surprised at the disaster he left in such a short period of time? It never ends.

I agree with you that Whaley was placed in an untenable situation with not being allowed to work with his own selected head coaches. As much criticism that Whaley has received no one can accuse him of not accommodating the head coaches with the players they wanted. Maybe to a fault he accommodated Rex but that was a problem that was foisted on him by the clueless owners. The killer criticism that he richly deserves and that ultimately sabotaged him was his inability to adequately address the qb position. His lack of aggressiveness on that issue, at least for me, is a head scratcher. Doug Marrone is not a likeable person but he was right in not tolerating the qb situation he was handed with EJ being the starter. I also do think that criticism is warranted that Doug over-estimated his roster and believed that the team was knocking on the playoff door.That was a miscalculation that resulted in him adding pieces and expending resources (Watkins deal) to put this team over the playoff hump when it still was not close to where it needed to be. What's infuriating about the Whaley departure is that he finally was willing to draft a qb in this draft with a first round pick. It was rumored that it was going to be Mahomes, but it also could have been Watkins. It was too late because he lost his authority to the wrestling coach. In my mind Whaley was right. That's not only very frustrating but so Buffalo Billzy!

Few people are denying the talent level of Watkins. That isn't the issue that people are questioning. The real issue is his value relative to price. The Bills gave up a first round pick for a player whose talents could never be maximized because of the qb situation he was going to be subjected. What made his value diminish even more is that after acquiring this scintillating talent the qb position still wasn't upgraded to take advantage of his impressive skills. That's the point that you continue to turn a blind eye to. Teams frequently trade down in draft giving up the opportunity to select higher rated talent in order to get more lesser talents. That isn't a bad strategy for a team that is very thin, such as the Bills. It makes more sense for a team like Atlanta with a high caliber qb such as Mat Ryan to give up a lot to draft a Julio Jones. It makes less sense for the Bills to take the same approach to select Watkins when there was, and still is, such a deficit at qb. That's the point many people are making in this discussion. When all is said and done look at the end result on this Watkins topic? He's gone! A little more forethought by this chaotic organization could have avoided this situation.

When discussing the Bills it is futile to talk about player roles and values because there has been so much tumult within the organization. The almost annual change in schemes, coaches and philosophy is like trying to thread a needle while being in a small boat in the ocean while being battered by a hurricane. Going back to the Ragland discussion his selection was a reasonable pick for a Rex defense. It is apparently a mismatch for the MdDermott defense. The Watkins selection from a talent standpoint was reasonable. The circumstance that he was drafted into made his pick very questionable because of the qb situation at the time and even more ridiculous the qb situation that continued to fester after his selection. The issue I brought up in the prior post had to do with the instability within the organization that made the evaluation of players for this tumultuous organization so much more complicated and difficult.

Too many people make an instant analysis on rookie qbs. It takes time to develop and adapt to the pro game. The top drafted qbs usually go to bad teams. That has to factor in with the rate of their development. When the Rams drafted Goff their intention was to mostly sit him out his rookie year and groom him in a less pressurized manner. They felt that they were forced to play him last year because their team was out of the running and they felt the need to pacify an agitated fan base. It's not surprising that he struggled. Goff is going to improve this year but next year he is more likely to make a quantum leap forward. The Bills strategy of waiting for the 2018 season when they believed there were better qb prospects is not a guarantee. There is a good chance that the qbs available in the draft won't be better than the prospects available in the last draft, Mahomes and Watkins. That's an argument for getting your qb prospect in your pipeline sooner rather than later so the development process can be started. The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter century, since the retirement of Kelly. Their passivity on addressing that position is not only perplexing but simply weird. It makes no sense. Their philosophy is when you got nothing just keep waiting and watch the others pass you by. It makes no sense.

I agree with your take. Finally there is a sense of having a plan and a direction. This year is going to be rough. But it was going to be a muddle along season if the players who were dealt were instead kept on the roster. If it turns out that the Bills could end up in position to draft a high end qb prospect without trading away too many picks then those added picks can be used to add an infusion of talent to this very thin roster.

I don't understand your reasoning and your take on the drafting of players. What difference does it make how shallow the knowledge of the fans are of college prospects and pro players. It is outright irrelevant. Do you want to know what is relevant? The competency of the organization that one cheers for. How is this bedraggled franchise doing? It hasn't been in the playoffs for more than a generation. On top of that pathetic record it hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter century, since the retirement of Kelly. With only superficial knowledge on players and prospects one can still make a fair judgment that this lame organization for much of its history has been inept. If you want to disagree with this obvious point then I will politely point out not only its mediocre record but its consistly unentertaining level of play. You don't have to be a football guru to recognize mediocrity. Just trust your eyes and examine the record. It's not like being a top chef who is judging a cooking contest or an ice skating competition where subjectivity is an inherent and unavoidable aspect to the evaluation. There is a simplicity when judging a pro football team: What's the record? Even for dullards like me I can know the difference between wretched mediocrity and excellence. It's really not too difficult to do.

He was a high pick who won't be able to play at a high level for this particular defensive system in which he calls for skills and attributes he doesn't have. It's like a nose tackle who is suited for a particular line alignment and not for a conventional 4/3 alignment. Mario Williams was a demon when used properly but was ineffective in Rex's system. (Not excusing Mario's seditious conduct.) There are CBs that are good cover DBs but aren't suited for zone coverage. Different attributes and skill sets. There are different skill sets for inside receivers and outside receivers. I'm not suggesting that there is always a mutual exclusion in different systems but getting the right fit between a type of player and a system is important.

I don't disagree that the EJ pick was a Nix decision. But that doesn't change the fact that Whaley expended valuable resources for a top shelf receiver when he didn't have the caliber of qb in place to utilize the receiver's talents. Even after the selection it should have been a priority to address the most important priority, the qb position. That failure was the biggest reason why he wasn't as successful as he should have been, and why he lost his job. I have never been a big basher of Whaley. However, he didn't do what he needed to do to upgrade that position in order to have a reasonable chance to seriously compete. The stark ugly truth for this middling franchise is that it hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb for a quarter of a century, since the retirement of Kelly. That is a disgrace and an embarrassment!

It's not a question of coaching a young player up or not. The issue is the defensive system now in place. In Rex's 3/4 alignment Ragland was suited for that particular defense. He was an inside backer who focused on the running game. In the wrestling coach's defensive scheme his scheme for LBs is to be less big thumpers and more able to cover and be quicker in order to cover. That's not Rag's strength.

EJ Manuel was a fourth round talent drafted in the first round by an inept organization. I have always acknowledged Watkins exceptional talents. But the strategy Whaley used when giving up so much to select such a talented receiver was half-arsed backwards. Atlanta gave up a lot to move up to select Julio Jones because they had a qb who was capable of maximizing his talents. The smarter approach for Whaley to have taken in a draft class rich with receivers was to have in place a qb who was capable of exploiting the talents of a receiver before expending valuable future resources to get that player. As it stands Watkins copious talents were squandered in Buffalo. In an interview shortly after he was fired he was asked what he would do differently if he could do it all over again. He said that he would have been more aggressive in finding a qb. Give me a freaking break! Forrest Gump could have figured that out.

The Ragland pick was a legacy of the Rex debacle. The disastrous short stint by the cartoonish Rex is due to the foolishness of the new owners. In two short years the loud HC sent this franchise back by four years. Not only were the two years he coached a waste but also it is going to take two years to clean out the mess he brought. Ragland is a victim of circumstances. He was drafted for a team that now he is not suited for. In a sense he is a victim of organizational ineptitude. By next year I see him on another roster.

I wish the forward looking view would have started with last year's draft! Seizing opportunities when available is better than waiting for opportunities that may not materialize.

KC and Houston both gave up draft picks to draft qbs that they considered were good prospects. So far Watson and Mahomes have showed that they have potential to be franchise qbs. Will this happen right away? No. Are there guarantees that they will have successful careers? No. What both franchises can reasonably claim is that they now have good prospects in the pipeline that in the not too distant future should be their franchise qbs. Compare that to the Bills situation. The Bills are a franchise that over the past quarter century, since the retirement of Kelly, has not found a franchise qb through the draft, trade or free agency that can be described as a franchise qb. Because of this irrational reluctance to be pro-active in securing the qb position it is one of the primary reasons why this franchise has failed for more than one full generation. The Bills have had many chances to draft a franchise qb. For the most part they passed on reasonable opportunities. That is why until this issue is addressed the ignominious streak will continue this season and the foreseeable future. What I can say for sure is that dithering is not a solution, it is the problem.

It doesn't matter how many play books he has to absorb. The sabotaging elements to his game are his own limitations. When you are not consistently accurate with the short and medium routes and you have clearly demonstrated an inability to make anticipatory throws then you are dealing with killer flaws that can't be overcome. The telling truth is that the different OCs he has played under all have had to dumb down their respective playbooks to accommodate his inherent flaws. I'm not a TT basher. He's the best that we have right now. However, it is doubtful that he is going to be our long-term qb. I'll make a prediction that by the end of the season when the Bills will predictably out of the playoff running Peterman will be getting the starting assignment.

The last sentence in your post is the unappealing truth that many people refuse to accept. This team in bulk lacks the talent to be a serious team. What did anyone expect from an organization that couldn't find a credible franchise qb in over a quarter century? In your last post you nailed the core problem that goes beyond the qb position i.e. a general lack of talent and an again adjusting of the roster to fit another change in scheme. The people who believe that this team taken over by the new regime was close to being a playoff team are not being realistic. This is a rebuild while attempting to be competitive and respectable. Beane/McDermott, especially Beane, have clearly stated that this rebuild is going to be done primarily through the draft. It's going to take at least four years (my opinion). Some people find that reality hard to take. The truth whether it is ugly or not is simply the truth.

With respect to the highlighted segment you need to face the harsh reality that the team that Whaley left is not now or ever would be a playoff team. Doug Whaley took a patchwork approach of staffing a roster as if it were on the verge of qualifying for a wild-card spot. That approach hasn't worked and will never work. Striving to be a little better than average for the sake of vying for a fringe playoff spot is simply investing in perpetual mediocrity. You and many others are resistant to the arduous task of rebuilding a flawed roster that could never be rehabilitated into being a serious team. The shame of this exasperating repetitive starting over again is that it is happening because of the absurdly stupid hiring of Rex by the clueless new owners. Because of that foolish hire two years were wasted during his tenure and another two years will be needed to clean up the mess he left in order to get back to the starting gate. If you can't handle that reality that is your problem! The Beane/McDermott tandem have mapped out a strategy for everyone to see. There is no hidden agenda here. Many people refuse to accept what is actually going on. The new regime is going to rebuild the roster primarily through the draft. Why do you think they are accumulating so many draft picks? Beane has publicly stated the primary method of the rebuild is through the draft. Why can't you and many fretful others accept his clear comments at face value? In the grand scheme of things the Watkins deal is going to be insignificant because it is going to take at least four years before this team will be participants in the playoffs. If you can't handle that hard reality then that's your problem.

I want you to know I always appreciate your commentary. Although on this issue we are riding on different buses and taking different routes.

He wasn't tagged. That's a fact! You can disagree with their not tendering but they made a decision not to. That is an indication that he wasn't in their plans. I believe that the new regime came in with a strategy of rebuilding the roster and undoing the work of Whaley and Rex. In my view they are at least three years away from being a playoff team. This is what happens when you haven't had a franchise qb for a quarter century, and this is what happens when you take a patchwork approach building a roster for the sake of striving to be a fringe playoff team. The primary method of accomplishing this endeavor is through the draft. So don't be surprised when assets are sold off for picks.